2014 V6 fuel octane question
4/22/15, 07:48 PM
#1
Bullitt Member
Thread Starter
2014 V6 fuel octane question
I have had my 2014 SGM V6 for almost a year now and have about 1700 miles (I plan on driving her more this season) on her. My question is this, will running a higher octane (91 or 93) improve my performance or help her run better? I only have a cold air intake and Roush exhaust. Once my warranty is up, I do plan on getting a tune. Thanks for the advice!!
4/23/15, 02:28 AM
#4
Technically yes, higher octane will improve hp. These dyno results have been tested and proven by AM. Modern engines are able to adjust spark/timing/ignition based on fuel octane and thus offer some more hp. Is it worth it to run 91 octane? Probably not.
I run 91 octane in my 5.0, but thats a different story. That car makes 420hp on 91, and ford fuel economy ratings are based on 91 octane. With 87 octane it makes around 412hp.
I run 91 octane in my 5.0, but thats a different story. That car makes 420hp on 91, and ford fuel economy ratings are based on 91 octane. With 87 octane it makes around 412hp.
4/23/15, 07:05 AM
#6
Mach 1 Member
Technically yes, higher octane will improve hp. These dyno results have been tested and proven by AM. Modern engines are able to adjust spark/timing/ignition based on fuel octane and thus offer some more hp. Is it worth it to run 91 octane? Probably not.
I run 91 octane in my 5.0, but thats a different story. That car makes 420hp on 91, and ford fuel economy ratings are based on 91 octane. With 87 octane it makes around 412hp.
I run 91 octane in my 5.0, but thats a different story. That car makes 420hp on 91, and ford fuel economy ratings are based on 91 octane. With 87 octane it makes around 412hp.
John
John
4/23/15, 08:49 AM
#7
Cobra Member
And something most people do not take into consideration when electing to save a few bucks each fill up, most top tier, high octane fuels have much better detergents added to them which keeps the fuel system, combustion chambers and valves cleaner. Carboned up chambers and valve heads can rob a lot of power from the engine. Now ask yourself if running the least expensive fuel is worth it...
John
John
John
John
90% of the time, I will buy 87 octane from my local Costco gas station. They advertise 3x more detergent in all grades of gas over the competition. Is that true? I have no idea, I'd like to believe it is.
91 octane is on average 13+ cents a liter more than 87 octane, resulting in a minimum of $10-15 more per fill up. considering I can fill up nearly twice a week, just doesn't justify spending the extra $$$ per week in fuel while not having a tune on my car.
If I had a tune, that would mean that I'd be ready to spend the extra $$$ on higher octane fuel. Otherwise, its just not worth it IMO.
4/23/15, 08:58 AM
#8
Bullitt Member
Is this from your expertise in the field.
I run premium and I think it likes it, especially near the higher rpm range. In my opinion, I think for the extra 20 to 30 cents a gallon, its worth it. If you've had your car a year now and only have 1700 miles I think it wouldn't hurt to run premium.
I run premium and I think it likes it, especially near the higher rpm range. In my opinion, I think for the extra 20 to 30 cents a gallon, its worth it. If you've had your car a year now and only have 1700 miles I think it wouldn't hurt to run premium.
4/23/15, 09:41 AM
#9
Cobra Member
I've thought about a tune but for improved throttle response, not more power. I realize you get more power with a tune and that's fine, but the V6 has plenty of power. It's the lag in throttle response that bugs me. As far as an additional 7 HP from running 93 vs 87, that's about 2.3% and (at least to me) not worth over 20 cents a gallon more.
4/23/15, 02:52 PM
#12
Mach 1 Member
Only if the cars ECM has the ability to advance timing according to knock sensor input so it can use the additional power that can be achieved with higher octane fuel. Keep in mind 93 = 87 in total available energy. They both begin life from the same 87 octane base stock. Additives introduced to the base stock at the tanker fill station are what determine the fuels octane rating and detergent package. Most brands typically have their own proprietary recipe. The cheaper the gas is chances are it has the least additive it needs to just to squeak by.
