RX-8 gets a bit of an upgrade
1/6/06, 05:37 PM
#3
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I agree that a higher performance model needs to be built and I'm sure we'll see a MazdaSpeed version sometime that is turbocharged but all in all 238 Hp for a 1.3 L rotary engine isn't that bad to me. That's equivalent to 183.08 horsepower (rounded off) per liter.
They did build a concept in 03 so its not that far fetched....
2003 MazdaSpeed RX-8 Concept
They did build a concept in 03 so its not that far fetched....
2003 MazdaSpeed RX-8 Concept
1/6/06, 07:30 PM
#4
Actually, I would rather Mazda simply ditch the RX-8 and replace it with a proper RX-7. The existing RX-8 platform is a great starting point. Mazda simply needs to lose the quasi 4 door concept, the goofy styling, and drop a 3-rotor version of the Renesis under the hood. That would leave room for a MX-5 based RX-5 coupe packing the current 2-Rotor Renesis. Both cars need a turbo option, if not standard turbos, btw.
1/6/06, 09:17 PM
#5
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From an enthusiast standpoint, Werd to the above post. But from a marketing standpoint, the RX-8 is doing just fine. Though, it's good to see Mazda isn't completely 'okay' with their car sucking in a straight line.
Oh yeah, especially since the M-speed6 is faster...
Oh yeah, especially since the M-speed6 is faster...
1/12/06, 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by jsaylor@January 6, 2006, 8:33 PM
Actually, I would rather Mazda simply ditch the RX-8 and replace it with a proper RX-7. The existing RX-8 platform is a great starting point. Mazda simply needs to lose the quasi 4 door concept, the goofy styling, and drop a 3-rotor version of the Renesis under the hood. That would leave room for a MX-5 based RX-5 coupe packing the current 2-Rotor Renesis. Both cars need a turbo option, if not standard turbos, btw.
Actually, I would rather Mazda simply ditch the RX-8 and replace it with a proper RX-7. The existing RX-8 platform is a great starting point. Mazda simply needs to lose the quasi 4 door concept, the goofy styling, and drop a 3-rotor version of the Renesis under the hood. That would leave room for a MX-5 based RX-5 coupe packing the current 2-Rotor Renesis. Both cars need a turbo option, if not standard turbos, btw.
i think you're onto something
1/12/06, 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by jsaylor@January 6, 2006, 6:33 PM
Actually, I would rather Mazda simply ditch the RX-8 and replace it with a proper RX-7. The existing RX-8 platform is a great starting point. Mazda simply needs to lose the quasi 4 door concept, the goofy styling, and drop a 3-rotor version of the Renesis under the hood. That would leave room for a MX-5 based RX-5 coupe packing the current 2-Rotor Renesis. Both cars need a turbo option, if not standard turbos, btw.
Actually, I would rather Mazda simply ditch the RX-8 and replace it with a proper RX-7. The existing RX-8 platform is a great starting point. Mazda simply needs to lose the quasi 4 door concept, the goofy styling, and drop a 3-rotor version of the Renesis under the hood. That would leave room for a MX-5 based RX-5 coupe packing the current 2-Rotor Renesis. Both cars need a turbo option, if not standard turbos, btw.
1/17/06, 10:43 AM
#8
Originally posted by TehSLeeper@January 12, 2006, 11:23 PM
As cool and innovative as Rotary engines are, they're unreliable. They absolute gobble up oil, and they get terrible mileage. They blow seals all the time, many cars have to have engines completely changed out. Adding a turbo only adds to the unreliability. It's a good road race engine with interesting and good characteristics but it suffers from terrible reliability. The RX-8 is better off being a car that handles extremely well and in N/A form. Mazda lost a ton of money on the 3rd gen RX-7, the first gen RX-7 was really just a ripoff of, at that time, the current porsche 928 and that body style. Just look at the hp per liter, it's insane. That's cool and all but that just means it's going to have problems with such high reving parts and high hp with a small displacement. Better styling and a turbo option would be nice, but it's only going to cost Mazda more money having to deal with the reliability problems that come with FI Rotary engines.
As cool and innovative as Rotary engines are, they're unreliable. They absolute gobble up oil, and they get terrible mileage. They blow seals all the time, many cars have to have engines completely changed out. Adding a turbo only adds to the unreliability. It's a good road race engine with interesting and good characteristics but it suffers from terrible reliability. The RX-8 is better off being a car that handles extremely well and in N/A form. Mazda lost a ton of money on the 3rd gen RX-7, the first gen RX-7 was really just a ripoff of, at that time, the current porsche 928 and that body style. Just look at the hp per liter, it's insane. That's cool and all but that just means it's going to have problems with such high reving parts and high hp with a small displacement. Better styling and a turbo option would be nice, but it's only going to cost Mazda more money having to deal with the reliability problems that come with FI Rotary engines.
