According to reviews Astra is the best small car GM ever sold in the US.

And the only reason why people like G8 so much is because of RWD. If it had FWD it would be just another car in the group.

 

Since all other European Fords worked so well in the US before (Scorpio, Sierra, Mondeo), what the heck, let's give it another try.

And just out of curiosity, what cars in Europe are similar to those that are selling well in the US? Astra is the same class as Civic and Corolla and one of the best sellers in Europe, how how are sales in N. America? Horrible.
If both Europeans and Americans want a same car, why do you thing that Camry doesn't exist in Europe (other than Russia where Toyota started importing them recently)? Or why are Accord and Civic and Corolla completely different for Europe and America?

 

What is the title of this topic? Ford releases Black Magic edition Focus in Europe
Where does that say anything about the Civic or the Focus beating the Civic's US sales? That's another subject entirely.
I wasn't replying to you when I brought up the Astra
Let's see the Saturn Astra:

• car sold and designed in Europe by US Manufacturer then brought to the US market? CHECK.
• Hatchback? CHECK.

Sounds a lot like the what all the "cool kids" want Ford to do by bringing over the C1 Focus from Europe. It's even a hatchback; the lack of a hatch Focus was another reason the '08 US Focus was supposed to be doomed!

What's this entire topic is about? The Black Magic edition Focus retractable hardtop sold in Europe. Which car is the competitor of said Focus? The VW Eos. What are the sales like for that Focus CC competitor in the US? Why should Ford go to the expense of bringing the Focus CC to US again?
It's more than three months. The Focus has had increases in sales every month since the new design was on the dealer lots in November 2007.

The Focus by itself is not saving Ford, but it plays a large part in helping Ford stay in the running. The Focus, Fusion, Edge and Escape are gaining sales while the F-Series and Mustang declines. Just because you don't like the car doesn't mean that it is not contributing a lot to Ford's bottom line.
It's part of a long term plan. The '08 Focus design runs for a few years until the C2 debuts and the US version of the Fiesta debuts.
I'm more in touch with reality than you are. I never said the '08 Focus would fail because it's so ugly and it's not the European version. I never went on about how ugly it is and how it brought nothing of substance to the table.

I said it's styling is okay and on a par with its competititors , it has a good price, and that SYNC would help it a lot. And guess who was right? (Hint: it wasn't you.)
I don't need to play armchair executive. They've got good people working on it in the real world . Mullaly , Fields, etc. are getting their ducks in a row. Farley is working on improving Ford's image and advertising. The better products are on the way : the Flex, Lincoln MKS, the refreshed F150, Fusion, Mustang...., the Verve/Fiesta, the C2 Focus, GRWD platform, Ecoboost/Twin Force....

 

So is that how you respond when you're losing an argument...flagging my rebuttal as "off topic." Of course it's pertinent to the topic; in no way is it tangential at all.

Read much?

Who the hell cares who you were replying to? It's all part of the same discussion, and you just don't like being shown up...face it.

I thought you weren't replying to me? So NOW you are? OK, got it.

I already expressed my thoughts about the Astra...and there's no way it's as nice as the current Euro Focus. The Opel variant doesn't sell as well as the Focus in Europe, either - go figure.

No, this topic was open for any discussion that happened to follow a generic news piece about Ford releasing the Black Magic edition Focus retractable hardtop in Europe - and naturally, it ran to a GENERAL discussion of what Ford offers over there vs. what it offers over here. YOU were the first person who - naturally - began their usual anti-European rant by tossing the Astra into the mix. And, incidentally, just because the EOS is a niche vehicle pulling in low numbers doesn't automatically portend that a convertible Focus would demonstrate equally low numbers as well...though clearly it is a niche car, too. But using that logic to blanketly suggest all the Euro Fords will tank over here is erroneous and demonstrates a lack of being in touch with reality.

We've only counted three months worth of sales figures, yes? But if you really want those extra two weeks, hey, take 'em. They won't save your argument.

I never said it wasn't. I was comparing short term gain to long term strategy. Ford has the former working for them on select vehicles, no question. It remains to be seen if they have the latter.

I keep hearing this from TPTB - I hope they follow through and expand upon the strategy. Their survival depends upon it.



Oh sorry, I **** near split my sides reading that one!

