Shaker 500 Archeology
6/14/05, 10:08 AM
#21
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Try here: http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pdfs/6_8W0_MAN.pdf
these are the mounting specs for the 8w0.
8w0-
Mounting Depth- 4.063"
Hole Diameter- 7"
Displacement- .023 cubic feet
8w3v2-
Mounting Depth- 4.31"
Hole Diameter- 7"
Displacement- .035 cubic feet
So...
a differnce of .247" in depth and .012cubic feet in displacement.
these are the mounting specs for the 8w0.
8w0-
Mounting Depth- 4.063"
Hole Diameter- 7"
Displacement- .023 cubic feet
8w3v2-
Mounting Depth- 4.31"
Hole Diameter- 7"
Displacement- .035 cubic feet
So...
a differnce of .247" in depth and .012cubic feet in displacement.
6/14/05, 02:02 PM
#22
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right...the problem is magnet diameter. The 8w0 will probably fit depth-wise, at least; the 8w3 required removal of a little plastic bump where the stock driver motor bolts into the door enclosure. It might still rub as that bump is btw a quater inch and half inch (hard to measure in those tight spaces).
6/16/05, 02:26 PM
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Sure, put it directly to the terminals and only the load shown will be seen. A dual voice coil simply allows multiple impedence wiring- nothing more, nothing less. It technically isn't 2 voice coils, but simply 2 "inputs" to a single winding. If you're still talking the 8 ohm drivers, you'll probably only eke out 25-30 watts from those amps at 8 ohm. That's why I'm trying to find good 2 ohm alternatives- that and I always run my midbasses/woofers with more power than my high range.
6/16/05, 04:14 PM
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OK, so I can just cap off the extra wires? I guess that makes sense...so, technically the amp (if it's a 2 channel) should be sending all available power to each, regardless of how it's wired?
I do want to get more power but I'm waiting to see how these sound. I'm interested in doing a simple kit with a tripath chip...these drivers handle 80W RMS so I'd like to get close, at 4ohms it would be at least 140-150W RMS, yeah?
I do want to get more power but I'm waiting to see how these sound. I'm interested in doing a simple kit with a tripath chip...these drivers handle 80W RMS so I'd like to get close, at 4ohms it would be at least 140-150W RMS, yeah?
6/16/05, 07:49 PM
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Possibly. A good amp with no current limiting SHOULD double the power everytime you halve the impedence. There are limitations, but most will do so until they reach their output limitations. If you're building your own amp, simply set its architecture to give you your optimum power at the load needed. In this case, make it about 100 watts at 8Ohms. That will be one monster amp. If you can afford the power supply for it, you could make it go to 200 @ 4, and 400 @ 1 (PER CHANNEL). If you can build such an amp, I'd be interested in seeing a schematic.
As far asa capping the extra wires, that MAY be possible. But, the factory amps couls also be 2 channel amps that are simply running one channel to each 4Ohm voice coil. I'd have to have one to test to know for sure, unless someone else can provide that info. It WILL work, but your power into the sub may be even less than I thought before. So, there's actually 2 sets of wires inside the enclosure? Or, is there one set running to the sub and a jumper connecting the seperate coils?
As far asa capping the extra wires, that MAY be possible. But, the factory amps couls also be 2 channel amps that are simply running one channel to each 4Ohm voice coil. I'd have to have one to test to know for sure, unless someone else can provide that info. It WILL work, but your power into the sub may be even less than I thought before. So, there's actually 2 sets of wires inside the enclosure? Or, is there one set running to the sub and a jumper connecting the seperate coils?
6/17/05, 03:52 AM
#29
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There are two sets of wires. I find it hard to believe that they would put a 4-ch amp in that tiny case (maybe 3" x 8", didn't measure) but who knows. It would almost make sense if each channel was wired in parallel to both sides, but that would make it a 1-ohm stable amp. Still, it would account for the high power rating. It would seem to me that if I just cap off the second set, they would present a 0 ohm load to whatever they're connected to and fry it. Hence my earlier question about bridging -- would it be possible to wire left positive and right negative?
As for your 2 ohm drivers, I looked at this: http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi...t_id%%&pid=1802 but Josh at Madisound said stick with the Seas.
41hz.com has some nifty amp kits; the one I like has 100w x 2@4 ohm, I think, but requires +30v. Hmmmmm.
As for your 2 ohm drivers, I looked at this: http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi...t_id%%&pid=1802 but Josh at Madisound said stick with the Seas.
41hz.com has some nifty amp kits; the one I like has 100w x 2@4 ohm, I think, but requires +30v. Hmmmmm.