Except for the seal problems rotaries have essentially been a tuners dream. Very few moving parts and very little stress on most of those components due to the nature of combustion. Since the cylinders never have to reverse direction the shock on components like the rotor itself is far less than on a piston in a supercharged engine. Rebuilding a rotary is comparatively cheap and relatively easy.
Now that the major rotary maintenance issue has been addressed with modern technology I see no reason to avoid a boosted production rotary. I say bring on the turbocharged sewing machines from Hades.!
1/17/06, 11:40 AM
#9
Needs to be more Astony
Originally posted by TehSLeeper@January 12, 2006, 10:23 PM
As cool and innovative as Rotary engines are, they're unreliable. They absolute gobble up oil, and they get terrible mileage. They blow seals all the time, many cars have to have engines completely changed out. Adding a turbo only adds to the unreliability. It's a good road race engine with interesting and good characteristics but it suffers from terrible reliability. The RX-8 is better off being a car that handles extremely well and in N/A form. Mazda lost a ton of money on the 3rd gen RX-7, the first gen RX-7 was really just a ripoff of, at that time, the current porsche 928 and that body style. Just look at the hp per liter, it's insane. That's cool and all but that just means it's going to have problems with such high reving parts and high hp with a small displacement. Better styling and a turbo option would be nice, but it's only going to cost Mazda more money having to deal with the reliability problems that come with FI Rotary engines.
As cool and innovative as Rotary engines are, they're unreliable. They absolute gobble up oil, and they get terrible mileage. They blow seals all the time, many cars have to have engines completely changed out. Adding a turbo only adds to the unreliability. It's a good road race engine with interesting and good characteristics but it suffers from terrible reliability. The RX-8 is better off being a car that handles extremely well and in N/A form. Mazda lost a ton of money on the 3rd gen RX-7, the first gen RX-7 was really just a ripoff of, at that time, the current porsche 928 and that body style. Just look at the hp per liter, it's insane. That's cool and all but that just means it's going to have problems with such high reving parts and high hp with a small displacement. Better styling and a turbo option would be nice, but it's only going to cost Mazda more money having to deal with the reliability problems that come with FI Rotary engines.
Unlike a piston engine you have to let the engine warm up to operating temp everytime you turn the car on!
Also you have to beat on the engine, run it to redline at least once a day to reduce carbon.
But if you do everything properly the engine will last a very long time.
1/17/06, 12:38 PM
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But the problem is, no one knows how to take care of cars and automakers know that. So Mazda is the only company willing to take a reputation risk by selling an "unreliable" rotary engine. If the average buyer wasnt an idiot, I think we would see alot more rotaries--which would be cool.
1/19/06, 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by AnotherMustangMan@January 17, 2006, 1:41 PM
But the problem is, no one knows how to take care of cars and automakers know that. So Mazda is the only company willing to take a reputation risk by selling an "unreliable" rotary engine. If the average buyer wasnt an idiot, I think we would see alot more rotaries--which would be cool.
But the problem is, no one knows how to take care of cars and automakers know that. So Mazda is the only company willing to take a reputation risk by selling an "unreliable" rotary engine. If the average buyer wasnt an idiot, I think we would see alot more rotaries--which would be cool.
1/19/06, 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by Knight@January 17, 2006, 10:43 AM
Ok the problem with Rotaries is that people don't know how to drive a rotary car. They are not unreliable...in fact they are one of the most reliable engines ever made.
Unlike a piston engine you have to let the engine warm up to operating temp everytime you turn the car on!
Also you have to beat on the engine, run it to redline at least once a day to reduce carbon.
But if you do everything properly the engine will last a very long time.
Ok the problem with Rotaries is that people don't know how to drive a rotary car. They are not unreliable...in fact they are one of the most reliable engines ever made.
Unlike a piston engine you have to let the engine warm up to operating temp everytime you turn the car on!
Also you have to beat on the engine, run it to redline at least once a day to reduce carbon.
But if you do everything properly the engine will last a very long time.
You point out you have to take care of a rotary, that's apart of the problem. In actuality the rotary is a more high maitainence engine than a piston engine. That's bad. If I have to do more than change the oil every 3,000 miles and get my engine checked something's wrong. You won't see more rotaries for this reason.
I could care less about waiting for the engine to warm up, rotary engines are heck on earth to tune and the smallest change in environment can completely blow an engine. I've talked for awhile with a tech who's worked with rotaries for a long time. He has his own FC RX7, funny it has an LS1 in it. He talked about how he used to swear by the rotary until he started working on them. They're fragile and finicky, better suited for the race course than everyday.
Rotaries are cool and innovative but I like my torque/mileage/reliability.
