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2013 review from ex Indy racer

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Old 3/25/12 | 08:58 AM
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2013 review from ex Indy racer

If it's already posted some place ( I did search...) my bad...
The review is from Alex Lloyd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ll...cing_driver%29)

Article: http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...143038804.html


It hasn't been long since I last removed my race helmet, pulled off my gloves, and leaped out of my 650-hp IndyCar. I'm used to speeds in excess of 230 mph and I'm in my element sliding a 1,600-lb missile on wheels through a bend just inches from a concrete wall. One of my jobs, as a race car driver, is to evaluate a car's performance at triple-digit speeds and find its true essence.

My most recent mission: To evaluate the all-new 2013 Ford Mustang — on the city streets of Portland, in the rain.

Growing up, I had a poster of the 1968 Mustang on my bedroom wall, and used to imagine being hurled around the hairpin streets of San Francisco by Steve McQueen in "Bullitt." It's the world's icon for muscle cars, and for 2013 Ford's tweaked the modern Mustang design that draws from that '68 pony car with a dollop of 21st-century aggression.

Ford's engineers have kept pace with the pony car wars by raising the power from the 5-liter V-8 in the GT to 420 hp from 412, while the 3.7-liter V-6 keeps its 305 hp rating from last year. This year's model also sports a 4.2-inch LCD screen featuring Track Apps, which allows the driver to monitor performance measures such as g-forces, acceleration times, and other novelty items that sound wonderful but aren't particularly useful in the real world.

As I climbed into the GT, I was assailed by enough plastic to keep a Beverly Hills surgeon in business for years, with flimsy latches concealing storage bins. The rest of the interior seemed far better finished, from the suede-and-leather seats to the panoramic sunroof. But if I'm buying a new suit at Nordstrom's, why would I finish it off with a pair of Faded Glory flip-flops from WalMart? Clearly some corners had been cut to keep the price tag on the top-end GT to a reasonable $42,075; the base GT starts at just $34,300.

But pressing the start button and hearing the V-8 roar showed that no expense was spared when it came to the engine. The torque twists the car as you rev; I felt like I was holding back a great white shark from a feeding frenzy, desperate to be unleashed.

So, I did just that.

The car channeled McQueen. As I approached a tunnel I rolled down the window, dropped into second gear and let the V-8 snarl. I smirked like a schoolkid sticking a "kick me" sign on the principal's back. A forest of trees blurred into a green haze as the car effortlessly blitzed through its crisp manual gearbox. It was absolutely captivating.

As the wet roads through the mountains began to twist, I got a feel for how this Mike Tyson of a car handled — and, much like Tyson, emotional problems soon emerged. It was as if the front and rear wheels were engaged in a death match, each pair desperately trying to prove that they could cling to the road longer than the other — but the loser of this battle would vary with each turn. This left me unsure of exactly how the car would behave at high speed, and as any race car driver will tell you, that's not a comfortable feeling to have. Even in Portlandia weather, the Mustang had plenty of grip, but you need some predictability. In faster turns, when the front gave way, I could feel the rear tires pushing the car straight on. When the rear did surrender to the front and break loose on tighter bends, it did so with a nasty chattering feel. On power down, the rear tires squirmed like Evander Holyfield grabbing his ear.

The problem remains the Mustang's solid rear axle, a design other sports cars have evolved beyond. Ford defends itself by contending the suspension setup saves money and weight and can go faster on a track, but I just don't buy it. The weight that the axle saves does not overcome its deficits, and with the success of the Chevrolet Camaro, this should have been addressed by now.

To be clear, the handling surpasses most other cars at this price — but it could still be better. The shortfalls are masterfully disguised by its wickedly wonderful surfeit of power. If you're going to spar with Mike Tyson, you need to keep your guard up.

2013 Ford MustangWhile I raced for the wheel of the GT model, Ford had the V-6 on hand as well; for a base price of $22,995, it's a great car with decent performance. However, I wouldn't buy one, because the V-6 is missing what makes the 'Stang so iconic. Your date might be impressed you drive a Mustang, but sooner or later, you'll see a GT and wish you had a V-8.

Maybe it's greedy of me to drive the car from my childhood dreams and wish for just a touch more, but the Mustang became part of history by surpassing expectations. Fulfillment might have to wait for the Boss 302 and 650-hp Shelby GT500, yet as the prices rise, I'd be even less willing to settle for some of the faults in the GT. All that said, this GT still connects with a mighty punch, and there's little else that can deliver similar performance or swagger at $42,000. It's a reminder that driving isn't always about having the best handling and the slickest interior. Sometimes, it's about how a car makes you feel — and at its best, the 2013 Mustang made me feel like Steve McQueen.