6/18/05, 11:57 AM
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I'm afraid that trying to bridge those amps may just short them, and they may not have short protection- meaning, they'd die. Is there only the 1 amplifier for the 8's? I guess it is 2 channel, and running at 2 ohm. If that is the case, then the potential at either pair of wires is PROBABLY the same. If you have a multimeter, test for continuity between the wires. Take the positive or negative from one pair, and check for continuity to the same wire of the other pair. If there is, then it simply means that it's 2 sets of wires going to the same output terminal of the amp. Tape off one set really well, and let them hang. It won't hurt anything.
6/18/05, 11:37 PM
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BatNastard,
I can very MUCH verify that the JL Audio 8W3 IS a perfect fit for the factory door enclosure (after modifications for the subs motor). I STILL can't believe how good these speakers sound.
Now if I can just get off my tail and install the Polk Audio MMC6500 components I picked up for my front door speakers...
I can very MUCH verify that the JL Audio 8W3 IS a perfect fit for the factory door enclosure (after modifications for the subs motor). I STILL can't believe how good these speakers sound.
Now if I can just get off my tail and install the Polk Audio MMC6500 components I picked up for my front door speakers...
6/18/05, 11:45 PM
#32
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From looking at the wiring diagram, it really does look like each door sub has a 2 channel amp driving it, one channel hitting each voice coil.
And as for the statement about there is only one voice coil, that's only sort of true. All the wire for the voice coil is wrapped on the same form, so if you look at it, it APPEARS to be a single voice coil. But the fact that there are TWO wires inside that coil make it a dual voice coil sub.
You can treat each coil as it's own seperate coil and even drive them with different amps (not just different channels of a multichannel amp) or you can wire them in parallel and drive the sub with a VERY low impedence stable amp. And you can wire the coils in series and treat it like one, high impedence voice coil.
That gives you a lot of flexibility, but you have to be careful. You can't just hook up any impedence load to any amp and expect it to work properly. If you want to get into the real details, you need to study a little electrical theory call "maximum power transfer theory".
The 8W3s fit the factory amp(s) very nice.
And as for the statement about there is only one voice coil, that's only sort of true. All the wire for the voice coil is wrapped on the same form, so if you look at it, it APPEARS to be a single voice coil. But the fact that there are TWO wires inside that coil make it a dual voice coil sub.
You can treat each coil as it's own seperate coil and even drive them with different amps (not just different channels of a multichannel amp) or you can wire them in parallel and drive the sub with a VERY low impedence stable amp. And you can wire the coils in series and treat it like one, high impedence voice coil.
That gives you a lot of flexibility, but you have to be careful. You can't just hook up any impedence load to any amp and expect it to work properly. If you want to get into the real details, you need to study a little electrical theory call "maximum power transfer theory".
The 8W3s fit the factory amp(s) very nice.
6/19/05, 04:11 PM
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Yeah, without actually having a car here to look at makes it really tough for me to do audio questions. I can field the basics, and even apply what I know to what you guys are telling me about the '05. But, until I have my car in hand, I'm just a spectator.
If the door enclosures are truly .3cubes, then the 8w3 should work really well, as you attest. It's almost a perfect sealed box. I'll be going a bit differently on mine. I think I'll port it with a 9kv2- if it'll fit. I can extend the low end and increase the efficiency without changing the electronics- at least it sounds good in theory.
If the door enclosures are truly .3cubes, then the 8w3 should work really well, as you attest. It's almost a perfect sealed box. I'll be going a bit differently on mine. I think I'll port it with a 9kv2- if it'll fit. I can extend the low end and increase the efficiency without changing the electronics- at least it sounds good in theory.
6/19/05, 09:12 PM
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Infinity,
From looking at the door and door panel when I had them off to install the subs, I THINK I should have plenty of room to instally the 6.5" component speakers. There is actually quite a bit of space on the backside of the door panel.
It will require a bit of fiberglass work to build up and adapter to fit the shape of the door to the speakers, but it should be fairly straight forward. I hope. I'll let you know, but the way things are going with the new home, it will probably be 6 weeks or so before I can look at it.
From looking at the door and door panel when I had them off to install the subs, I THINK I should have plenty of room to instally the 6.5" component speakers. There is actually quite a bit of space on the backside of the door panel.
It will require a bit of fiberglass work to build up and adapter to fit the shape of the door to the speakers, but it should be fairly straight forward. I hope. I'll let you know, but the way things are going with the new home, it will probably be 6 weeks or so before I can look at it.
