Witty.
Weak.
Sure that one does well in the cube farm.

But can you answer the question or not? You seem to answer every other one.

 

... whatever ...

 

Yeah that's what I thought.


Next.

 

Maybe if you asked nicely, I'd entertain the question. I don't feel inclined when a poster is abrasive.

 

Geez I'm not asking you for sex. I doubt if you're my type of guy anyways. Get over yourself.

I just wanted a better explanation why everything has gone to CAN. What factors proved a need for it? Or was it just more unnecessary technology?
Honestly by this time I would probably prefer no answer at all.

 

wow

Do you want an answer or not?

 

Great read and breakdown of the can implementation.

I've been reading up on can as its huge for racing efforts to be able to tap into all the cars' built in sensors and calculations and bringing that into the telemetry picture to help drive competitive performance. There's a lot to learn from the outside looking in, however.

Also in VW/Audi land, apps like vag-com allow testing of those modules and changes with a interface that's almost friendly for end users (maybe not down to the sub-blue collar level alscobra trolls around in) but I hadn't seen a lot of equivalents on the ford side. I know there's some Chinese ebay kits out there and will be the first thing I try to see what I can learn and find.

 

I think I can answer that. The engineers needed to come up with a CAN to handle the enormous amount of output created during a multi-module DUMP. The CAN****yser will display the programmed timing of the module FLUSH sequence which is how the PCM will know when to WIPE the BUFFER. You want to keep your BUFFER clean in case of a SHTF collision on the network. Otherwise you get 0x7B7 00 AA BB CC DD FF FF FA all over the place!

I suppose you could use a simple handle to do the FLUSH; but, you're right, it wouldn’t be as cool!

I just use the lawn. Ha!

 

Wow this was a load. What modules do you need to help with competitive driving? Other than a PCM, all the rest of the crap on the network controls lights and comfort functions. Gadgets and what not. The mustang doesn't come with yaw sensors and electronic dampers. I'm not trolling you guys at all. When I was with GM, CAN systems started rolling out. Went to so many training classes on diagnostics and repairs and still couldn't get a straight answer. Door modules to control a window motor and door lock. Lighting modules to control a dome lamp. Everything now is controlled by its unnecessary module. Which brings me to my ultimate point, modules don't last forever. A module will not outlast a fuse and relay. So what if you can see communication with a lighting module? Just keep the lights working for the life of the car. If you're that into tech, go play on your computer. Get out of my car.

 

 

We already know that with current emmision controls, the PCM is needed to regulate and optimize the running of the engine.

Manufacturers also claim that there is less wiring, and that is the case. But it is also save money in the designing and manufacture.

For an instrument cluster, a supplier only needs to know what signals the cluster will receive, and are supposed to design and make the cluster for Ford based on these signals without worrying about how the signal needs to be generated.

I found this article that I found helpful:

 

I think the answer is simple. Look at the Electronic Stability Control system for example. It needs the following information:
Steering Angele
Yaw Rate
Lateral Acceleration
Longitudinal Acceleration
Pressure Sensor
Vacuum Sensor
Engine Torque
Engine Speed
Wheel Speed Sensors
Park Brake apply status
Throttle Position
Brake pedal position
Clutch position
..... and so on

A lot of other modules also use the same information. So if you were to use relays and run separate wires to ESP module, ECM, BCM, PTM etc you would have a ridiculous web of wires running all over the car.

Instead, the ESP module reads in the Wheel Speed Sensors (hardwired), does filtering, processing, compensation and monitoring on them, and broadcasts the wheel speed to every other module that needs it on the CAN bus. 4 wires instead of 40. Same goes for quite a few other signals. And CAN bus has a well defined protocol so there is no voltage level/A2D conversion, or scaling issues to worry about.

Also now OEs are moving to Flexray because CAN isn't fast enough. As El Coyote said, the sheer volume of information transmitted is astronimical, and with semi-autonomous and fully autonomous features which we're working on now the volume needs and data transfer speed needs are higher and higher.

