Rando

Downshifting when coming to a stop is a waste of time/effort/gas/clutch. How many times in my life have I needed to be in gear to avoid an accident that I probably would never see coming? 0

If I'm in 5th and slowing for a stop light I'll put the clutch in but stay in gear. If I need to be in gear I can shift it to where I need to be.

I do however downshift and stay in gear while on a motorcycle. I'm less likely to survive someone rear ending me at a stoplight.

Marcin K.

A lot of it is up to you as a driver, and your personal driving style. Keeping the car in higher gear will give you the best fuel economy, but you'll sacrifice your ability to accelerate. In general here is my advice for clutch friendly operation:
1) Be quick and deliberate with the shifts. Don't keep the clutch pressed in or drag the pedal after you shifted.
2) Know your gear, and plan ahead so you don't have to shift, then shift again
3) Rev-match when downshifting. It's an art and it does take some practice. But it will make it easier on the clutch.
4) Nothing wrong with occasional coasting in neutral. But the better you get as a driver, you'll find yourself using neutral less and less.

And as others have said, practice makes perfect. Clutch is your friend. For the first few months depress the clutch all the way when shifting. Later on you won't need to.

Marcin K.

I respectfully disagree. Sure, you don't have to downshift. But in modern engines when you're using engine braking you use 0 gas. The momentum of the car is turning the wheels, which turn the transmission and turns the engine. There is absolutely no gas being injected into the engine until you're moving slower. It's a far more efficient way to slow down your car.
You can just use the brakes in neutral with and achieve the same thing, but using the gearbox properly gives you more control of your vehicle.

GRN 5OH

I have almost 15 years of manual driving experience so take my advice for what it's worth...

I rarely ever have to use the gas when starting off from a stop. With a very smooth release, I can get the car moving while minimizing any wear on the clutch. I almost always start in 1st because 2nd requires more clutch slip which means more wear. Lately I've been changing gears in a 1-3-5 fashion to further reduce wear on the clutch. Whenever I am approaching a stop I always keep the car in gear to help slow the car down along with the some braking. Luckily I have never had any transmission problems with any of my cars so I must be doing something right.

mfc133

I do the 1-3-5 thing too! It helps a lot with fuel mileage. With the 3.73s it doesn't even really lug the engine.

Krohn

Since my last manual cars were low torque cars, I've learned I barely need any gas (rpms) to get going. I literately just slightly let off the clutch with feathered throttle and it smoothly moves. (I've always driven by the policy, you should always be able to drive a manual as if a blind guy next to you would think it's an automatic or as if there's an open coke bottle standing on the floorboard)

To add to the clutch/brake dispute...
If anyone here honestly thought someone was in favor of downshifting (abruptly) on icey or slick roads, seriously?
Downshifting is fine, braking is fine. Both have their place.

As for me, I prefer burble and control.

And in my 9 years of driving (yes, not many), I have had to get hard on the throttle a couple times to avoid being rear-ended or t-boned.

You've driven manual before, and you're REALLY going to love driving this one! Cake-walk.

Ltngdrvr

I see the OP has not chimed back in on this thread, guess he didn't realize that a thread like this is always going to start a controversy.

Hope I'm never around any of you neutral coasters as I drive around the country for my job...

Whiplash78

I kind of feel like the kid playing with matches, who ends up setting the house on fire. Run - in the opposite direction.

All kidding aside, I appreciate all the useful information, and there's a lot of it. I'm a DIY guy when it comes to car repair and I find it A LOT easier to replace brake pads than a transmission, so tips like everyone has provided are always helpful.

houtex

What this gets down to, kiddos, is this:

KNOW YOUR CAR. KNOW HOW TO DRIVE IT. AT ALL TIMES.

All these pieces of advice are good AND bad, and it boils down to situational awareness and situational needs. If you don't know, and I mean **know** your car and how it works, responds, how to drive it well... all these points of advice don't mean squat.

Go practice with your car. Get your gear selection where it's smooth and you can do it without thought. Figure out your friction zone. Take corners and learn where you can and can't go with the car (in a safe, alone environment, say, an intersection where *nobody* is around...) And figure out where your blind spots are and compensate. Never know when that'll be handy to get out of a tight spot.

Basically, if you are 'one' with your car, you will automatically know how to drive it and what to do in all circumstances. This will include clutch saving moves that become rather automatic because you're doing it right in the first place.

If you *really* want to know how to use a clutch, go take a BRC motorcycle class. They start with the duck walk, and work their way up. This includes how a clutch works, and it applies to all vehicles, not just a motorcycle. I learned quite a bit in '08. I only *thought* I knew how a clutch worked, but that one lesson made me a better manual transmission driver, I tell you.

And all that huey about saving clutches/brakes? Yeah. They're wear items. Brakes are easier than the clutch. Unless it's going to be absolutely required, if you can save the clutch, fine, but seriously... don't even think about bothering with that whole idea. Drive the car, drive it well. The rest will take care of itself automatically.

