Car and Driver Feb 09 article
12/29/08, 02:24 PM
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Car and Driver Feb 09 article
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/mustang_shelby_central/2010_ford_mustang_gt_first_drive_review/(page)/1
Good article. What this online version misses is the side comments by the other reviewing journalists.
As for any 2010 detractors, they should read the Nissan 370Z review also, where they say, and I'm paraphrasing here,"Nissan has wisely moved to a continuous improvement of the car, something other car companies have done- see Porsche 911, and where other companies should take notice."
I think this is exactly what Ford has done with the 2010, especially based on the driving impressions above. And just so we don't feel left out, owners of the current 350Z and 911 aren't 100% thrilled with their rear end designs. It is the curse of redesigning a car so loved by its current owners- whatever you do to update it, make it more relevant to upcoming competition, or more modern design will be met with some distaste by the current owners.
For me, the improvements to the suspension, ride, handling, interior, and feeling of solidity are worth the 2010 upgrade. Of course, I do love the tailamps.
Good article. What this online version misses is the side comments by the other reviewing journalists.
As for any 2010 detractors, they should read the Nissan 370Z review also, where they say, and I'm paraphrasing here,"Nissan has wisely moved to a continuous improvement of the car, something other car companies have done- see Porsche 911, and where other companies should take notice."
I think this is exactly what Ford has done with the 2010, especially based on the driving impressions above. And just so we don't feel left out, owners of the current 350Z and 911 aren't 100% thrilled with their rear end designs. It is the curse of redesigning a car so loved by its current owners- whatever you do to update it, make it more relevant to upcoming competition, or more modern design will be met with some distaste by the current owners.
For me, the improvements to the suspension, ride, handling, interior, and feeling of solidity are worth the 2010 upgrade. Of course, I do love the tailamps.
12/29/08, 05:36 PM
#2
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
404 Error
http://www.caranddriver.com/404.php
This link seems to work
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review
http://www.caranddriver.com/404.php
This link seems to work
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/mustang_shelby_central/2010_ford_mustang_gt_first_drive_review/(page)/1
Good article. What this online version misses is the side comments by the other reviewing journalists.
As for any 2010 detractors, they should read the Nissan 370Z review also, where they say, and I'm paraphrasing here,"Nissan has wisely moved to a continuous improvement of the car, something other car companies have done- see Porsche 911, and where other companies should take notice."
I think this is exactly what Ford has done with the 2010, especially based on the driving impressions above. And just so we don't feel left out, owners of the current 350Z and 911 aren't 100% thrilled with their rear end designs. It is the curse of redesigning a car so loved by its current owners- whatever you do to update it, make it more relevant to upcoming competition, or more modern design will be met with some distaste by the current owners.
For me, the improvements to the suspension, ride, handling, interior, and feeling of solidity are worth the 2010 upgrade. Of course, I do love the tailamps.
Good article. What this online version misses is the side comments by the other reviewing journalists.
As for any 2010 detractors, they should read the Nissan 370Z review also, where they say, and I'm paraphrasing here,"Nissan has wisely moved to a continuous improvement of the car, something other car companies have done- see Porsche 911, and where other companies should take notice."
I think this is exactly what Ford has done with the 2010, especially based on the driving impressions above. And just so we don't feel left out, owners of the current 350Z and 911 aren't 100% thrilled with their rear end designs. It is the curse of redesigning a car so loved by its current owners- whatever you do to update it, make it more relevant to upcoming competition, or more modern design will be met with some distaste by the current owners.
For me, the improvements to the suspension, ride, handling, interior, and feeling of solidity are worth the 2010 upgrade. Of course, I do love the tailamps.
Last edited by Falchion; 12/29/08 at 05:39 PM.
12/31/08, 06:05 AM
#6
Cobra R Member
You are correct, along with moving the windshield washer nozzles under the back edge of the hood, re-shaping the mirrors, and re-designing the window weather stripping, moving the antenna to the rear fender reduced audible wind noise inside the car. 
1/7/09, 06:06 AM
#7
Legacy TMS Member
Continuous improvement has been the reason why foreign automakers are taking away the domestic automakers' market share. The 2010 Mustang doesn't really offer anything new, just slight revisions. In addition, the 2010 isn't really continuous improvement. What Ford did was introduce the S197 in 2004 for MY05, then introduce improvements for the S197 in 2009 for MY10. What happened in-between? We still have the fuel tank, battery drain, water leakage, fading steering wheel logo, and dash rattles/creaks issues. Continuous improvement in the S197 would have been to release incremental changes with each MY, like LED tail lights for MY06, projector HID head lights for MY07, new cold air intake for MY08, etc... and not just limit the changes to certain special edition trims or special option packages.
Did anyone else notice the sound induction tube on the 2010 Mustang? It seems kind of ricer-rific to transmit NVH into the cabin to give the driver/passengers the impression the engine is louder than in reality. OEM's usually spend lots of money to reduce and isolate NVH from the cabin.
Did anyone else notice the sound induction tube on the 2010 Mustang? It seems kind of ricer-rific to transmit NVH into the cabin to give the driver/passengers the impression the engine is louder than in reality. OEM's usually spend lots of money to reduce and isolate NVH from the cabin.
Last edited by metroplex; 1/7/09 at 09:12 AM.
1/7/09, 09:22 AM
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I agree with the concept of continual improvement of an established model. My one gripe would be that Ford did not improve the '10 Stang enough and certainly no where near what Nissan did with the 370Z over the 350Z. What Ford did is mostly pretty good (with a few exceptions), they just didn't do enough with essentially carry over chassis and drive trains (with minor tuning changes), IMHO.
Ford will, apparently, dribble out some engine upgrades (TT3.5?, 5.0), which will certainly be great, but how's it that Nissan was able to far more substantially upgrade the 370Z from stem to stern all in one fell swoop?
That all said, the '10 does appear to be clearly better, if not exactly a stunning step forward in any real way.
Ford will, apparently, dribble out some engine upgrades (TT3.5?, 5.0), which will certainly be great, but how's it that Nissan was able to far more substantially upgrade the 370Z from stem to stern all in one fell swoop?
That all said, the '10 does appear to be clearly better, if not exactly a stunning step forward in any real way.