Last edited by 2010MustangGT; 3/25/12 at 09:00 AM.
Old 3/25/12 | 09:11 AM
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The 2013 now has a "start button"?

Not a bad review.......in fact probably pretty accurate in that the Mustang is more than the sum of it's parts. It's a living legend
Old 3/25/12 | 09:20 AM
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I like the honest opinion about the live axle, but an Indy car driver wrote, "As I approached a tunnel I rolled down the window, dropped into second gear and let the V-8 snarl...It was absolutely captivating" so 'nuff said for me.
Old 3/25/12 | 12:44 PM
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I suppose it is a stretch to compare the Mustang to the handling of an Indy race car. Compared to the competition, however, I'll take Mustang's handling any day! See these opinions below:

Motor Trend
Live-axle American cars shouldn't be able to smoke Audi S5s in every meaningful way, but here we are. Add another $8000 to that starting point and you've got an excellent convertible. The Camaro, on the other hand, is only half-baked. Yes, its Corvette-heart is world class; without question one of our favorite engines. But then there's all that other stuff I just mentioned. Plus there's the fact that the Camaro is based on an Australian sedan -- not a sports car chassis -- whereas the Mustang is purpose-built.

It's hard to overstate how wonderful the new [Mustang GT] 5.0 is. ...the Camaro is just too flawed to challenge the Mustang's American performance hegemony.

Inside Line
Truly impressive manners from a live-axle car. Balance is good as is typical with recent Mustangs, but there's more than that. There's a true sense of what's happening at the wheels with this Mustang, which provides ample driver confidence. And it's better than the independently sprung Camaro in both tests. Ford is doing something right.

Car and Driver
It turns sharply and holds a precise trajectory through a turn. Although the rear end remains a live axle, the body isn’t tossed off course by pitching pavement or camber changes. In matchups with the independently sprung Camaro, we’ve come away lauding Ford’s decision to stick with the live axle. They have made it work, and if it saves weight and the customer money, so much the better.

Auto Blog
As far as the never ending live rear end vs. independent suspension argument goes, we're saying the following: The 2011 Ford Mustang GT sports the very best solid rear axle in the world. We'd rather have the best solid axle than a mediocre multi-point rear. Hint, hint, Chevy. 'Nuff said.

Last edited by Java2011Mustang; 3/25/12 at 01:05 PM.
Old 3/25/12 | 01:02 PM
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It amazes me that the American auto industry continues to get blasted for weak, cheap feeling interiors when comparatively imports seem to excell in this area. You would think they would read multiple reviews over the years and then make the changes needed to fix this little complaint.
Old 3/25/12 | 01:21 PM
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Not all imports excel in nice interiors, LOL.
"The 370Z GT is less impressive on the inside. The cabin is nicely laid out, but Nissan has clearly cut a few corners to keep costs under control. There is abundant use of cheap-looking plastics, particularly on the dashboard and steering wheel, which features a tacky Z logo and faux metal switches. The car's instruments are a disappointment, too, particularly the petrol and temperature gauges, which are formed of two rows of naff-looking LED dots."
...CNET UK
"[Regarding the 370Z's interior] But too many interior parts remain a silver-painted plastic that would appear much less out of place in a Versa than in a $40,000 sports car."
...The Truth About Cars
However, there are areas where Ford can improve the interior. Ford needs to upgrade the door panels and other interior trim pieces to a "soft-touch" type of material. My Fusion has this ...so it can't be too difficult, right? LOL. The other thing Ford needs to do is add a telescoping function to the steering wheel. I don't know what is so difficult about adding these two features ...folks have been asking for them for a long time and Ford keeps updating the Mustang without these features. The next full-redesign is likely to have these features.