Umm, let's see: I was right about the styling (by most accounts); I never said there was ANY problem with pricing; and I acknowledged that SYNC was an advantage.

But since being "right" on message boards seems to be the sum total of your existence, I'll let you have that one as a freebie because I'm feeling generous today.

There is admittedly reason for optimism...we shall see what happens.

 

Let's break this down so that you might understand:
Original Topic: Black Magic Edition Ford Focus CC

VW Eos is relevant to this discussion because:

• it is European
• it is a direct competitor to the Focus CC in that it is a retractable hardtop
• it is imported and sold in the US

Saturn Astra is relevant to this discussion because:

• It is European
• It has a retractable hardtop model, the "Twin Top"
• Opel's parent company is GM and is American (like Ford)
• It has been imported and sold in the US as a Saturn, just like the fanboys want Ford to do with the C1 Focus

2008 US Focus is relevant because

• it is the US sibling of the Focus CC
• it was said to show Ford NA's incompetence because they did not import the C1 Ford Focus from Europe

The Honda Civic ?? Not relevant to this discussion. As soon as Honda makes the a retractable hardtop Civic or Honda becomes a American car company that sells Civics in Europe that the people cry about because they don't get them in the US, then the Civic will be relevant to the discussion.


Rhumb brought up the Astra. I replied to his post with Astra sales numbers.. Then your rebuttal to my reply to Rhumb's post was, "I never said a word about the Astra." You sure did "show me up" there, Forrest!

It is customary on these here new fangled internet forums that a reply is often typed under a quote.
Oh really? According to Edmunds
Nope, it wasn't me that originally brought up the Astra, it was Rhumb. I simply provided it's US sales figures.

As the US sales figures for a car that is nearly identical to the Focus CC, the VW Eos, show, it is no mystery why Ford is not importing the Focus CC. It would not be worth the expense to import for the number of sales that would be generated.

The Saturn Astra, a car that is more "mainstream" than a retractable hardtop, is doing even worse!! And GM did exactly what all the Euro fanboys want and brought a sporty European hatch over to the US. But no where did I imply that " all the Euro Fords will tank over here".
Well gee willikers, Forrest, where I come from November 2007 and December 2007 had four weeks each, a total of EIGHT WEEKS !!!! Must be some new fangled European calendar your using.
Uh yeah sure you did, let's refresh our memories:
or this:

It seems really important to you, seeing how you deleted from my quote a link to a post where you dissed the Focus to make it sound like you weren't so down on it!!!

Finally we agree on something.

 

These are numbers until end of November 2007. Only 5,000 difference between Focus and Astra.

1.Peugeot 207 410,156
2.Volkswagen Golf 401,343
3. Ford Focus 379,994
4. Opel Astra 374,240
5. Opel Corsa 373,114
6. Renault Clio 355,990
7. Fiat Punto 352,235
8. Ford Fiesta 331,924
9. Volkswagen Passat 280,121
10 Volkswagen Polo 269,240

 

Meh, the Europeans can keep that one.

 

The Accord in Europe is the same as the Acura TSX in America.

As for the rest of your assertions, sorry, ain't buying 20 year-old logic. The world has moved on...so should you.

I think we've been through this discussion before.

 

I don't know whether to be disturbed or flattered by the enormous amounts of time you devote to attempting to argue with me...even if your assertions rely on out-of-context quotes, half-baked evaluations and antithetical logic.

I don't need to go any further down the rabbit hole with you - the '08 Focus is still a pig with lipstick on it.

 

That pretty much tells you how much more Europeans want from a car and they don't mind paying the extra price.

Their Honda is our Acura.

 

Thanks, more fuel on the fire! How's the heat there BC? Sweating yet?

 

Whenever your past words come back to bite you, you always bring up the "yadda yadda, took a lot of time searching, yadda, yadda" junk to divert attention from what you've said in the past. But goll-lee, this here new fangled internet with it's near instant search capabilities makes refreshing your short memory a snap!

You still can't get over the fact that normal people are buying and enjoying this car you love to hate

 

C'mon now there, slick. Searching, finding and extracting specific quotes to illustrate the exact point you happen to be trying to make takes more than a "snap", and we both know it. It's more like an obsession for you in your quest to prove to everyone on this board that you're right all the time and everyone else is always wrong. Hasn't always worked out the way you'd hoped though, has it?