1/19/06, 09:27 AM
#13
Needs to be more Astony
Originally posted by TehSLeeper@January 19, 2006, 1:36 AM
People don't know how to drive a rotary car? How exactly do you drive one. They are unreliable, the RX-8's are plagued with reliability issues. Take a look at C&D long term test for example. How many Turbo RX7's do you see beyond 90-100k miles on the clock? After that amount of time the engine is shot.
You point out you have to take care of a rotary, that's apart of the problem. In actuality the rotary is a more high maitainence engine than a piston engine. That's bad. If I have to do more than change the oil every 3,000 miles and get my engine checked something's wrong. You won't see more rotaries for this reason.
I could care less about waiting for the engine to warm up, rotary engines are heck on earth to tune and the smallest change in environment can completely blow an engine. I've talked for awhile with a tech who's worked with rotaries for a long time. He has his own FC RX7, funny it has an LS1 in it. He talked about how he used to swear by the rotary until he started working on them. They're fragile and finicky, better suited for the race course than everyday.
Rotaries are cool and innovative but I like my torque/mileage/reliability.
People don't know how to drive a rotary car? How exactly do you drive one. They are unreliable, the RX-8's are plagued with reliability issues. Take a look at C&D long term test for example. How many Turbo RX7's do you see beyond 90-100k miles on the clock? After that amount of time the engine is shot.
You point out you have to take care of a rotary, that's apart of the problem. In actuality the rotary is a more high maitainence engine than a piston engine. That's bad. If I have to do more than change the oil every 3,000 miles and get my engine checked something's wrong. You won't see more rotaries for this reason.
I could care less about waiting for the engine to warm up, rotary engines are heck on earth to tune and the smallest change in environment can completely blow an engine. I've talked for awhile with a tech who's worked with rotaries for a long time. He has his own FC RX7, funny it has an LS1 in it. He talked about how he used to swear by the rotary until he started working on them. They're fragile and finicky, better suited for the race course than everyday.
Rotaries are cool and innovative but I like my torque/mileage/reliability.
The guy you talked to obviously isn't a rotary enthusist if he is going with the LS1 swap... the only reason people do that is cause they don't know enough about rotary engines.
Hey im all for the V8...I love V8 adn probaly would never buy a rotary car. But i can't stand when uninformed people start stating that they are unreliable.
Just make sure to run them to operating temp everytime you turn the car on and beat the crap out of it when you drive it....
1/19/06, 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by Knight@January 19, 2006, 8:30 AM
Rotary engines are much more reliable...lets see, no camshafts, valves, connecting rods...only about 3 moving parts compared to the hundreds that are in a piston engine.
The guy you talked to obviously isn't a rotary enthusist if he is going with the LS1 swap... the only reason people do that is cause they don't know enough about rotary engines.
Hey im all for the V8...I love V8 adn probaly would never buy a rotary car. But i can't stand when uninformed people start stating that they are unreliable.
Just make sure to run them to operating temp everytime you turn the car on and beat the crap out of it when you drive it....
Rotary engines are much more reliable...lets see, no camshafts, valves, connecting rods...only about 3 moving parts compared to the hundreds that are in a piston engine.
The guy you talked to obviously isn't a rotary enthusist if he is going with the LS1 swap... the only reason people do that is cause they don't know enough about rotary engines.
Hey im all for the V8...I love V8 adn probaly would never buy a rotary car. But i can't stand when uninformed people start stating that they are unreliable.
Just make sure to run them to operating temp everytime you turn the car on and beat the crap out of it when you drive it....
The guy I talked to was a rotary enthusiast he assembled, and disassembled rotary engines all the time it was his job. He started working with his own on his RX-7 and it was terrible, he decided to go with an LS1 swap because you can make tons more horsepower safely with a piston engine. To say he's uninformed is way off, you're juding people you don't know. This guy knows more about rotary engines than you'll ever hope to know. With a stock LS1 in an FD RX7 you can hit mid to high 11's easy.
Please don't allude to me being uninformed, when you don't know me at all. What you read may work in theory but in the real world it isn't always true.
Did you ever look at the C&D long term test?
1/19/06, 08:16 PM
#15
Car and Driver Article
The article basically says that the RX7 and RX8 have had crappy records when it comes to failures and what not, confirming what Jonathan said.
The article basically says that the RX7 and RX8 have had crappy records when it comes to failures and what not, confirming what Jonathan said.
1/19/06, 09:28 PM
#16
Needs to be more Astony
Originally posted by TehSLeeper@January 19, 2006, 8:31 PM
That's funny because real world statistics seem to show different. Simply because something in theory is more reliable doesn't make it more reliable in real life. Look at the numbers and the cars out there, you won't come to the same conclusion.