/Same adage as an airplane pilot: FLY THE FREAKIN' PLANE, and FLY IT RIGHT.
//See Asiana Air 214. Basically, the pilot didn't fly that plane right, unfortunately.
///Let us not turn this into a discussion of that... just pointing out an analogy.

exchallenger

I'm somewhat surprised that somebody would actually put the car in neutral and coast. I've been driving standard transmission cars exclusively for 40 years and I only rarely put my car in neutral at stoplights. My car is always in gear because I want to be able to move immediately, at any speed, if I need to. It is a safety issue. You can get yourself killed trying to save your brakes/clutch. They're just not worth that much to me.

max5ive0

Keep your wheels clean of brake dust. Rev-match to shift so you arent slipping the clutch as much and engine-brake everywhere (except slippery conditions). This business of driving in neutral is simple. It reduces your ability to maneuver, period!

Stevedotmil

I have been driving RWD/manual cars since I started driving a long time ago. Snow/rain/dry/ice all the fundamentals that have been talked about apply. It's all in your driving style and how YOU drive YOUR car. I have used engine braking to slow myself on a downhill covered in snow with ice underneath and didn't have an issue but I know how to heel/toe which takes a TON of practice doing it correctly. Knowing your gears and speeds to be in is essential. I can heel/toe by ear and feel now.

I have to add that I took the helper spring off the clutch after installing a Barton shifter and I can feel the take up a lot better now than before. More effort but the mechanical feeling and certainty that it's hitting the correct gear every time is worth the effort.

I almost always hit neutral when I'm almost stopped (5mph) and then hit 2nd. I have started out in 3rd while heading downhill from a stop numerous times and the revs stay above 1K easing off. Just me though and I don't really care about clutch wear. It's a Muscle Car for criminy sakes.

kylerohde

I said this before but it applies here too - there's a third option between downshifting and rolling in neutral and that's just backing off the throttle and letting the engine brake, in whatever gear you're in. For example, I have to drive over a pretty steep hill to get to and from the highway on the way home. 45 MPH standard speed limit. On a snowy day, I can have the car in 3rd coming over that hill going 35-40 and back off the throttle before I start descending. The engine braking will likely have me down to 20-25 MPH at the bottom even if I never used the brakes, so I can use the brakes a lot less, making it less likely that I'll slide.

I'm guessing most of you guys do that too but it's been kinda left out here. And OP, I'm guessing you know all this anyway since you haven't responded and have driven stick extensively in the past.

Tony Alonso

That is exactly what I would do in that situation.

At the end of that hill, if I had to come to a stop, I would further let the speed come down and then shift into neutral at a speed of about 10 mph, then slowly and lightly apply the brake.

The whole shifting into neutral discussion has been interesting. As posted above, "It's all in your driving style and how YOU drive YOUR car."

Street driving and the wear it incurs will most likely result in much less stress on the clutch, as compared to doing a drag racing launch by dumping the clutch with drag radials at a sticky track surface. Of course, I suspect the drag racers might come in and refute this

dave07

If you are not engine braking in the snow, you are doing it wrong. As long as the engine braking is not abrupt (as with any input in the snow) you will be fine.

Also, engine braking save gas. Watch your AFR gauge lean out when you are engine braking. No fuel is being used. If you coast in neutral the AFR gauge will be at stoich.

max5ive0

I have to disagree now that ABS is a factor. 20 years ago you would be right, but now cars are so smart when driving in slippery situations that I think you are better off using those systems.

db2797

Exactly Tony and a good point. I guess I can say that my driving style has probably come about living straight in the snowbelt in a top 5 snowiest city in the US.

So, I've found a style that has kept me safe with daily driving on the most possibly horrible roads. And I haven't had an accident in 20 years since my first winter driving. I learned the hard way going into 2 ditches that first winter lol. And I even have daily driven this Mustang through 3 winters now. I love driving in my Mustang going by 4 wheel drive vehicles in ditches on snowy days. That's a hard lesson that even 4-wheel drive vehicles learn is that while AWD or 4 wheel drive is extremely helpful when accelerating, it's not such the best aid when braking in snow, ice, sleet, rain.

But your point is spot on. Everybody has to do what they feel is safest and best for them. And if a particular driving style doesn't feel right, don't let all the internet "experts" tell them how to drive.

db2797

Yep...agreed ABS is your best bet when in a situation like this. There's no point in fighting what is already a great system and throwing it off balance.

AzPete

Floor it from the light, dump the clutch, keep the rpms up high, shift hard enough to bark the tires.......down shift and listen to the pipes.....beat everybody to the next light....repeat.....and expect 12 mpg or less, tons of fun, and special red and blue lights to escort you eventually.

Just joking....but one does have to have fun once in a while....all this talk of easy starts and soft shifting sounds like no one has fun.

max5ive0

Well said!