1/7/09, 09:26 AM
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Did anyone else notice the sound induction tube on the 2010 Mustang? It seems kind of ricer-rific to transmit NVH into the cabin to give the driver/passengers the impression the engine is louder than in reality. OEM's usually spend lots of money to reduce and isolate NVH from the cabin.
1/7/09, 12:09 PM
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Did anyone else notice the sound induction tube on the 2010 Mustang? It seems kind of ricer-rific to transmit NVH into the cabin to give the driver/passengers the impression the engine is louder than in reality. OEM's usually spend lots of money to reduce and isolate NVH from the cabin.
Now we don't have to annoy the rest of the world who doesn't appreciate the sound of an engine, with our engine. We can just listen to the increased sound coming through the tube.. alot less ricer-ish than getting a 0-performance aftermarket muffler that EVERYONE has to listen to.
1/7/09, 12:25 PM
#12
Cobra R Member
Continuous improvement has been the reason why foreign automakers are taking away the domestic automakers' market share. The 2010 Mustang doesn't really offer anything new, just slight revisions. In addition, the 2010 isn't really continuous improvement. What Ford did was introduce the S197 in 2004 for MY05, then introduce improvements for the S197 in 2009 for MY10. What happened in-between? We still have the fuel tank, battery drain, water leakage, fading steering wheel logo, and dash rattles/creaks issues. Continuous improvement in the S197 would have been to release incremental changes with each MY, like LED tail lights for MY06, projector HID head lights for MY07, new cold air intake for MY08, etc... and not just limit the changes to certain special edition trims or special option packages.
Did anyone else notice the sound induction tube on the 2010 Mustang? It seems kind of ricer-rific to transmit NVH into the cabin to give the driver/passengers the impression the engine is louder than in reality. OEM's usually spend lots of money to reduce and isolate NVH from the cabin.
Did anyone else notice the sound induction tube on the 2010 Mustang? It seems kind of ricer-rific to transmit NVH into the cabin to give the driver/passengers the impression the engine is louder than in reality. OEM's usually spend lots of money to reduce and isolate NVH from the cabin.
For the 2010 Ford changed Every Exterior panel of the body except the Roof, which they didn't change since they had just re-engineered it for that Glass Roof. They changed the body for reasons other than just looks as well. While the styling needed to freshened to keep the Mustang Viable in the Marketplace, they took the time to Improve things such as overall Aerodynamics by 7 percent, and reducing Front End Lift by 23 percent. Both very impressive gains using the same basic platform as the previous model.
They Did Spend Time and Money, adding better sound insulation to reduce Unwanted Noise, coming from road, wind, and engine noise. Taking things as small as the windshield washer nozzles and moving them under the edge of the hood, moving the antenna to the rear, reshaping the side view mirrors, and improving the Weather Stripping for the door glass to improve wind noise, and probably help with leaks too if there were any. That is the also the reason they added the Intake Sound Tube, to give the Driver/Mustang Enthusiast the sounds they Do Want To Hear, while greatly reducing the amount of Unwanted NVH.
They re-tuned the suspension using things they learned from those Special Editions, and more expensive models such as the Shelby GT-500 to improve the Ride and Driving Characteristics of All Models including the Base V6. They added Stability Control, and made Traction Control standard across the board. On top of that they now Offer for a reasonable price options to even better improve Ride and Braking, above what was already their best effort to date, not just being happy to upgrade the 2010 to the levels of the 08 Bullitt.
They answered the issue of Dash Squeaks and Rattles by making the Entire Dash One Piece and improving it's quality and materials in the process, as well as improving the aluminum trim on the dash, and replacing Steering wheel Logo you complained about fading, with a new Aluminum Piece that won't fade. They also added Stereo and Climate Controls to the Wheel for better user interface. Not to rest on their laurels, they also enlarged and improved the Navigation system and added SYNC to make it safer to use your Cell Phone while driving without having to take your hands off the wheel while talking or dialing.
For the LED Tail light issue, Ford added it to the Mustang when the technology became available. This is not the LED technology that everyone thinks of when you say LED. It is a New Technology developed to make LED Lighting Cheaper and Easier to Repair and Replace than the current LED Tail lights used on many High End vehicles, which consist of Multiple Small LED's mounted In Rows, which require cutting and soldering to replace a burned out or damaged LED. The 2010 Mustangs LED's are Fully Plug and Play, which means if one burns out or is damaged, You can replace it your self, just as you have always done with conventional Incandescent Bulbs.
I will admit that during the 70's and 80's American Quality and Reliability fell way behind, because we got so full of our selves that we thought we didn't need to keep up or improve our products, but that simply is not true anymore. The REAL REASON why foreign automakers are taking away the domestic automakers market share is because people are brainwashed into believing that American Cars aren't as good, which is a load of crap. People Keep Perpetuating This by constantly Downing Our Selves and Buying Their Products, with the exception of Gobbling Up Inefficient Vehicles like Trucks and SUV's which have taken away our focus from our mainstream automotive products. They aren't Taking Anything! We're Giving It To Them Freely. But not without a Fight!
Just check out the Cover Story in the Feb 09 Issue of Car and Driver "Can Detroit Build A Better Hybrid" Guess who came It First Place, over GM, Nissan, and Even Toyota....That's Right, the 2010 Ford Fusion! Take That Toyota!
Last edited by TampaBear67; 1/7/09 at 12:56 PM.
1/7/09, 12:56 PM
#13
Cobra R Member
I agree with the concept of continual improvement of an established model. My one gripe would be that Ford did not improve the '10 Stang enough and certainly no where near what Nissan did with the 370Z over the 350Z. What Ford did is mostly pretty good (with a few exceptions), they just didn't do enough with essentially carry over chassis and drive trains (with minor tuning changes), IMHO.
Ford will, apparently, dribble out some engine upgrades (TT3.5?, 5.0), which will certainly be great, but how's it that Nissan was able to far more substantially upgrade the 370Z from stem to stern all in one fell swoop?
That all said, the '10 does appear to be clearly better, if not exactly a stunning step forward in any real way.
Ford will, apparently, dribble out some engine upgrades (TT3.5?, 5.0), which will certainly be great, but how's it that Nissan was able to far more substantially upgrade the 370Z from stem to stern all in one fell swoop?