Last edited by Java2011Mustang; 3/25/12 at 01:22 PM.
Old 3/25/12 | 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Fridaze
It amazes me that the American auto industry continues to get blasted for weak, cheap feeling interiors when comparatively imports seem to excell in this area. You would think they would read multiple reviews over the years and then make the changes needed to fix this little complaint.
Other than the hard plastic on the door panels, I really don't see where the interior of the current Mustang is "cheap." Of course, sacrifices undoubtedly had to be made in order for Ford to provide the "poor man's M3" at its intended price point. Is there a 420-horse, $35K import we can compare interiors to?
Old 3/25/12 | 01:51 PM
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As the wet roads through the mountains began to twist, I got a feel for how this Mike Tyson of a car handled — and, much like Tyson, emotional problems soon emerged. It was as if the front and rear wheels were engaged in a death match, each pair desperately trying to prove that they could cling to the road longer than the other — but the loser of this battle would vary with each turn. This left me unsure of exactly how the car would behave at high speed, and as any race car driver will tell you, that's not a comfortable feeling to have. Even in Portlandia weather, the Mustang had plenty of grip, but you need some predictability. In faster turns, when the front gave way, I could feel the rear tires pushing the car straight on. When the rear did surrender to the front and break loose on tighter bends, it did so with a nasty chattering feel. On power down, the rear tires squirmed like Evander Holyfield grabbing his ear.
I'm no race car driver, and don't push any road to the absolute edge to learn where that's at, and certainly not in the rain.
But with my Bullitt - the 13GT would handle even better - there isn't any understeer when under throttle (weight transfer) into the turn. And if you've chosen the correct gear for the curve to keep rpm's in the 4.5 - 6 range, you can throttle steer for a precise adjustment to your line.
I have pushed my fav 2 lane twisties hard and sometimes have drifted out of curves - with the same balance and line. No chatter, no pushing the front end. I have to really work to break traction and bring the rear around on exiting tighter curves. On the few skips I've felt in the rear because of a dip in the pavement in the middle of the curve, they were so brief and I did not have to make any adjustment - because I was under acceleration and the car did it all. I kept the same line I had and exited the curve.

So for an Indy Racer to compare to a street rod and then diss it because it wasn't his open wheeler is a bs comparo. Why didn't he have a track ready Boss? Or is part of his issue the feel of the EPAS?
And to even mention that pig Camaro with its massive understeer is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Java2011Mustang
Auto Blog As far as the never ending live rear end vs. independent suspension argument goes, we're saying the following: The 2011 Ford Mustang GT sports the very best solid rear axle in the world. We'd rather have the best solid axle than a mediocre multi-point rear. Hint, hint, Chevy. 'Nuff said.
This. Absolutely.
I've been driving since 72 on nothing but SRA - in all kinds of weather - 10 yrs professionally with a 5k pass in every direction. Driving an SRA is an easily learned skill - first snow & ice in a big parking lot, then pavement. It reacts the same way every time and it becomes second nature. Now a 'surprise' course correction doesn't even pump adrenalin - you just react and the vehicle responds. Seat of the pants stuff. And better balanced vehicles respond better.

Originally Posted by MARZ
Other than the hard plastic on the door panels, I really don't see where the interior of the current Mustang is "cheap." Of course, sacrifices undoubtedly had to be made in order for Ford to provide the "poor man's M3" at its intended price point. Is there a 420-horse, $35K import we can compare interiors to?
I don't get the whining about plastic.

Last edited by cdynaco; 3/25/12 at 03:21 PM.
Old 3/25/12 | 01:54 PM
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I didnt specifically have the Nissan in mind when I mentioned the interior, you get more of this type of review when they discuss German and Italian cars etc. I also get the poor man's M3 argument as I have seen this before. It isnt just a Ford problem, you especially hear it when they talk about the corvette and for a six digit car you would think that would be straightened out. I just think a touch more attention to detail wouldnt hurt and yes, the telescoping wheel has been an issue for a bit, just like the rear axel as well.
Old 3/25/12 | 02:07 PM
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Omg talk about an article full of cheesy as$ similes. That took away from the whole article.
Old 3/25/12 | 03:26 PM
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Wow, so it doesn't perform like an Indy car?

I didn't know that.

I think Ford did a heck of a good job considering the price tag.
Old 3/25/12 | 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by theACE
Wow, so it doesn't perform like an Indy car?

I didn't know that.
Yeah. And the Mustang turns both directions.
Old 3/25/12 | 04:05 PM
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So let me get this right...

In the review he states:
"2013 Ford MustangWhile I raced for the wheel of the GT model, Ford had the V-6 on hand as well; for a base price of $22,995, it's a great car with decent performance. However, I wouldn't buy one, because the V-6 is missing what makes the 'Stang so iconic. Your date might be impressed you drive a Mustang, but sooner or later, you'll see a GT and wish you had a V-8."

I was surprised that the reviewer chose to ignore the $10k cost difference between the V6 and V8 he quoted in a buying decision. Especially when you read the wiki article, he knows first hand the difficulty in getting finance backing for his racing career. It even mentions as a last effort, his parents sold their house in order to fund his racing career. Well I figure that if someone else was willing to step in and finance the difference between a fully equiped V6 and V8 that most V6 owners would also opt for the V8.

