a new Cobra!!!!

 

We're not saying that the Mustang Cobra is dead. We're saying that SVT may be dead and the Cobra will end up being just another Ford model.

 

We're not saying that the Mustang Cobra is dead. We're saying that SVT may be dead and the Cobra will end up being just another Ford model. [/b][/quote]
Isn't the SVT Cobra just another Ford model anyways, just with more power and some subtle body, suspension and interior changes?

 

No, SVT is a separate product group. SVT products are sold only through SVT dealers. Not all Ford dealers are SVT dealers. SVT has been it's own little group that has gotten to do real cool things.

SVT has separate literature, separate web site, their own Ts&Cs, etc. I'd imagine that it's real hard to justify a product group that is so small, <30,000 vehicles / year.

 

Yeah, I see your point, I almost forgot about that fact. I should have realized that the performance division of any Ford owned company is like that. I had to get my Protege from a Mazdaspeed certified dealer, which is essentially the same as a SVT authorized dealer.

I didnt want it to sound like i was trying to contradict you, but the point i was trying to make was - in the end its still a Mustang.

 

Rumors of Ford pulling out of Nascar? I'll believe that when I see it.

 

SVT = Performance Mustang

Anybody but SVT = Rice

 

No, SVT is a separate product group. SVT products are sold only through SVT dealers. Not all Ford dealers are SVT dealers. SVT has been it's own little group that has gotten to do real cool things.

SVT has separate literature, separate web site, their own Ts&Cs, etc. I'd imagine that it's real hard to justify a product group that is so small, <30,000 vehicles / year. [/b][/quote]
Exactly. If the Cobra loses the SVT badge you will probably be able to shop more dealers to get it.

 

As I said earlier, everyone needs to relax until we hear otherwise. Its still in development until Coletti or Ford comes up and says "SVT is no more". People inside AAI still don't know any different, so they continue to work on it, so lets just go with the more reliable sources and the facts at this point and stop worrying.

 

My concern would be that despite FoMoCo's overall improvement lately in many respects, as a business it can't justify spending the engineering or production dollars on a handful of cars across two or three product lines to produce the same high-quality, high-performance kinds of vehicles that a dedicated performance arm like SVT can.
The ST Focus and pending ST Fusion are one thing -- borrowing some performance parts from another line and pitching the cars as the performance models of the group. But they remain mass-produced cars, with mass-production engineering tolerances and design compromises.
SVT has done some really outstanding things from an engineering standpoint -- taking some mediocre, mass-production platforms and executing machines fully competitive with the world's best in every respect.
FoMoCo simply can't afford to do the same things with its products.
GM can't, DC can't.
It's just a matter of economics. It's why SVT was established in the first place, why AMG and M thrive and why Mazdaspeed and PVO have arisen lately.
If Ford has to kill SVT to stay alive, then it has to.
But, as others have indicated, it's going to be a tough sell to get me to consider a tweaked ST anything after having been spoiled for a decade now by a world-class engineering outfit in SVT.
In fact, I really wouldn't feel bad moving to a European or Japanese brand now, if Ford really didn't have anything on the same level anymore.
That would be a shame.

 

I know, there is NO indication that SVT is going anywhere. BUT........

Who cares anyway, if they can do a boss or shelby without SVT's name on it, whats the difference. EVERYONE knows SE's are coming for the stang. SVT's job was to rework medeocre platforms and basically UN-price cut the important parts. The SVTF was the only truly sophisticated automobile they had to work with, and the 'tune' worked great by simply upgrading it to European spec performance edition Foci(the ST170 from the NORMAL European Ford line is virtually identical to the SVTF). With very well engineered and adaptable platforms now, why can't Ford take over different versions of the mustang? Bullitt and Mach seemed fine to me with what they had to work with. Team mustang can handle a fine Boss or Shelby in-house with the new car easilly. With IRS and multiple motor choices CAD engineered into the design of the car now, and sophisticated parts available to the F-series like IRS from the Expy, do they really NEED a seperate hot-rod group? They aren't fixing up relatively old platforms with low-tech engineering anymore. The base models are now very sophisticated.

 

Yeah, pro forma(read: "creative") accounting is used by nearly all major corporations. the SEC asks for the reasoning behind their methods every now and then, but nothing ever comes of it. ford won't get in trouble over this.

I can't give an informed opinion on the SVT situation either way b/c I don't have the facts, but they won't cut SVT because of the above reasons.