Your out-of-context quotes from previous replies of mine prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that you apparently have too much time on your hands...and constantly feel the need to try to "one up" me in an attempt to esteem yourself in the eyes of others around here.

(I suppose I could go hunting through the posts YOU made, where you stated I had no business criticizing the new Mustang because I didn't own one - and probably never had any intention of actually buying one. Guess what? Who cares? I don't have the time or inclination and it would be apropos of nothing - just like most of the quotes of mine that you keep citing anecdotally.)

What's "normal"? After a few short months, the new Focus is holding it's own, but hardly setting any standards - which is what Ford needs to be doing across its lineup to survive. And how will it faire in another year? Sure, it's doing better than I expected. So what? No-one expected it to do very well...and for good reason: it's a bland, unremarkable effort. I call the car's success so far a product of "getting lucky"; throwing incentives on the hood; packaging it with SYNC; and the fortuitous (for this car) rise in gas prices, more than I attribute it to any brilliant strategy on the part of Ford.

 

Talk about "obsession"! Isn't funny how you keep coming back for more???

And what can I say? I just got lucky and got a knack for this interweb thing! A few taps of the keys typing words in a little box, clicking the mouse thingy, doing a Ctrl-C here , a Ctrl-V there and and in a few minutes, SHAZZAM! It's not my fault if you "suxxors at teh internet" (I learned that from the cool kids!)

And it must be really sad for you since that there little Focus car you hate so much is not failing after all! How sad, they are even ramping up production.


Gee thanks, Dr. Phil! Nah, I just love arguing on the internet! It's more fun that watching "Dancing with the Stars"! Can I get a room at the Dr. Phil house?


Well it's a good thing folks like me were around to change your mind or you'd be puttering around in a Civic now!
"Normal" as in people who don't sit around arguing about hot hatches and hp per liter and the joys of a soft touch plastic dash all day on the internet. People who are just looking for a nice little car. Kind of like these people.

 

Considering that I own and operate a major website that includes a vBulletin forum component - and chiefly make my living from it - I'm calling bull on that one. I'll bet I've forgotten more about the web than you ever knew, slick. So I have a pretty good idea what sort of time you're spending dredging up quotes from all my old posts.

But you can keep trying to fool everyone else around here if you'd like.

I've noticed that. So has everyone else.

Maybe one day you'll actually get good at it.

If it's a room at Dr. Phil's house you want, well hey, I didn't know you swung that way, but whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Yeah, I'll have to dig out ALL those posts where I was cross-shopping the Mustang against the Civic.

No, wait...why don't YOU do it - you're such an expert at that, after all.

Then you should simply concede defeat and STFU.

Buh-bye now.

 

Well gol-lee Forrest, you own a website with an off the shelf bulletin board package running on it? I guess I'm supposed to ooh and ahh about that ? I've been making a living workin' on that there interweb for a little while myself, and from what I've seen, most site owners aren't , how can I put this gently, the most technically savvy. They mostly just want to know how we can increase their click throughs.
Oh that's a good one! See, I've been developing web interfaces for relational databases for over 10 years now. vBulletin is not bad for a $160 or so software license, but I've personally built apps much more sophisticated than that.

Internet, Intranet, perl, java, asp, domino, .net; been there, done that. I used to be a consultant for a certain big blue company and worked for a bunch of small startups and small development shops building web apps for Bank One, HP, Chevron, Phillips & Computerworld, to name few. Now I'm working for the biggest bureaucracy in the US, still banging out those web apps. So I highly doubt you've forgotten that much unless severe Alzheimer's has set in so bad you need to wear Depends undergarments.
Uh yeah, what ever you say, Vern. Like I said, I'm gittin' purty darned good at this here keyboard, after bangin' on it everyday to make a living for almost 2 decades...
Gee Forrest, I haven't been arguing with myself all this time have I? Funny how you keep coming back for more and then complain about it.
Sorry, but your attempt at a snappy comment has failed. Sheesh, that Dr. Phil's House reference went right over you head didn't it? Sorry, try again.

Oh noes! Did I hit a nerve? I guess it really hurt to see all those mainstream folks saying they really like the 08 Focus over at Edmund's when you and all the kids in the "extremely edgy elite internet auto enthusiasts club" hate it.