Enjoyed his review from the observations of the Mustang's performance and handling, but his buying opinions are based upon having "sponsors"- welcome to the real world.
Old 3/25/12 | 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cdynaco
I don't get the whining about plastic.
Good post, sir! Agree re the whining about plastic. Although I wouldn't mind having nicer materials, it's not that big of a deal to me in the context of an otherwise great car.

I just returned from the Dallas Auto Show not more than an hour ago and one of the things I specifically looked for in every car I looked at was the interior materials. Almost every car at the show, including upscale cars, had hard plastic for the door panels. I looked at Camaro and all the other Chevy's, VW's, Audi's, Toyota's, Nissan's, Honda's, Acura's, and most, if not all of the interiors, especially the door panels, were hard plastic.

The cars that I recall with "soft touch" materials and felt really nice were the: A8 (the nicest doors I saw at the show ...REALLY nice, in fact!), M-B S-Class, VW CC (other VW's were very cheap), Subaru Legacy (other Subaru's were cheap, hard plastic) and the 2012 Ford Fusion. This isn't a complete list, of course, but the lower level Audi's like the A6 and A5, for example, had hard plastic door panels and didn't impress me at all considering their price range. The Camaro seemed really tacky to me as did the 370Z (looked like it could be the inside of a RubberMaid storage tub). I'll admit I didn't get around to the BMW's.

So, it seems to me that, as far as door panels go, Mustang's materials are pretty much average for the industry. Now, if Ford wanted to be above average, then they could upgrade the door panel materials to something like they already use for the 2010-12 Fusion (I own both a 2010 Fusion and a 2011 Mustang GT). I do think the Mustang Premium model's dash panel and seats (esp GT's 401A and 402A Pkgs) are above average and very nice considering the price range.

On a side note: Ford had the 2013 GT500 at the show (white with black stripes). Looked great, got lots of attention. The back end looked great, loved the quad tips. The black piece inbetween the tail lights looked of high quality to me. Very impressed. Unfortunately, that was the only 2013 Mustang at the show. The other two Mustangs at the show were 2012's - a Grabber Blue GT Coupe and a Kona Blue V6 Coupe. Really disappointed Ford didn't have more 2013 Mustangs there considering the size of the Dallas/Ft Worth auto market. Go figure. The 2013 Fusion ...wwwow! Beautiful car, got lots of attention. It will be a hit when it goes on sale in Sep/Oct this year. New Escape looked very nice, too.

Last edited by Java2011Mustang; 3/25/12 at 07:12 PM.
Old 3/25/12 | 08:11 PM
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Just back up the Simile Truck and vomit out the prose. It's not funny, it's not clever. Whatever valid points exist in this article are wasted under a mountain of Mike Tyson's s**t. See I can do vapid metaphors too. Can I has job?
Old 3/26/12 | 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cdynaco

So for an Indy Racer to compare to a street rod and then diss it because it wasn't his open wheeler is a bs comparo. Why didn't he have a track ready Boss? Or is part of his issue the feel of the EPAS?
And to even mention that pig Camaro with its massive understeer is ridiculous.

Thats what I took from the article after reading it this morning in the library. To bad I was using my tablet, could've saved a few trees before I flushed


I've been driving since 72 on nothing but SRA - in all kinds of weather - 10 yrs professionally with a 5k pass in every direction. Driving an SRA is an easily learned skill - first snow & ice in a big parking lot, then pavement. It reacts the same way every time and it becomes second nature. Now a 'surprise' course correction doesn't even pump adrenalin - you just react and the vehicle responds. Seat of the pants stuff. And better balanced vehicles respond better.

I concur, with few exceptions (a used FWD car or two), I earned my chops on SRA cars. Granted, this does tend to be a bit myopic so when somebody comes running into a thread talking about the dangers of permanent back injury (true story from this website no less), imminent death due to "mid-corner" (there are other kinds) bumps, and water, turns and a live axle being a dangerous combination you can rest assured I'm having a real "WTF" moment.

I don't get the whining about plastic.
I think this is supposed to add legitimacy to the review in the eyes of the reader; "Cheap plastic in an american car! This guy knows what he's talking about".
Old 3/30/12 | 10:26 PM
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When he said, "but pressing the start button", I just had to

I agree, by all means keep improving, be it the interior etc etc etc, but what is the obsession with plastic? I have more important things to consider.
Old 3/31/12 | 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 100$ GUY
When he said, "but pressing the start button", I just had to

I agree, by all means keep improving, be it the interior etc etc etc, but what is the obsession with plastic? I have more important things to consider.
I happen to like the interior. And it has aluminum. Compared to the bmws faux metal...
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