 

whats funny to me is that if ford doesnt have enough money to make the cobra, then why in the heck are they gonna make that mustang boy racer? ( the last i heard they were going to take orders for it or something like that)

and so what if SVT dies. ford could probably save some money by getting rid of the whole svt divison. ford could still use the svt name and build the same cars, theres just no need for a separate division.

 

Ford needs to expand it's performance and luxury lineups, SVT is good, but it needs to turn a profit.

Look at chrysler for example, chrysler stinked a few years ago, no they are beating Gm and ford in growth.

Why?

They tightned up quality control, and now they are bringing out cars people actually want to drive. Up on the luxury end, The 300c is the hottest new sedan, Pacifica seems to be doing okay as well. Performance end, The Little SRT-4 is being hailed as a performance God in sport compact circles. NEw SRT-8's and the SRT-10(Viper, trucks not bad either) don't hurt either. The Hemi Trucks are selling well and now Jeep is getting new chassis and new engines.

GM, It's letting Chevy Stagante, Saturn stinks, as always, and olds is dead. However it is pumping money into Pontiac, Buick and Caddillac. Pontiac and Caddy are viable companies, not long ago pontiacs were cosndiered real performance machines, and In many peoples minds, a caddy is still the Ultimate in American Lux. Buick needs a major facelift to compete with lexus, and Chevy needs some soul.

Ford on the other hand, is strengthening it's boring cars, while offering little in the fields of performance and Lux. A fock of new Fords coming out, The F series is nice, Explorer and Expidition are nice. However, the excursion is too big, and the expedition has no cargo room with the third row up. The mustang is a bright oppurtunity, but no cobra is going to alienate some folks, and if Gm is smart enough, the New GTO will be smaller, lighter, and better looking with a 500hp Judge filling the spot the Cobra just vacated. Ford needs to look to the New STS and beef up lincoln, and look to BMW's M-sport division and beef up it's performance. M-sport works on two cars mainly, the M5 and the M3, Make the Cobra better, and make a sport compact for the masses, the lightning is a smaler market than a sub 20k pocket rocket.

sorry for the long and mostly off topic rant

 

F-150 is making record numbers and tons of money for the company, the SD is a SMASH HIT completely destroying all competitors(its a 3-ton pickup now!), that is another bread winner. Escape is up 49% in ONE year, And the new Expy's motor makes it MUCH more inline with Tahoes towing(the #1 reason Expy buyers waiver over too chevy-no advertising yet until the 04s dwindle), Ford heavy commercial is going WAY up annually, the mustang is flying off shelves and a few sedans that are actaully attractive to BUILD numbers, not torpedo into oblivion, Ford will make money. Not to mention Hybrid, Ford is garnering tons of attention now. Within a year the numbers should be awesome for a change. If Hurricane makes the truck line in 2 years(can you say 400hp expy and F-series), holy moly it makes every other truck obsolete entirely. All I know is the daily traffic is getting incredible at the dealers just because of the rather conservative commercials for 05's shown so far. The main enemy is supply. I cant wait to see what happens when they go full-bore with all the individual product lines(notice no new NEW FOR 05 improvment ads on pre-existing models, only the 500 and Freestyle so far). SVT is a drop in the bucket expense wise, I think the question is-is it NEEDED?

No lack of excitement either, this fall its MUSTANG, FREESTYLE, 500, HYBRID, SUPERDUTY, GT40

spring summer brings MUSTANG convertible, FUSION

06 brings (most likely) mustang se, redesigned explorer(its going to be uber-slick), F150 harley, upgrade 3.5 power for Freestyle/500-possibly escape(wowsers), all-new Sport-trac(based on the next explorer with 3 bar grille, how cool would that be?)

07 brings (most likely) HURRICANE 400+hp with simillar mileage for trucks, AWD Fusion(and most likely hybrid), SVT COBRA, Redesigned expy with XL version, some mystery "compact unnamed mini suv"(Bronco?? Faction??), 3 bar grille redesigned 500, possibly rwd crown vic replacement(427 style on stretch s197?) Possibly Lightning, New body(tonka) F-super duty, all new focus(awd)

not to mention tons of new lincons, several not sharing Ford/Merc-look parts like aviator. It should be pretty exciting. God forbid they grow ***** and do mustang-based performance coupes for merc-a faithfull Forty Nine for Merc based on the S197 with the Cobra drivetriain would go ballistic for sales. And something sweet for lincoln.

 

Just about Ford's Truck Line.