Octane rating is simply a measure of how much heat and pressure the air/fuel charge can withstand before detonating. It’s a dynamic curve with very defined end points. In other words, detonation may not occur at grossly extended timing numbers in a cold engine while similar timing in a moderately warm engine will sound like Ricky Ricardo’s maracas’ in full swing. Ignition timing is a function of how well the engine can capitalize on the fuels available energy. Adding timing adds power because the combusting air/fuel mixture has more time to build pressure. Greater cylinder pressure means more force is applied to the piston, connecting rod and crank. Force applied to the crank is torque. More torque equals more HP. Remember, your engine produces TORQUE not HP. The engines HP is calculated from the torque number it achieved on the dyno, 'cause all a dyno can measure is torque. Anyway, many cars are set to near max timing on lower octane fuel and can only pull timing when the knock sensors detect detonation. In that case, using 93 would be a waste of money. That’s one of the strategies the engineers use to get good mileage. Our 5.0's can increase timing from the normal algorithm. In a situation where you’re running 93 octane and still getting detonation, one possibility out of many is the combustion chamber surfaces are carbon riddled and will not allow the engine to run as much timing since the carbon creates hotspots that overheat and detonate the charge after the ignition has already lit the flame. To kill the detonation the ECM has to pull timing which allows the combustion chamber surfaces to cool. This is effective since the time under increased pressure and ensuing temperature are relieved…but the reduced cylinder pressure as a result also means less torque/hp. There are many other scenarios that lead to detonation. I used the one above as an instance only since a lot of you seem to think there is no value in better grades of fuel. Your choice of course…it’s great to live in America where such first world decisions are possible!
How much more area under the torque and HP curves 93 gets us in our 5.0’s as opposed to 87 I'm not sure as I've not seen side by side curves between the two on the same stock engine. If it's only an increase at the very top of each curve, it's not important to me since I'm rarely at those crank speeds and when I am, it's only for an extremely short duration. The better detergent packages typically offered only in premium grade fuel is a good enough reason for me to run it.
Cheers,
John
Octane rating is simply a measure of how much heat and pressure the air/fuel charge can withstand before detonating. It’s a dynamic curve with very defined end points. In other words, detonation may not occur at grossly extended timing numbers in a cold engine while similar timing in a moderately warm engine will sound like Ricky Ricardo’s maracas’ in full swing. Ignition timing is a function of how well the engine can capitalize on the fuels available energy. Adding timing adds power because the combusting air/fuel mixture has more time to build pressure. Greater cylinder pressure means more force is applied to the piston, connecting rod and crank. Force applied to the crank is torque. More torque equals more HP. Remember, your engine produces TORQUE not HP. The engines HP is calculated from the torque number it achieved on the dyno, 'cause all a dyno can measure is torque. Anyway, many cars are set to near max timing on lower octane fuel and can only pull timing when the knock sensors detect detonation. In that case, using 93 would be a waste of money. That’s one of the strategies the engineers use to get good mileage. Our 5.0's can increase timing from the normal algorithm. In a situation where you’re running 93 octane and still getting detonation, one possibility out of many is the combustion chamber surfaces are carbon riddled and will not allow the engine to run as much timing since the carbon creates hotspots that overheat and detonate the charge after the ignition has already lit the flame. To kill the detonation the ECM has to pull timing which allows the combustion chamber surfaces to cool. This is effective since the time under increased pressure and ensuing temperature are relieved…but the reduced cylinder pressure as a result also means less torque/hp. There are many other scenarios that lead to detonation. I used the one above as an instance only since a lot of you seem to think there is no value in better grades of fuel. Your choice of course…it’s great to live in America where such first world decisions are possible!
How much more area under the torque and HP curves 93 gets us in our 5.0’s as opposed to 87 I'm not sure as I've not seen side by side curves between the two on the same stock engine. If it's only an increase at the very top of each curve, it's not important to me since I'm rarely at those crank speeds and when I am, it's only for an extremely short duration. The better detergent packages typically offered only in premium grade fuel is a good enough reason for me to run it.