That all said, the '10 does appear to be clearly better, if not exactly a stunning step forward in any real way.
1/7/09, 01:51 PM
#14
1/7/09, 02:05 PM
#15
Cobra R Member
Ed, I started a whole thread on the updated Website last week with a narrative and review I made about the updated segments.
Check It Out.
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=476202
Check It Out.
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=476202
1/7/09, 02:09 PM
#16
Legacy TMS Member
Ford HAS made incremental changes to the S-197 over the last 4 years. HID Lights were added to the option list in 07, as was an In Dash Navigation Stereo, and the interior accent lighting package. For 08 they re-engineered the roof structure and added the Glass Roof, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Mustang is the first American Car to offer a Full Glass Roof. There have also been other changes to things you can't see such as electronics etc.
For the 2010 Ford changed Every Exterior panel of the body except the Roof, which they didn't change since they had just re-engineered it for that Glass Roof. They changed the body for reasons other than just looks as well. While the styling needed to freshened to keep the Mustang Viable in the Marketplace, they took the time to Improve things such as overall Aerodynamics by 7 percent, and reducing Front End Lift by 23 percent. Both very impressive gains using the same basic platform as the previous model.
They Did Spend Time and Money, adding better sound insulation to reduce Unwanted Noise, coming from road, wind, and engine noise. Taking things as small as the windshield washer nozzles and moving them under the edge of the hood, moving the antenna to the rear, reshaping the side view mirrors, and improving the Weather Stripping for the door glass to improve wind noise, and probably help with leaks too if there were any. That is the also the reason they added the Intake Sound Tube, to give the Driver/Mustang Enthusiast the sounds they Do Want To Hear, while greatly reducing the amount of Unwanted NVH.
They re-tuned the suspension using things they learned from those Special Editions, and more expensive models such as the Shelby GT-500 to improve the Ride and Driving Characteristics of All Models including the Base V6. They added Stability Control, and made Traction Control standard across the board. On top of that they now Offer for a reasonable price options to even better improve Ride and Braking, above what was already their best effort to date, not just being happy to upgrade the 2010 to the levels of the 08 Bullitt.
They answered the issue of Dash Squeaks and Rattles by making the Entire Dash One Piece and improving it's quality and materials in the process, as well as improving the aluminum trim on the dash, and replacing Steering wheel Logo you complained about fading, with a new Aluminum Piece that won't fade. They also added Stereo and Climate Controls to the Wheel for better user interface. Not to rest on their laurels, they also enlarged and improved the Navigation system and added SYNC to make it safer to use your Cell Phone while driving without having to take your hands off the wheel while talking or dialing.
For the LED Tail light issue, Ford added it to the Mustang when the technology became available. This is not the LED technology that everyone thinks of when you say LED. It is a New Technology developed to make LED Lighting Cheaper and Easier to Repair and Replace than the current LED Tail lights used on many High End vehicles, which consist of Multiple Small LED's mounted In Rows, which require cutting and soldering to replace a burned out or damaged LED. The 2010 Mustangs LED's are Fully Plug and Play, which means if one burns out or is damaged, You can replace it your self, just as you have always done with conventional Incandescent Bulbs.
I will admit that during the 70's and 80's American Quality and Reliability fell way behind, because we got so full of our selves that we thought we didn't need to keep up or improve our products, but that simply is not true anymore. The REAL REASON why foreign automakers are taking away the domestic automakers market share is because people are brainwashed into believing that American Cars aren't as good, which is a load of crap. People Keep Perpetuating This by constantly Downing Our Selves and Buying Their Products, with the exception of Gobbling Up Inefficient Vehicles like Trucks and SUV's which have taken away our focus from our mainstream automotive products. They aren't Taking Anything! We're Giving It To Them Freely. But not without a Fight!
Just check out the Cover Story in the Feb 09 Issue of Car and Driver "Can Detroit Build A Better Hybrid" Guess who came It First Place, over GM, Nissan, and Even Toyota....That's Right, the 2010 Ford Fusion! Take That Toyota!
For the 2010 Ford changed Every Exterior panel of the body except the Roof, which they didn't change since they had just re-engineered it for that Glass Roof. They changed the body for reasons other than just looks as well. While the styling needed to freshened to keep the Mustang Viable in the Marketplace, they took the time to Improve things such as overall Aerodynamics by 7 percent, and reducing Front End Lift by 23 percent. Both very impressive gains using the same basic platform as the previous model.
They Did Spend Time and Money, adding better sound insulation to reduce Unwanted Noise, coming from road, wind, and engine noise. Taking things as small as the windshield washer nozzles and moving them under the edge of the hood, moving the antenna to the rear, reshaping the side view mirrors, and improving the Weather Stripping for the door glass to improve wind noise, and probably help with leaks too if there were any. That is the also the reason they added the Intake Sound Tube, to give the Driver/Mustang Enthusiast the sounds they Do Want To Hear, while greatly reducing the amount of Unwanted NVH.
They re-tuned the suspension using things they learned from those Special Editions, and more expensive models such as the Shelby GT-500 to improve the Ride and Driving Characteristics of All Models including the Base V6. They added Stability Control, and made Traction Control standard across the board. On top of that they now Offer for a reasonable price options to even better improve Ride and Braking, above what was already their best effort to date, not just being happy to upgrade the 2010 to the levels of the 08 Bullitt.
They answered the issue of Dash Squeaks and Rattles by making the Entire Dash One Piece and improving it's quality and materials in the process, as well as improving the aluminum trim on the dash, and replacing Steering wheel Logo you complained about fading, with a new Aluminum Piece that won't fade. They also added Stereo and Climate Controls to the Wheel for better user interface. Not to rest on their laurels, they also enlarged and improved the Navigation system and added SYNC to make it safer to use your Cell Phone while driving without having to take your hands off the wheel while talking or dialing.
For the LED Tail light issue, Ford added it to the Mustang when the technology became available. This is not the LED technology that everyone thinks of when you say LED. It is a New Technology developed to make LED Lighting Cheaper and Easier to Repair and Replace than the current LED Tail lights used on many High End vehicles, which consist of Multiple Small LED's mounted In Rows, which require cutting and soldering to replace a burned out or damaged LED. The 2010 Mustangs LED's are Fully Plug and Play, which means if one burns out or is damaged, You can replace it your self, just as you have always done with conventional Incandescent Bulbs.