 

LOL! Oooooh, a java jockey - I'm impressed...not! Now try not only designing, building and managing a major news website - with a sophisticated CMS that rivals both CNN and National Geographic - but also simultaneously running a staff, sourcing news, interviewing major entertainment and media personalities, liaising with studios to co-develop sophisticated multimedia promotional features, shooting, editing and up-converting professional video, disseminating EPKs for publicity, etc. etc. See, it's all about the content, baby - not just picking at code - and your nose - all day long.

As to vBulletin, sure, it's affordable. Who cares? It's flexible and works well. Sometimes the best solution is not always the most expensive or sophisticated. You should know that as a "web tech"...and Mustang owner.

And the fact that you "get" perl and java doesn't mean you can search vBulletin any quicker than anyone else. Remember, just because you can fix the engine doesn't mean you can drive the car any faster.

I'm not complaining about anything. I'm merely stating facts. There's no erroneous position you can take that I can't punch holes in.

Remember, if you ain't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Why don't you avail yourself of the opportunity right here, right now, to concede defeat, stop your hissy-fits, and prove to everyone that you're no longer the problem.

No, it didn't go over my head. I was making a joke, but you were apparently too busy laboring under the assumption that I didn't "get" YOUR reference, to comprehend my humor. See, my snappy comments never fail. Ever. Which explains why they make you so angry and indignant, and why you write all these 'search obsessive' missives.

I've already addressed that argument, over and over again - no need to belabor the point with someone who isn't listening anyway. Stick a fork in yourself, you're done.

And so am I.

 

Funny how you single out java, something I haven't done a major project in about 3 years, and just one of the many platforms I've done work in.
I've designed, built,and managed major sites before, and I am still doing it. I've built content management systems. But what the do all those other tasks you mention like "running a staff, yadda yadda" have to do with the web? Nothing. Lest we forget you said:



Where is your content without that CMS and the code that displays it? No where. Maybe you could print it out on paper and post it on the bulletin board at the
local supermarket. Running your mouth, bossing people around, and schmoozing doesn't get that content sent to down the pipe to the web browser.

I've dealt with people like you before. Cocky, self-important site owners who think they're gods, until something in the system breaks and their content doesn't display and then they're screaming at the poor tech support guys.

You keep insisting that searching takes soooo long but look here:

It took .15 seconds for the search function to find your idiotic posts. Then about 60 seconds for me to scan through your spiel and copy'n'paste the pertinent quotes. See that's where 16 years of reading and editing thousands of lines of text on a computer screen come in handy.
Picking a smiley to use is more strenuous than that.

And why the heck does it matter how long it takes to do a search and paste a couple of quotes? It does when you are trying to divert attention from the fact that you actually said those quotes!!!
What "facts" have you stated? It's all your non-humble opinion.
Nothing I've said is erroneus.

• FACT: The Saturn Astra aka Opel/Vauxhall Astra in Europe, is selling poorly in the US.
• FACT:The VW EOS sells in very low volumes in the US.
• FACT:The 2008 Focus sells much much better than those two and has had sales increases every month since it was available, although it has been declared a failure by the automotive press and Euro Fanboys.

You ARE the problem; you sure ain't the solution! ANY time anyone brings up the fact that the European cars Ford or GM sell in the Europe have sold poorly in the past in the US and continue to sell poorly in the US, you throw a "hissy-fit". Anytime I remind you about crappy statements you've made in the past, you thow a "hissy-fit" and start saying I have "no life" or "too much time on my hands" for doing a .15 second search.

Then you boast about how you own a major website and that you "forgot more about the web than you ever knew" when I've been building & managing websites, building web apps and building content management systems professionally for 11 years!

And for such a busy, important entertainment industry mover and shaker like yourself, you sure have a lot more posts on this site than I do (over 4000 vs. ~800 for me). Who "has too much time on their hands" ???

And how have exactly I been "defeated"? You haven't said anything that changes anything, except that you've shown us how overinflated your ego is.

Geeze, I thought some big entertainment news site man like yourself would know that if the audience is just sitting their scratching their heads saying "WTF?" then your "humor" has FAILED. Maybe a career in comedy is not for you. But then again, you do have a knack for being unintentionally funny!
Hah, that's what you said last time.