Are 5.0l engines improved?
1/1/14, 08:18 PM
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Are 5.0l engines improved?
Have there been 5.0L engine improvements I should be considering before purchasing a 2012 GT instead of a 2013-2014 GT? I'm thinking of moving out of my 05 GT 5spd into something newer.
1/1/14, 08:27 PM
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Yes they removed the oil squirters and I believe slightly changed the piston itself. I would go for a '13-'14 if I were you. Not to mention that I don't believe I've seen a '13+ suffer from the infamous "#8 issue."
1/1/14, 08:49 PM
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Infamous #8 issue had nothing to do with a factory car. It was when people were tuning that the #8 issue became said issue. That has been worked out and not a problem anymore. The 11-12 had piston cooling jets aka oil squirters. The 13+ do not. They have a coating on the piston. Just to clarify.
Last edited by Thamac15; 1/1/14 at 08:57 PM.
1/1/14, 08:59 PM
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There were some factory engines that had #8 issues. It wasn't just engines with after market tunes. And buying used, how do you know if the previous owner tuned or not? 
The redesign for 13+ included coated pistons and different oil control rings with redesigned oil ports in the ring lands. They picked up some HP by deleting the squirters because of less drag.
Search (#8) is your friend.
EDIT: pics: https://themustangsource.com/f800/co...4/#post6280407
The 13+ transmission also received some coated parts, redesigned/strengthened parts, and the clutch issues were fixed.
The redesign for 13+ included coated pistons and different oil control rings with redesigned oil ports in the ring lands. They picked up some HP by deleting the squirters because of less drag.
Search (#8) is your friend.
EDIT: pics: https://themustangsource.com/f800/co...4/#post6280407
The 13+ transmission also received some coated parts, redesigned/strengthened parts, and the clutch issues were fixed.
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/1/14 at 09:22 PM.
1/1/14, 09:48 PM
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Infamous #8 issue had nothing to do with a factory car. It was when people were tuning that the #8 issue became said issue,...correct??? I'm not entirely 100% sure of that but That has been worked out and not a problem anymore. The 11-12 had piston cooling jets aka oil squirrels. The 13+ do not. They have a coating on the piston. Just to clarify.
There are a couple of regular posters on here that like to post repeatedly that the 11-12 gt is a time bomb. It did scare me at one point till I realized it was just a couple of people repeatedly posting it. Same guy that calls the 10-12 tail a diaper rear end every few moments. There are a lot of 11-12 out there, including mine, that run well.
1/1/14, 10:06 PM
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From my research, yes. The #8 issue was a tune issue. I read a couple of folks say that they had a #8 issue on a car without a tune. I only found one person that said they had the engine replaced under warranty. It leads me to think the folks that said they were on a factory tune, most likely where not. There are a couple of regular posters on here that like to post repeatedly that the 11-12 gt is a time bomb. It did scare me at one point till I realized it was just a couple of people repeatedly posting it. Same guy that calls the 10-12 tail a diaper rear end every few moments. There are a lot of 11-12 out there, including mine, that run well.
1/1/14, 10:07 PM
#7
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There were some factory engines that had #8 issues. It wasn't just engines with after market tunes. And buying used, how do you know if the previous owner tuned or not? The redesign for 13+ included coated pistons and different oil control rings with redesigned oil ports in the ring lands. They picked up some HP by deleting the squirters because of less drag. Search (#8) is your friend. EDIT: pics: https://themustangsource.com/f800/co...4/#post6280407 The 13+ transmission also received some coated parts, redesigned/strengthened parts, and the clutch issues were fixed.
The redesign for 13+ included coated pistons and different oil control rings with redesigned oil ports in the ring lands. They picked up some HP by deleting the squirters because of less drag. Search (#8) is your friend. EDIT: pics: https://themustangsource.com/f800/co...4/#post6280407 The 13+ transmission also received some coated parts, redesigned/strengthened parts, and the clutch issues were fixed.
1/1/14, 11:36 PM
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My personal opinion on buying a used 11/12 5.0 is that you don't know if the previous owner had tuned or not. If I were to buy one I would certainly pay for an extended warranty. JMO
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/1/14 at 11:45 PM.
1/1/14, 11:39 PM
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There are a couple of regular posters on here that like to post repeatedly that the 11-12 gt is a time bomb. It did scare me at one point till I realized it was just a couple of people repeatedly posting it. Same guy that calls the 10-12 tail a diaper rear end every few moments. There are a lot of 11-12 out there, including mine, that run well.