Is this sort of what you were looking for?

 

It's the better one so far. It's a whole lot of data transferred and collected. But how much of this data is needed? Other than maybe a near crash adjustment for the stability system, what use does it have? The dampers on your mustang don't adjust on their own. Brake pressure doesn't adjust much unless there is a traction loss. My point is it is unnecessary data and unnecessary technology. Stand alone systems would work much better and require less effort. Lighting, comfort, and entertainment have nothing to do with engine and emission controls. They don't need to communicate with the ECM at all. It's putting space shuttle technology in a red wagon. The mustang is still a pretty primitive vehicle as well as many of today's vehicles. In a tech and engineering world, it's cool and innovative. But real world usefulness it's overkill and just a waste. For the choice few people that will actually utilize this data, it might be a good thing. Like I said, engineers need job stability too and if they are not innovating, they don't keep their jobs. Leaving well enough alone is a good idea sometimes too though.

 

The PCM's main function is emissions control. Converter protection. Engine control is secondary.
Nobody cares about cluster or any other parts manufacturers. If they want the contract, they will build to work with whatever system the car uses. It's just technology for tech sakes. That's all it is. It's here now so were stuck with it till the next evolution but we definitely didn't need it for anything.

 

Hey Als, I think you make some good points. It used to be more stand alone, but another trend in the auto industry today is centralizing, or combining more features into one ECU. Otherwise you'd have over 100 controllers all networked to one another in some way. Now there are ~35 or so. Now the trend is to combine as much as possible. For example the brake system ECU also performs electrical park brake duties, driveline protection, traction control, hill start assist, vehicle hold, full speed range cruise control, parental controls, autonomous emergency braking, trailer sway control, hill descent control, hydraulic boost force compensation, and about 25 other functions. To do this all, and do it safely when sub systems fail a tremendous amount of information is needed. Pus there are systems backing up other systems, so there is a need for redundancy of data availability.

Think about autonomous braking alone. You have to have a radar/camera unit detecting objects and measuring the distance. Then it calculates a deceleration target/distance. The ECU has to communicate with the Camera/Radar sensors. Then the ECU has to send a brake request to the Brake ECU. The brake ECU must monitor wheel speeds, yaw, pressures, deceleration, it must communicate with the power train to ask for a engine tq reduction, apply the brake lights, notify all other systems that emergency braking is in progress, so cruise control knows to disengage and so on and so forth.

I work on some projects were in addition to the standard ABS, Traction Control and Stability control functions we offer over 35 value-added functions. This trend is also on the rise. And autonomous driving is coming. This makes the data demand and processing demand sky high. It's literally aircraft system like redundancy, and each ECU has to have 2 or 4 cores, memory protection, data integrity and fail-operational capability.

The nice thing about CAN is that ALL the information is on it, and everyone is networked together. Each module can just pick and chose what info it needs to do it's thing. In the last 5-7 years there has also also been a separation of different can busses. One project I work on has 3. One for driver info (and the many touch screens and wifi/4g controllers and infotainment on it, one for power train and drive train, the electric motors and batter, and one for chassis).

It's only gonna get worse. Enjoy your Mustang while it's still simple.

 

That's very good for cars with automatic braking, hill assist, antiswaying, etc etc.
And I'm glad to hear from someone actually working on these systems. I know you need job security and this looks a lot like an approval pitch to management. Lol.
But would you admit that it really is just unnecessary on a vehicle that will never see any of these options? Maybe it's just a good proving ground for the future but it causes a lot of hard parts to be completely obsolete if a car is wrecked and will kill a lot of aftermarkets also. Just doesn't seem like good business.

 

So you have a type of guy?

 

Yeah I like skinny defenseless geeks. Send me some pics.

 

Sorry, I'm not skinny nor am I into any type of guys or guys at all. But...
I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
And a round thing in your face
I get sprung!!

 

I am quite the booty aficionado myself.
Mostly girl booties.