I will admit that during the 70's and 80's American Quality and Reliability fell way behind, because we got so full of our selves that we thought we didn't need to keep up or improve our products, but that simply is not true anymore. The REAL REASON why foreign automakers are taking away the domestic automakers market share is because people are brainwashed into believing that American Cars aren't as good, which is a load of crap. People Keep Perpetuating This by constantly Downing Our Selves and Buying Their Products, with the exception of Gobbling Up Inefficient Vehicles like Trucks and SUV's which have taken away our focus from our mainstream automotive products. They aren't Taking Anything! We're Giving It To Them Freely. But not without a Fight!
Just check out the Cover Story in the Feb 09 Issue of Car and Driver "Can Detroit Build A Better Hybrid" Guess who came It First Place, over GM, Nissan, and Even Toyota....That's Right, the 2010 Ford Fusion! Take That Toyota!
I disagree regarding the LEDs. I know for a FACT that the LED tailight tech existed during the development of S197 because it was rejected by some upper management at Ford. The LED CHMSL tech has been around for YEARS before the 2010 Stang and it took Ford this long to figure it out.
Ford also neglected to improve the S197 over the years causing the same issues to come back over and over (fuel tank issue, leaking interior, SJB malfunctions) and Ford disabled global windows after MY05. Ford also neglected to add the lower A-Arm brace from the get-go and it took then nearly 2-3 years before they were standard on all S197s.
The 2010 Stang is NOT a result of continuous improvement. I'm not sure where anyone got that idea but look at any Japanese and German manufacturer for active CI programs. They add small things each year to fix problems or add new features. The S197 was basically stalled from MY05-MY07 and then slight changes came in MY08, and finally MY10. The MY10 Crown Vic still looks the same as it did in MY98. Talk about lack of improvement...
As for the induction tube, you can cut a hole in your firewall and get the same result or bolt a brace from the engine to your firewall. Again OEM's typically spend millions to REDUCE NVH and isolate it from the cabin. Why do you think we have drive-by-wire throttles? By eliminating a cable, it also prevents NVH from being transmitted to the interior and throttle assembly. The induction tube is a ricer-mod though because it is false advertisement for the vehicle occupants.
Last edited by metroplex; 1/7/09 at 02:10 PM.
1/7/09, 07:09 PM
#17
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
Ford HAS made incremental changes to the S-197 over the last 4 years. HID Lights were added to the option list in 07, as was an In Dash Navigation Stereo, and the interior accent lighting package. For 08 they re-engineered the roof structure and added the Glass Roof, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Mustang is the first American Car to offer a Full Glass Roof. There have also been other changes to things you can't see such as electronics etc.
For the 2010 Ford changed Every Exterior panel of the body except the Roof, which they didn't change since they had just re-engineered it for that Glass Roof. They changed the body for reasons other than just looks as well. While the styling needed to freshened to keep the Mustang Viable in the Marketplace, they took the time to Improve things such as overall Aerodynamics by 7 percent, and reducing Front End Lift by 23 percent. Both very impressive gains using the same basic platform as the previous model.
They Did Spend Time and Money, adding better sound insulation to reduce Unwanted Noise, coming from road, wind, and engine noise. Taking things as small as the windshield washer nozzles and moving them under the edge of the hood, moving the antenna to the rear, reshaping the side view mirrors, and improving the Weather Stripping for the door glass to improve wind noise, and probably help with leaks too if there were any. That is the also the reason they added the Intake Sound Tube, to give the Driver/Mustang Enthusiast the sounds they Do Want To Hear, while greatly reducing the amount of Unwanted NVH.
They re-tuned the suspension using things they learned from those Special Editions, and more expensive models such as the Shelby GT-500 to improve the Ride and Driving Characteristics of All Models including the Base V6. They added Stability Control, and made Traction Control standard across the board. On top of that they now Offer for a reasonable price options to even better improve Ride and Braking, above what was already their best effort to date, not just being happy to upgrade the 2010 to the levels of the 08 Bullitt.
They answered the issue of Dash Squeaks and Rattles by making the Entire Dash One Piece and improving it's quality and materials in the process, as well as improving the aluminum trim on the dash, and replacing Steering wheel Logo you complained about fading, with a new Aluminum Piece that won't fade. They also added Stereo and Climate Controls to the Wheel for better user interface. Not to rest on their laurels, they also enlarged and improved the Navigation system and added SYNC to make it safer to use your Cell Phone while driving without having to take your hands off the wheel while talking or dialing.
For the LED Tail light issue, Ford added it to the Mustang when the technology became available. This is not the LED technology that everyone thinks of when you say LED. It is a New Technology developed to make LED Lighting Cheaper and Easier to Repair and Replace than the current LED Tail lights used on many High End vehicles, which consist of Multiple Small LED's mounted In Rows, which require cutting and soldering to replace a burned out or damaged LED. The 2010 Mustangs LED's are Fully Plug and Play, which means if one burns out or is damaged, You can replace it your self, just as you have always done with conventional Incandescent Bulbs.
I will admit that during the 70's and 80's American Quality and Reliability fell way behind, because we got so full of our selves that we thought we didn't need to keep up or improve our products, but that simply is not true anymore. The REAL REASON why foreign automakers are taking away the domestic automakers market share is because people are brainwashed into believing that American Cars aren't as good, which is a load of crap. People Keep Perpetuating This by constantly Downing Our Selves and Buying Their Products, with the exception of Gobbling Up Inefficient Vehicles like Trucks and SUV's which have taken away our focus from our mainstream automotive products. They aren't Taking Anything! We're Giving It To Them Freely. But not without a Fight!
Just check out the Cover Story in the Feb 09 Issue of Car and Driver "Can Detroit Build A Better Hybrid" Guess who came It First Place, over GM, Nissan, and Even Toyota....That's Right, the 2010 Ford Fusion! Take That Toyota!
For the 2010 Ford changed Every Exterior panel of the body except the Roof, which they didn't change since they had just re-engineered it for that Glass Roof. They changed the body for reasons other than just looks as well. While the styling needed to freshened to keep the Mustang Viable in the Marketplace, they took the time to Improve things such as overall Aerodynamics by 7 percent, and reducing Front End Lift by 23 percent. Both very impressive gains using the same basic platform as the previous model.