6/20/05, 02:59 PM
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Thank you. If it's anything like my '02, you can just make a baffle out of 5/8" MDF and it'll fit fine. I put 8's in the doors of an '03 using that method. I just had to make my cuts VERY accurate, and then I beveled a couple of edges with the Dremel. It worked great.
6/21/05, 04:33 AM
#37
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Glad to hear the 8w3s sound so good. I got my homebrew separates in and the amps seem to be driving them very nicely. When Madisound delivers my second woofer this weekend I'll run that continuity test and then we'll know for sure about the channels.
I will post pics soon, but here's an initial rundown of the vifa/dayton combo: MUCH better than stock (even my wife was blown away) but certainly not perfect. The vocals are still a little thin as the vifa mids are much lower sensitivity, but at least I can make out lyrics and pick out backing voices now. Very clear overall and great definition. I'm pretty impressed with the dayton tweets, although they're probably not the most natural thing in the world, but they do sound clear and detailed. Volume is no problem, overall it can be a bit bright but not harsh or fatiguing. I still have the treble EQ up a bit to bring out the vocals and open the stage.
Both drivers are a little smaller than stock, so I mounted them w/ poster-tack for now. Ghetto Fabulous! seems ok but I'm open to better ideas. Modeling clay a la diymobileaudio.com? drill new holes? epoxy? double-sided tape?
The only weirdness I can hear so far is that the image gets pulled left a bit now. I'm guessing that the "driver's seat" time alignment really is for the driver and not both front seats? The only solution that comes to mind is to reverse polarity on one tweeter.
Otherwise, best $22 component set ever!
I agree with rrroamer about the depth for 6.5" separates -- there's a lot of room since the brackets are pretty high.
Back to subs/amps -- the Seas CA21RE drivers will fit fine, there's a bit more depth available and the magnet clears by at least a quarter inch. If the subs really are each getting 2 channels, is it worth trying to bridge them or still not a good idea? I think based on the sensitivity these drivers will sound really nice, if I can get a reasonable amount of power to them. If I'm only going to be getting a quarter of the power or so (double the load and half the channels) I'm tempted to look for something DVC or a new amp.
I will post pics soon, but here's an initial rundown of the vifa/dayton combo: MUCH better than stock (even my wife was blown away) but certainly not perfect. The vocals are still a little thin as the vifa mids are much lower sensitivity, but at least I can make out lyrics and pick out backing voices now. Very clear overall and great definition. I'm pretty impressed with the dayton tweets, although they're probably not the most natural thing in the world, but they do sound clear and detailed. Volume is no problem, overall it can be a bit bright but not harsh or fatiguing. I still have the treble EQ up a bit to bring out the vocals and open the stage.
Both drivers are a little smaller than stock, so I mounted them w/ poster-tack for now. Ghetto Fabulous! seems ok but I'm open to better ideas. Modeling clay a la diymobileaudio.com? drill new holes? epoxy? double-sided tape?
The only weirdness I can hear so far is that the image gets pulled left a bit now. I'm guessing that the "driver's seat" time alignment really is for the driver and not both front seats? The only solution that comes to mind is to reverse polarity on one tweeter.
Otherwise, best $22 component set ever!
I agree with rrroamer about the depth for 6.5" separates -- there's a lot of room since the brackets are pretty high.
Back to subs/amps -- the Seas CA21RE drivers will fit fine, there's a bit more depth available and the magnet clears by at least a quarter inch. If the subs really are each getting 2 channels, is it worth trying to bridge them or still not a good idea? I think based on the sensitivity these drivers will sound really nice, if I can get a reasonable amount of power to them. If I'm only going to be getting a quarter of the power or so (double the load and half the channels) I'm tempted to look for something DVC or a new amp.
6/21/05, 04:06 PM
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And someday, when I have $900 to spend:
http://morelusa.com/renaissance/sr-83.htm
http://morelusa.com/renaissance/sr-83.htm
6/21/05, 07:27 PM
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I e-mailed about that set already. You can purchase it from them for ONLY $750. Just a BIT too much for me. I'll stick with DIY sets.
I'd go with new amps. Something like the Memphis/Crossfire Class D's should fit in the stock area (they're kinda long/narrow). Plus, you can get any power range you want- as long as it's under 3000 watts. I'd actually like to see the pair of 8's that could thermally take the power of a Memphis Mojo at 1 ohm.
I'd go with new amps. Something like the Memphis/Crossfire Class D's should fit in the stock area (they're kinda long/narrow). Plus, you can get any power range you want- as long as it's under 3000 watts. I'd actually like to see the pair of 8's that could thermally take the power of a Memphis Mojo at 1 ohm.