Yeah that's me - I have a right to my opinion just like you do. I have read a number of threads over the last few years about #8 because mechanical issues interest me more than the more common bs threads that now dominate TMS. This used to be a pretty good mechanical site. Search your heart out and see what you find. Other Mustang forums too.
Members like Marz and Overboost were of great help with posting the 13/14 improvements once they were allowed to go public. Ford did not make the number of changes they did just to appease those that want to buy an aftermarket tune. They engineered changes so as to avoid further warranty expenses.
When newbies inquire I let them know that there are reasons for concern. What they do with that info is up to them. I am in no way a Ford basher, but people should know the history of the early 5.0, trans, and clutch issues. That's what Forums are for. With complete information, people can make reasonable decisions. Would you rather sweep the problem under the rug?
Buying a used 11/12 (assuming one can stand the fugly diaper mobile
) is a gamble because you don't know how the previous owner drove it or if he tuned it. If you could buy a new one still - and break it in and drive it according to your own way - that's a different story.
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/2/14 at 12:13 AM.
1/2/14, 03:28 AM
#10
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I tuned my car (12' auto) with the Steeda 93 octane tune & cai at 1,000 miles during the first oil change (Mobil 1 EP). I beat on the car seating the rings when I drove it off the lot with 3 miles. If the car was going to break, it was going to do it the first 1,000 miles. It had zero issues during my 1,000 mile break in. The car obviously had no factory flaws in the engine so a reputable tuner would do nothing but enhance the car's performance. The car now has 22,000 miles and couldn't be stronger.
1/2/14, 06:41 AM
#11
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Cdynaco--Since you take forums as your facts then over at svt performance there are 2013's with the #8 failure. Soooo not just 11-12's.
Can't you have the dealer check to see if it's been flashed? Pretty sure. I chose the 12 over the 13 because I'm one of the guys that prefer the styling over the 13. I hate, absolutely despise the 05-09 styling. Looks, in my opinion, like a woman's underpowered car. Any 11-14 is a drastic upgrade from styling to performance. OP-look at them both, drive them, inspect them, and go with what you like best.
I never buy used. I will never buy used. Due to people that know something's wrong with the vehicle and trade it in. Many people on forums admit doing this. I have no clue how they treated their vehicle. Buying used is a gamble and a risk I'm not willing to take. The exception is if I know the person and already know the car.
Can't you have the dealer check to see if it's been flashed? Pretty sure. I chose the 12 over the 13 because I'm one of the guys that prefer the styling over the 13. I hate, absolutely despise the 05-09 styling. Looks, in my opinion, like a woman's underpowered car. Any 11-14 is a drastic upgrade from styling to performance. OP-look at them both, drive them, inspect them, and go with what you like best.
I never buy used. I will never buy used. Due to people that know something's wrong with the vehicle and trade it in. Many people on forums admit doing this. I have no clue how they treated their vehicle. Buying used is a gamble and a risk I'm not willing to take. The exception is if I know the person and already know the car.
Last edited by Thamac15; 1/2/14 at 06:50 AM.
1/2/14, 10:04 AM
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Can't you have the dealer check to see if it's been flashed? Pretty sure. I chose the 12 over the 13 because I'm one of the guys that prefer the styling over the 13. I hate, absolutely despise the 05-09 styling. Looks, in my opinion, like a woman's underpowered car. Any 11-14 is a drastic upgrade from styling to performance. OP-look at them both, drive them, inspect them, and go with what you like best.
I never buy used. I will never buy used. Due to people that know something's wrong with the vehicle and trade it in. Many people on forums admit doing this. I have no clue how they treated their vehicle. Buying used is a gamble and a risk I'm not willing to take. The exception is if I know the person and already know the car.
Fair enough. To each their own like I said. But the OP is asking about a used 12.
And I reiterate... why did Ford do all the testing and engineering for a redesign for the 13+ pistons if there wasn't a problem with the initial design in the 11/12's that was costing them unplanned expenses under warranty?
Was it really just for aftermarket tuners? (While simultaneously issuing the TSB warning owners that aftermarket tunes void factory warranties.)
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/2/14 at 10:09 AM.
1/2/14, 10:29 AM
#13
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Does Ford still say your warranty is voided with aftermarket mods and tunes or did they fix the engine issues with the redesign in the 13-14s that makes it ok to mod/tune and still keep the warranty?
Last edited by Thamac15; 1/2/14 at 10:35 AM.