Cheers,
John
4/23/15, 03:25 PM
#13
Is this from your expertise in the field.
I run premium and I think it likes it, especially near the higher rpm range. In my opinion, I think for the extra 20 to 30 cents a gallon, its worth it. If you've had your car a year now and only have 1700 miles I think it wouldn't hurt to run premium.
I run premium and I think it likes it, especially near the higher rpm range. In my opinion, I think for the extra 20 to 30 cents a gallon, its worth it. If you've had your car a year now and only have 1700 miles I think it wouldn't hurt to run premium.
from the experts who build the car. there is no mention of a higher octane increasing power, like it does for the new V8 or ecoboost as an example.
4/23/15, 04:32 PM
#14
All im saying is, no point in running 91 octane in a v6... you wont notice anything significant enough with regards to the extra money youll be paying.
If you want higher octane because you want higher performance, you picked the wrong engine.
If you want higher octane because you want higher performance, you picked the wrong engine.
4/25/15, 07:52 AM
#15
Bullitt Member
I sometimes drive in a more spirited fashion and prefer the added octane for insurance purposes. I have read that the added octane enables the timing to be a little more advanced which will add some horsepower. As far as your comment about the wrong engine I think that isn't the point here. Us v6ers like to get as much as we can out of what we have and they do perform well for what they are. If I wanted the v8 I would have purchased one.
4/25/15, 08:27 AM
#16
Bullitt Member
Join Date: January 14, 2012
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I started running 93 this year. There is a noticeable difference - I wouldn't spend the extra $$ if I didn't notice it. I'll probably only do 87 now on trips where I'm cruising on the freeway all day.
4/25/15, 01:27 PM
#17
I sometimes drive in a more spirited fashion and prefer the added octane for insurance purposes. I have read that the added octane enables the timing to be a little more advanced which will add some horsepower. As far as your comment about the wrong engine I think that isn't the point here. Us v6ers like to get as much as we can out of what we have and they do perform well for what they are. If I wanted the v8 I would have purchased one.
My whole thing was that most v6 guys buy their cars for economy, and not so much for spirited driving. Im not knocking the v6, just saying that spending extra money on fuel is not really worth it compared to what you get from it. The 3.7 was designed for and tested on 87 octane. No reason to keep your timing and spark advanced with 91 to get several hp which you cant feel regardless.
4/25/15, 05:39 PM
#18
Cobra Member
What you said is true, and i touched on it in my first post.
My whole thing was that most v6 guys buy their cars for economy, and not so much for spirited driving. Im not knocking the v6, just saying that spending extra money on fuel is not really worth it compared to what you get from it. The 3.7 was designed for and tested on 87 octane. No reason to keep your timing and spark advanced with 91 to get several hp which you cant feel regardless.
My whole thing was that most v6 guys buy their cars for economy, and not so much for spirited driving. Im not knocking the v6, just saying that spending extra money on fuel is not really worth it compared to what you get from it. The 3.7 was designed for and tested on 87 octane. No reason to keep your timing and spark advanced with 91 to get several hp which you cant feel regardless.
I drive a V6 because i couldn't afford a GT. regardless, my driving style hasn't changed.
4/25/15, 06:31 PM
#19
Cobra R Member
What you said is true, and i touched on it in my first post.
My whole thing was that most v6 guys buy their cars for economy, and not so much for spirited driving. Im not knocking the v6, just saying that spending extra money on fuel is not really worth it compared to what you get from it. The 3.7 was designed for and tested on 87 octane. No reason to keep your timing and spark advanced with 91 to get several hp which you cant feel regardless.
My whole thing was that most v6 guys buy their cars for economy, and not so much for spirited driving. Im not knocking the v6, just saying that spending extra money on fuel is not really worth it compared to what you get from it. The 3.7 was designed for and tested on 87 octane. No reason to keep your timing and spark advanced with 91 to get several hp which you cant feel regardless.
4/25/15, 08:15 PM
#20
Bullitt Member