They Did Spend Time and Money, adding better sound insulation to reduce Unwanted Noise, coming from road, wind, and engine noise. Taking things as small as the windshield washer nozzles and moving them under the edge of the hood, moving the antenna to the rear, reshaping the side view mirrors, and improving the Weather Stripping for the door glass to improve wind noise, and probably help with leaks too if there were any. That is the also the reason they added the Intake Sound Tube, to give the Driver/Mustang Enthusiast the sounds they Do Want To Hear, while greatly reducing the amount of Unwanted NVH.
They re-tuned the suspension using things they learned from those Special Editions, and more expensive models such as the Shelby GT-500 to improve the Ride and Driving Characteristics of All Models including the Base V6. They added Stability Control, and made Traction Control standard across the board. On top of that they now Offer for a reasonable price options to even better improve Ride and Braking, above what was already their best effort to date, not just being happy to upgrade the 2010 to the levels of the 08 Bullitt.
They answered the issue of Dash Squeaks and Rattles by making the Entire Dash One Piece and improving it's quality and materials in the process, as well as improving the aluminum trim on the dash, and replacing Steering wheel Logo you complained about fading, with a new Aluminum Piece that won't fade. They also added Stereo and Climate Controls to the Wheel for better user interface. Not to rest on their laurels, they also enlarged and improved the Navigation system and added SYNC to make it safer to use your Cell Phone while driving without having to take your hands off the wheel while talking or dialing.
For the LED Tail light issue, Ford added it to the Mustang when the technology became available. This is not the LED technology that everyone thinks of when you say LED. It is a New Technology developed to make LED Lighting Cheaper and Easier to Repair and Replace than the current LED Tail lights used on many High End vehicles, which consist of Multiple Small LED's mounted In Rows, which require cutting and soldering to replace a burned out or damaged LED. The 2010 Mustangs LED's are Fully Plug and Play, which means if one burns out or is damaged, You can replace it your self, just as you have always done with conventional Incandescent Bulbs.
I will admit that during the 70's and 80's American Quality and Reliability fell way behind, because we got so full of our selves that we thought we didn't need to keep up or improve our products, but that simply is not true anymore. The REAL REASON why foreign automakers are taking away the domestic automakers market share is because people are brainwashed into believing that American Cars aren't as good, which is a load of crap. People Keep Perpetuating This by constantly Downing Our Selves and Buying Their Products, with the exception of Gobbling Up Inefficient Vehicles like Trucks and SUV's which have taken away our focus from our mainstream automotive products. They aren't Taking Anything! We're Giving It To Them Freely. But not without a Fight!
Just check out the Cover Story in the Feb 09 Issue of Car and Driver "Can Detroit Build A Better Hybrid" Guess who came It First Place, over GM, Nissan, and Even Toyota....That's Right, the 2010 Ford Fusion! Take That Toyota!
Perhaps it's just me, but IMO it's totally unaccpetable for a battery tender to be required in order to prevent a battery from discharging in a brand new car with today's modern high-tech electronics
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 1/8/09 at 12:16 AM.
1/7/09, 07:13 PM
#18
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No offense Shawn, but Metroplex (Charlie) is correct. Ford has still not corrected the fuel tank issue, and not especially the battery drain issue either. For which btw: I have still have to keep a battery tender connected, if my 2005 GT sits in my garage for more than 7-10 days. Otherwise the battery will completely discharge.
Perhaps it's just me, but IMO it's totally unaccpetable for a battery tender to be required in order to prevent a battery from discharging in a brand new car with today's modern high-tech electronics
Perhaps it's just me, but IMO it's totally unaccpetable for a battery tender to be required in order to prevent a battery from discharging in a brand new car with today's modern high-tech electronics
1/7/09, 07:26 PM
#19
THE RED FLASH ------ Master-Moderator
Which as I just mentioned, is totally un-acceptable and also un-excusable as well.
1/7/09, 11:54 PM
#20
Cobra R Member
Metroplex, I simply pointed out all of the improvements I Personally Know Ford has done over the lifespan of the S-197. Maybe they didn't do as much as you expected, or maybe they didn't fix the particular issue you had, but you make is sound as if Ford has done NOTHING to improve the Mustang since 05, which is a completely false statement.
I am not sure what issue you guys are talking about with the Gas Tank, but There hasn't been any issue with my Mom's 05 GT, and as far as Battery issues, she's had it since Feb 05 and only had a battery issue twice where she had to have it jumped off, and that's only because she Does Not Drive The Car. It's got less than 2500 miles on it since Feb 05.
Next lets talk about the LED Tail Light Issue. If you read my post again you will notice that I pointed out that the LED technology is DIFFERENT than what people think when you say LED Tail Lights. You are going under the assumption that the 2010's tail lights are LED's as used in most modern Day luxury Vehicles, It Is Not! Yes the CHMSL is Traditional LED Tech, but we're talking about the actual Tail Lamps, and Brake Lamps.
Here is the LED "JOULE" Unit used in the 2010 Mustang. As you can see it is Quite Different from what one thinks of when you say LED.
Below is a Traditional LED CHMSL, as you can see there are Rows of LED's Mounted to a Circuit Board, if One of these LED's burns out or gets damaged the entire lamp must be taken apart, and the bad LED removed and a new one Soldered in place to repair it. Unlike the New Technology that is used in the 2010 Mustang, the Normal Person cannot do that kind of repair.
Here's the press release from Osram Sylvania, explaining the new technology used for the 2010 Mustang.
OK now the Induction Sound Tube Issue, as Explained in the Press Release from Ford, posted by Brad back on 11-18-08.
You know it when you hear it: that muscular burble at idle that transforms into an aggressive roar under hard acceleration. For 2010, Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) engineers for the Mustang focused on eliminating the unwanted sounds while maintaining the classic note of America’s favorite muscle car.
“We wanted to improve the driving environment for the customer. While you’re travelling down the road, it’s now much easier to have a conversation with your passengers, but when you stand on the gas, you still hear the roar of the engine and the sweet sound of the exhaust,” said Greg Wayne, NVH supervisor for the Mustang. “We maintained that Mustang characteristic sound, but made the whole driving experience much more enjoyable.”