1/2/14, 10:43 AM
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1/2/14, 10:46 AM
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I don't know about mods in general (I believe that's only if a mechanical problem was caused by the mods during Ford's warranty period) - but the TSB was pretty specific about tunes. Apparently the newer ECU starting with the 5.0 tells them if its been flashed. A number of threads about that.
1/2/14, 11:24 AM
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Whereas personally I would never buy a tune from Brenspeed as they left some of their tune customers who blew #8 high and dry. There's a long thread here about one guy's experience through the whole ordeal. Brand new car (12), brand new engine, thousands for a rebuild (on top of his new car pmt), zero help from Brenspeed.
Remember these are powdered metal shake and bake hypereutectic pistons. If you look at the fail pictures many of those #8 pistons were melted at the lands on the exhaust port side. Not all had damage to the top. Others had damage to the top of the pistons from detonation. Why only #8 and not #4 also (both back of the engine compartment) I have no idea.
I would guess that the new coatings help withstand heat better (perhaps also strengthen the piston to withstand mild detonation better?), and the redesigned oil control rings (with added ports in the lands) help cool the pistons - perhaps better than the under skirt oil squirters (although there may be other reasons for their deletion [Cost? Windage prevented peak performance at high rpm? Perhaps inconsistent 'squirts' at high rpm? Oil pressure issues at high rpm?
]). I have never read where they redesigned the cooling jackets in the head or block for the 13/14. (Although Ford does mention some head changes for the 15 5.0.)
Last edited by cdynaco; 1/2/14 at 11:54 AM.
1/2/14, 11:49 AM
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Because otherwise their tune business would have died if they didn't do something since they were one of the tuners that had failures reported. I haven't read it in a few years but as I remember it they were very specific to warranty problems only caused by their tune such as detonation - not for defective or weak (or melted) factory parts. You'll have to read it yourself. And obviously they (and others) backed their tune down from what it was at first. Some say the tuner's problem was at first they disconnected the knock sensors. But that doesn't explain the (relatively few in comparison) factory failures. Whereas personally I would never buy a tune from Brenspeed as they left some of their tune customers who blew #8 high and dry. There's a long thread here about one guy's experience through the whole ordeal. Brand new car (12), brand new engine, thousands for a rebuild (on top of his new car pmt), zero help from Brenspeed. Remember these are powdered metal shake and bake hypereutectic pistons. If you look at the fail pictures most of those #8 pistons were melted at the lands on the exhaust port side. Not all had damage to the top. Others had damage to the top of the pistons from detonation. Why only #8 and not #4 also (both back of the engine compartment) I have no idea. I would guess that the new coatings help withstand heat better (perhaps also strengthen the piston to withstand mild detonation better?), and the redesigned oil control rings (with added ports in the lands) help cool the pistons - perhaps better than the under skirt oil squirters (although there may be other reasons for their deletion [Cost? Windage prevented peak performance at high rpm? Perhaps inconsistent 'squirts' at high rpm? Oil pressure issues at high rpm? ]). I have never read where they redesigned the cooling jackets in the head or block for the 13/14. (Although Ford does mention some head changes for the 15 5.0.)
Remember these are powdered metal shake and bake hypereutectic pistons. If you look at the fail pictures most of those #8 pistons were melted at the lands on the exhaust port side. Not all had damage to the top. Others had damage to the top of the pistons from detonation. Why only #8 and not #4 also (both back of the engine compartment) I have no idea. I would guess that the new coatings help withstand heat better (perhaps also strengthen the piston to withstand mild detonation better?), and the redesigned oil control rings (with added ports in the lands) help cool the pistons - perhaps better than the under skirt oil squirters (although there may be other reasons for their deletion [Cost? Windage prevented peak performance at high rpm? Perhaps inconsistent 'squirts' at high rpm? Oil pressure issues at high rpm? ]). I have never read where they redesigned the cooling jackets in the head or block for the 13/14. (Although Ford does mention some head changes for the 15 5.0.)Last edited by Thamac15; 1/2/14 at 05:47 PM.
1/2/14, 05:21 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I had heard of some changes but didn't know as I haven't been following the 5.0l modular engine development. After looking at the pictures of the different pistons the FC piston, which I assume is the latest, has a groove cut under the ring land which I can't see as an improvement but a weak spot. I'm no engineer though. What concerns me is that the Boss pistons are forged for roughly 30 hp more. Ford should just run forged in all the 5.0's like they used to on the Fox bodies but maybe they don't want cold piston slap or they're a lot more expensive than hyper.