The guy I talked to was a rotary enthusiast he assembled, and disassembled rotary engines all the time it was his job. He started working with his own on his RX-7 and it was terrible, he decided to go with an LS1 swap because you can make tons more horsepower safely with a piston engine. To say he's uninformed is way off, you're juding people you don't know. This guy knows more about rotary engines than you'll ever hope to know. With a stock LS1 in an FD RX7 you can hit mid to high 11's easy.
Please don't allude to me being uninformed, when you don't know me at all. What you read may work in theory but in the real world it isn't always true.
Did you ever look at the C&D long term test?
That's funny because real world statistics seem to show different. Simply because something in theory is more reliable doesn't make it more reliable in real life. Look at the numbers and the cars out there, you won't come to the same conclusion.
The guy I talked to was a rotary enthusiast he assembled, and disassembled rotary engines all the time it was his job. He started working with his own on his RX-7 and it was terrible, he decided to go with an LS1 swap because you can make tons more horsepower safely with a piston engine. To say he's uninformed is way off, you're juding people you don't know. This guy knows more about rotary engines than you'll ever hope to know. With a stock LS1 in an FD RX7 you can hit mid to high 11's easy.
Please don't allude to me being uninformed, when you don't know me at all. What you read may work in theory but in the real world it isn't always true.
Did you ever look at the C&D long term test?
I am not getting my information from books. i have a lot of friends with 9, and 10 sec rx7s that know everything there is to no about rotaries.
You are basing all your unreliabe comments from the dumb average consumer and some idiot doing a ls1 swap.
you think C&D people no jack about it...no they just quote mindless statistics.
Do some research on some real rotary pages and come bcak.
1/19/06, 11:17 PM
#17
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Originally posted by korinwoodo@January 19, 2006, 7:19 PM
Car and Driver Article
The article basically says that the RX7 and RX8 have had crappy records when it comes to failures and what not, confirming what Jonathan said.
Car and Driver Article
The article basically says that the RX7 and RX8 have had crappy records when it comes to failures and what not, confirming what Jonathan said.
1/27/06, 02:05 PM
#18
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Originally posted by Knight@January 19, 2006, 10:31 PM
The Ls1 swap is so over played its rediculous. the swap alone will run you 4k-5k. A ported and turbo swaped Rx7 will cost about 1k in mods and run the same 11 sec 1/4's
I am not getting my information from books. i have a lot of friends with 9, and 10 sec rx7s that know everything there is to no about rotaries.
You are basing all your unreliabe comments from the dumb average consumer and some idiot doing a ls1 swap.
you think C&D people no jack about it...no they just quote mindless statistics.
Do some research on some real rotary pages and come bcak.
The Ls1 swap is so over played its rediculous. the swap alone will run you 4k-5k. A ported and turbo swaped Rx7 will cost about 1k in mods and run the same 11 sec 1/4's
I am not getting my information from books. i have a lot of friends with 9, and 10 sec rx7s that know everything there is to no about rotaries.
You are basing all your unreliabe comments from the dumb average consumer and some idiot doing a ls1 swap.
you think C&D people no jack about it...no they just quote mindless statistics.
Do some research on some real rotary pages and come bcak.
1/27/06, 02:33 PM
#19
Needs to be more Astony
Originally posted by max2000jp@January 27, 2006, 3:08 PM
Played out?? An LS1 swap is great for someone who wants a reliable powerplant. You are spewing false information regarding Mazda rotaries. I've done the research. I've search thru AutoTrader numerous times looking for RX7s and if you pay attention to ones with 60K+ you will find a trend. Guess what that trend is??
Played out?? An LS1 swap is great for someone who wants a reliable powerplant. You are spewing false information regarding Mazda rotaries. I've done the research. I've search thru AutoTrader numerous times looking for RX7s and if you pay attention to ones with 60K+ you will find a trend. Guess what that trend is??
The common person doesn't know how to use a rotary, thats why all of em go out at such low miles is the way average consumers treat them.
1/27/06, 03:06 PM
#20
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Originally posted by Knight@January 27, 2006, 3:36 PM
Oh my gosh not this again....researching an rx7 based on autotrader is like looking for a restraunt menu in a dictionary.
The common person doesn't know how to use a rotary, thats why all of em go out at such low miles is the way average consumers treat them.
Oh my gosh not this again....researching an rx7 based on autotrader is like looking for a restraunt menu in a dictionary.
The common person doesn't know how to use a rotary, thats why all of em go out at such low miles is the way average consumers treat them.
The RX7 is a great handling car. I love the LS1 swap because you get a reliable easy to mod motor.Rotaries are notorious for consuming oil, poor fuel economy, and short life spans. Blaming it on the consumer is a cop out. Average consumers can't do basic maintence.