The Mustang NVH team knows how important the sound of the Mustang is to its longstanding fans. They also are aware of how unwanted, unrefined noise detracts from the customer’s experience. So the team used a variety of methods and solutions to keep – and even enhance – Mustang’s heritage sound while eliminating unwanted noise.
Customers grapple with road noise, wind noise, powertrain whines, buzzes and booms – among others. Even storage compartments and doors on the new 2010 Mustang were “tuned” to create a more pleasing sound.
Wayne said the NVH team worked closely with their colleagues in Design Engineering and Manufacturing and Assembly to integrate the solutions, which sometimes were neither obvious nor easy.
“Wind noise, for example, is not only about adding absorption and deadening materials,” he said. “It’s also paying attention to the design details: for instance, where the radio antenna is located, how the wiper blades are styled and positioned relative to the hood and glass and how the exterior mirrors are shaped and mounted. There are many aspects from a design and assembly perspective you have to be aware of because each contributes to the overall sound quality you experience inside the car.”
On 2010 Mustang, the radio antenna was moved to the rear, creating a cleaner look on the front end as well as reducing wind noise. The mirrors were redesigned, resulting in aerodynamic gains and reducing wind noise. Those types of win-win solutions were the product of the teams setting a high baseline of expectation and working together diligently to make sure the designs met their targets every step of the way.
“One of the guiding principles for Ford NVH is 'Feels Right, Sounds Tight,’ ” Wayne said. “Door opening and closing falls right into our efforts to create a solid, vault-like sound when you close the door and that positive ‘snick’ and feel when you open it. A lot of factors play into that in terms of the door hardware – latches, strikers, sheet metal.”
Another door-closing variable involves the pressure wave it creates inside the vehicle. “How well the vehicle is sealed affects your door-closing efforts,” he added. “Design Engineering and NVH spent a lot of time on those details to get it just right. ”
Two of the most important tools used to control sound and vibration are the absorptive and damping materials. Absorptive materials are something akin to stuffing ear plugs or cotton into someone’s ears, keeping out loud noises while damping materials help reduce vibration.
Wayne said both were used strategically throughout the 2010 Mustang in areas such as the passenger side dash, trunk, hood, headliner and interior trim.
Mustang also features an industry-first Induction Sound Tube (IST), which enhances the driving experience by piping the sound of the induction
The revised Cold Air Induction system yields increased power but cuts out a significant portion of the interior sound and the character that customers want to hear. The IST was developed and tuned to recover and enhance that character. system directly into the passenger compartment.
The trick part of the system is that the potential for the aftermarket to develop custom tuning is highly likely, which is good news for Mustang – one of the industry’s most-customized vehicles.
“You still get to experience that distinctive Mustang sound our customers love,” Wayne said. “We just eliminated many of the noises and vibrations you don’t want to hear and feel on the new 2010 Mustang.”
As for the Crown Vic, Don't Ask Me, all I can say is They Still Sell. Old People Love Them down here in Florida. And they are still a Staple of Law Enforcement, and Taxi Fleets All Across the Country.
I am not sure what issue you guys are talking about with the Gas Tank, but There hasn't been any issue with my Mom's 05 GT, and as far as Battery issues, she's had it since Feb 05 and only had a battery issue twice where she had to have it jumped off, and that's only because she Does Not Drive The Car. It's got less than 2500 miles on it since Feb 05.
Next lets talk about the LED Tail Light Issue. If you read my post again you will notice that I pointed out that the LED technology is DIFFERENT than what people think when you say LED Tail Lights. You are going under the assumption that the 2010's tail lights are LED's as used in most modern Day luxury Vehicles, It Is Not! Yes the CHMSL is Traditional LED Tech, but we're talking about the actual Tail Lamps, and Brake Lamps.
Here is the LED "JOULE" Unit used in the 2010 Mustang. As you can see it is Quite Different from what one thinks of when you say LED.
Below is a Traditional LED CHMSL, as you can see there are Rows of LED's Mounted to a Circuit Board, if One of these LED's burns out or gets damaged the entire lamp must be taken apart, and the bad LED removed and a new one Soldered in place to repair it. Unlike the New Technology that is used in the 2010 Mustang, the Normal Person cannot do that kind of repair.
Here's the press release from Osram Sylvania, explaining the new technology used for the 2010 Mustang.
OSRAM'S LED Signal Lighting Brightens an Icon and Lights the Way to the Future
2010 Ford Mustang Features OSRAM LED-powered JOULE Signal Lighting
Last update: 12:55 p.m. EST Nov. 24, 2008
HILLSBORO, N.H., Nov 24, 2008 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- When the new 2010 Ford Mustang cruised onto the stage at the 2008 Los Angeles Auto Show, Nov. 19, practically everything that lit it up, inside and out, was powered by OSRAM products. America's pony car includes innovative lighting from front to back including the unique sequential rear turn signal powered by OSRAM JOULE(TM) standardized automotive LED system. (Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081124/CLM064-a )
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081124/CLM064-b )
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081124/CLM064-c )
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081124/CLM064-d )
OSRAM JOULE System illuminates the 2010 Mustang's turn, brake and taillight functions. Unlike traditional incandescent signal lights, the JOULE System uses tiny LEDs that consume 10 times less energy, generate less waste and offer vehicle designers unprecedented design flexibility. Compared to incandescent light sources, JOULE Systems can save a driver up to 4 gallons of gasoline every year. OSRAM LED technology also lights the Mustang's interior, providing the distinctive Ice Blue glow to the center stack, window switches, door lock lights and headlamp switches. The Mustang's ambient interior lighting system uses the OSRAM TOPLED family of LEDs to flood color into the cup holders, door panels, foot wells and console. The programmable system allows occupants to customize the interior color by choosing from seven colors -- red, green, blue, orange, purple, white and Ice Blue -- to suit the mood. OSRAM TOPLED was the driver behind the industry-first color-configurable instrument cluster in the 2005 Ford Mustang and continues to provide the color lighting source for the 2010 Mustang's interior lighting. "LEDs continue to define the future of automobile lighting when it comes to environmental sustainability, practical functionality and design flexibility," said David Hulick, global product marketing manager at OSRAM for its Automotive LED Systems Strategic Business Segment. "The reduction in energy consumption, coupled with its long-lasting durability means less waste is generated in the form of replacement parts and packaging. The design flexibility offered by LEDs makes them even more desirable for defining the signature look of one of America's most celebrated vehicles." The 2010 Ford Mustang's design is a more aggressive and muscular take on the iconic look that has come to define Mustang, while drawing inspiration from the car's rich heritage. For example, the new vertical taillamp design utilizes three LED bulbs that fire sequentially, from the center out, a feature not seen on Mustang since the 1960s. As the first standardized LED system, JOULE makes LED technology more accessible in the marketplace by providing OEM designers with a reliable, industry standardized light source that simplifies the design process and can be utilized by many vehicle platforms for rear combination lamp assemblies (RCLs). The OSRAM JOULE System helps vehicle manufacturers incorporate the functionality, durability, energy-savings, and distinctive styling that today's consumers look for in a vehicle. Along with the Mustang's distinctive rear combination taillamps, OSRAM worked closely with Valeo Sylvania to supply the complete exterior package including the, fog lamps, LED CHMSL, front and rear side marker lamps and the D3S XENON headlamps. The 2010 Mustang is the sixth Ford Motor Company vehicle to benefit from OSRAM mercury-free, high-intensity discharge lighting technology, offered as an option. "We're proud Ford Motor Company looked to OSRAM, the world leader in automotive lighting when creating the latest Ford Mustang," said Hulick. "From the bright illumination of the D3S mercury-free XENON HID headlamps to the cool convenience of the interior dome lamp, OSRAM is as much a part of Mustang as Mustang is a part of the American fabric." About OSRAM SYLVANIA OSRAM SYLVANIA, together with OSRAM GmbH, is the world leader in automotive lighting for original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) and the aftermarket. The company's global automotive lighting division has its principal North American operations in Hillsboro, N.H., with nearly 700 employees. In addition to TS 16949, this facility has also achieved ISO 9001 and 14001 certifications. Automotive Lighting designs, develops, manufactures and markets state-of-the-art automotive light sources, including auxiliary, advanced halogen, LED and high-intensity discharge lighting for interior, exterior and forward lighting applications. Over 400 lamp types are produced for cars, trucks, and electronics in facilities throughout the U.S., Europe, and Asia. Automotive applications for OEMs are marketed under the OSRAM brand while products for the aftermarket are sold under the SYLVANIA brand. OSRAM Opto Semiconductors and OSRAM Automotive Lighting work together to offer a complete line of cutting-edge, award-winning, light emitting diode (LED) products and system solutions for the automotive industry from individual LED components to Joule(TM) Standardized Automotive LED Systems. OSRAM LED products enable the automotive industry to take advantage of the functionality, durability, energy-savings, and styling potential LEDs provide. OSRAM SYLVANIA is a leader in lighting solutions and specialty products that feature innovative design and energy saving technology. The company sells products for homes, businesses and vehicles primarily under the SYLVANIA brand name, and also under the OSRAM brand. Headquartered in Danvers, Mass., OSRAM SYLVANIA is the North American operation of OSRAM GmbH, a wholly owned subsidiary of Siemens AG. For more information, visit www.sylvania.com . SOURCE OSRAM
2010 Ford Mustang Features OSRAM LED-powered JOULE Signal Lighting
Last update: 12:55 p.m. EST Nov. 24, 2008
HILLSBORO, N.H., Nov 24, 2008 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- When the new 2010 Ford Mustang cruised onto the stage at the 2008 Los Angeles Auto Show, Nov. 19, practically everything that lit it up, inside and out, was powered by OSRAM products. America's pony car includes innovative lighting from front to back including the unique sequential rear turn signal powered by OSRAM JOULE(TM) standardized automotive LED system. (Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081124/CLM064-a )
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081124/CLM064-b )
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081124/CLM064-c )
(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20081124/CLM064-d )
OSRAM JOULE System illuminates the 2010 Mustang's turn, brake and taillight functions. Unlike traditional incandescent signal lights, the JOULE System uses tiny LEDs that consume 10 times less energy, generate less waste and offer vehicle designers unprecedented design flexibility. Compared to incandescent light sources, JOULE Systems can save a driver up to 4 gallons of gasoline every year. OSRAM LED technology also lights the Mustang's interior, providing the distinctive Ice Blue glow to the center stack, window switches, door lock lights and headlamp switches. The Mustang's ambient interior lighting system uses the OSRAM TOPLED family of LEDs to flood color into the cup holders, door panels, foot wells and console. The programmable system allows occupants to customize the interior color by choosing from seven colors -- red, green, blue, orange, purple, white and Ice Blue -- to suit the mood. OSRAM TOPLED was the driver behind the industry-first color-configurable instrument cluster in the 2005 Ford Mustang and continues to provide the color lighting source for the 2010 Mustang's interior lighting. "LEDs continue to define the future of automobile lighting when it comes to environmental sustainability, practical functionality and design flexibility," said David Hulick, global product marketing manager at OSRAM for its Automotive LED Systems Strategic Business Segment. "The reduction in energy consumption, coupled with its long-lasting durability means less waste is generated in the form of replacement parts and packaging. The design flexibility offered by LEDs makes them even more desirable for defining the signature look of one of America's most celebrated vehicles." The 2010 Ford Mustang's design is a more aggressive and muscular take on the iconic look that has come to define Mustang, while drawing inspiration from the car's rich heritage. For example, the new vertical taillamp design utilizes three LED bulbs that fire sequentially, from the center out, a feature not seen on Mustang since the 1960s. As the first standardized LED system, JOULE makes LED technology more accessible in the marketplace by providing OEM designers with a reliable, industry standardized light source that simplifies the design process and can be utilized by many vehicle platforms for rear combination lamp assemblies (RCLs). The OSRAM JOULE System helps vehicle manufacturers incorporate the functionality, durability, energy-savings, and distinctive styling that today's consumers look for in a vehicle. Along with the Mustang's distinctive rear combination taillamps, OSRAM worked closely with Valeo Sylvania to supply the complete exterior package including the, fog lamps, LED CHMSL, front and rear side marker lamps and the D3S XENON headlamps. The 2010 Mustang is the sixth Ford Motor Company vehicle to benefit from OSRAM mercury-free, high-intensity discharge lighting technology, offered as an option. "We're proud Ford Motor Company looked to OSRAM, the world leader in automotive lighting when creating the latest Ford Mustang," said Hulick. "From the bright illumination of the D3S mercury-free XENON HID headlamps to the cool convenience of the interior dome lamp, OSRAM is as much a part of Mustang as Mustang is a part of the American fabric." About OSRAM SYLVANIA OSRAM SYLVANIA, together with OSRAM GmbH, is the world leader in automotive lighting for original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) and the aftermarket. The company's global automotive lighting division has its principal North American operations in Hillsboro, N.H., with nearly 700 employees. In addition to TS 16949, this facility has also achieved ISO 9001 and 14001 certifications. Automotive Lighting designs, develops, manufactures and markets state-of-the-art automotive light sources, including auxiliary, advanced halogen, LED and high-intensity discharge lighting for interior, exterior and forward lighting applications. Over 400 lamp types are produced for cars, trucks, and electronics in facilities throughout the U.S., Europe, and Asia. Automotive applications for OEMs are marketed under the OSRAM brand while products for the aftermarket are sold under the SYLVANIA brand. OSRAM Opto Semiconductors and OSRAM Automotive Lighting work together to offer a complete line of cutting-edge, award-winning, light emitting diode (LED) products and system solutions for the automotive industry from individual LED components to Joule(TM) Standardized Automotive LED Systems. OSRAM LED products enable the automotive industry to take advantage of the functionality, durability, energy-savings, and styling potential LEDs provide. OSRAM SYLVANIA is a leader in lighting solutions and specialty products that feature innovative design and energy saving technology. The company sells products for homes, businesses and vehicles primarily under the SYLVANIA brand name, and also under the OSRAM brand. Headquartered in Danvers, Mass., OSRAM SYLVANIA is the North American operation of OSRAM GmbH, a wholly owned subsidiary of Siemens AG. For more information, visit www.sylvania.com . SOURCE OSRAM
OK now the Induction Sound Tube Issue, as Explained in the Press Release from Ford, posted by Brad back on 11-18-08.
2010 FORD MUSTANG QUIETER WHERE IT COUNTS
- Addition of sound absorptive and damping materials improves sound level in cabin
- Tuning of induction system and exhaust enhances heritage Mustang sound
- Integrated teamwork by designers, engineers key to solving wind, road noise issues
You know it when you hear it: that muscular burble at idle that transforms into an aggressive roar under hard acceleration. For 2010, Noise, Vibration and Harshness (NVH) engineers for the Mustang focused on eliminating the unwanted sounds while maintaining the classic note of America’s favorite muscle car.
“We wanted to improve the driving environment for the customer. While you’re travelling down the road, it’s now much easier to have a conversation with your passengers, but when you stand on the gas, you still hear the roar of the engine and the sweet sound of the exhaust,” said Greg Wayne, NVH supervisor for the Mustang. “We maintained that Mustang characteristic sound, but made the whole driving experience much more enjoyable.”
The Mustang NVH team knows how important the sound of the Mustang is to its longstanding fans. They also are aware of how unwanted, unrefined noise detracts from the customer’s experience. So the team used a variety of methods and solutions to keep – and even enhance – Mustang’s heritage sound while eliminating unwanted noise.
Customers grapple with road noise, wind noise, powertrain whines, buzzes and booms – among others. Even storage compartments and doors on the new 2010 Mustang were “tuned” to create a more pleasing sound.
Wayne said the NVH team worked closely with their colleagues in Design Engineering and Manufacturing and Assembly to integrate the solutions, which sometimes were neither obvious nor easy.
“Wind noise, for example, is not only about adding absorption and deadening materials,” he said. “It’s also paying attention to the design details: for instance, where the radio antenna is located, how the wiper blades are styled and positioned relative to the hood and glass and how the exterior mirrors are shaped and mounted. There are many aspects from a design and assembly perspective you have to be aware of because each contributes to the overall sound quality you experience inside the car.”
On 2010 Mustang, the radio antenna was moved to the rear, creating a cleaner look on the front end as well as reducing wind noise. The mirrors were redesigned, resulting in aerodynamic gains and reducing wind noise. Those types of win-win solutions were the product of the teams setting a high baseline of expectation and working together diligently to make sure the designs met their targets every step of the way.
“One of the guiding principles for Ford NVH is 'Feels Right, Sounds Tight,’ ” Wayne said. “Door opening and closing falls right into our efforts to create a solid, vault-like sound when you close the door and that positive ‘snick’ and feel when you open it. A lot of factors play into that in terms of the door hardware – latches, strikers, sheet metal.”
Another door-closing variable involves the pressure wave it creates inside the vehicle. “How well the vehicle is sealed affects your door-closing efforts,” he added. “Design Engineering and NVH spent a lot of time on those details to get it just right. ”
Two of the most important tools used to control sound and vibration are the absorptive and damping materials. Absorptive materials are something akin to stuffing ear plugs or cotton into someone’s ears, keeping out loud noises while damping materials help reduce vibration.
Wayne said both were used strategically throughout the 2010 Mustang in areas such as the passenger side dash, trunk, hood, headliner and interior trim.
Mustang also features an industry-first Induction Sound Tube (IST), which enhances the driving experience by piping the sound of the induction
The revised Cold Air Induction system yields increased power but cuts out a significant portion of the interior sound and the character that customers want to hear. The IST was developed and tuned to recover and enhance that character. system directly into the passenger compartment.
The trick part of the system is that the potential for the aftermarket to develop custom tuning is highly likely, which is good news for Mustang – one of the industry’s most-customized vehicles.
“You still get to experience that distinctive Mustang sound our customers love,” Wayne said. “We just eliminated many of the noises and vibrations you don’t want to hear and feel on the new 2010 Mustang.”
As for the Crown Vic, Don't Ask Me, all I can say is They Still Sell. Old People Love Them down here in Florida. And they are still a Staple of Law Enforcement, and Taxi Fleets All Across the Country.
Last edited by TampaBear67; 1/7/09 at 11:55 PM.