I went to the fors dealer with my Dad and My brothjer to check out the new Stang the other day and parked outside was a brand new F-150 Lariat Supercrew. Until then my dad had his heart ste on a new Tundra 4 door, but after sitting inside that F-150 and seeing the beatiful interior, the excellent quality of everything, and just how comofortable it was, we plan on getting one within the next 2 years. THat truck his awesoem, I like most of teh cars for has right now, but my only prblem is that the Expidtion has very little cargo room with teh 3rd row up, Barely enough room for a few suitcases, make a Expedition XL or something and Make a Navigator verison of it, I'd buy it over the escalade in a heartbeat. Until then however, The Caddy ESV is the one I woudl choose.

I'm Just saying Ford needs to expands performance and Luxury areas, their basic lines are amazing now.

 

re read my edited post, most of the stuff is directly from Fords official 'timeline', the 'unnamed compact mini suv' is one that is slipped on there. Everyone I know thinks the Bronco lives again. Expy XL is on the way with a big block very soon. The clean diesel fuel upgrade in two years may also open up TONS of additions, Ford has oodles of small diesels in europe already, and the smaller diesel V6 going in the new CAB-over truck(another one I forgot to mention) would fit right in F-series/Expy. The F-150 frame alone is as strong or stronger then 3500 series chevy/dodge now, it only needs more power to become an 11,000 lb towing, 400hp monster '1/2' ton. The new superduties are now full F550 spec suspension tucked under the old 350 shell. Everything BUT the shell is new. Amazing truck. All of Fords truck chassis CRUSH competion, they are only awaiting more power. With better quality and options and first-in-class interiors, Simply more power removes EVERY SINGLE reason for buying any other brand.

Oh and I forgot 07 brings yet another supercar to Ford dealerships, one with the engine in the front and 2 seats

 

Ford is slowly but surely getting very versitile. The MAIN problem with Ford is not having enough POWER throughout the line. The modular 5.4 being so limited to go up in displacement has dragged the company along. The 'new money' finally gave the go-ahead to take on the power war with the old pushrods from gm and dodge. The 3v head makes the 4.6 a STRONG and INEXPENSIVE smaller V8. Natural selection leads me to believe the 5.4, other then for specific performance-car use(thanks to the gt development program) will dissappear completely in a few years. Here is what makes sense.

#1 priority 3.5 Duratec-is HUGE for ford, they need a 250-270hp V6 SO BAD right now. The motor is very stout and smooth when tuned.

#2 priority. 6.2+ hurricane, Ford is stuck going nowhere with 5.4, new block completely changes everything in the truck(and car) world for Ford. Finally gets the go-ahead.

500/Freestyle both share platforms, and the powertrain also fits Escape, 3.5 brings new life to the group and can make them clear class leaders at little additional cost. Boom, all three vehicles become competititive. (merc gets versions to use too)

S197- Very strong platform, big enough and simple to make a cost effective powerful 4-door rwd sedan. Fits 4.0/4.6/5.4(dry sump), most likely 6.2 with no problems. Could make 427-ish vic/merc and lincoln coupes and sedans without much cost. Simply use plug and play IRS and other goodies to vary products.

Mazda 6- Platform makes Fusion/Aviator/Zypher/(whatever the merc will be called). Most likely fits 3.5 no problem, awd capeable, hybrid capeable. Could spawn a small suv too(like bronco) or could also come from reworked escape.

F150/Expy- WAY overbuilt, up to 900% stronger then the old F. Fits every motor, has very sophisticated front suspension. Expy IRS makes all kinds of performance F-150s possible with off-the-shelf parts. Can take diesel engines, Expy can grow longer with no problems.

SD-no problem there, ford spent tons redoing the truck, the body gets completely redone in 2 years just as people get 'used' to the new version. Awesome truck.

GT supercar, mix and match easilly makes cobra roadster or coupe with minimal additoinal cost. 6.2 may make the V10 cost ineffective and could squeak the car to much lower price point. Once the GT is paid for, you can make lego supercars at will.

Explorer: great chassis, a little new-gen tweaking and an all-new body will be a huge sucess. Expect 3v heads to show on the 4.0 and the 3v 4.6. Sport trac moves up to the new platform.

Focus-all new platform to come out in 07. Ford says not based on the new euro foci/mazda 3 platform. You know it will though, they are most likely waiting out development costs and proven time in europe. Awd capeability. The new AWD from the Escape with a beefed up 2.3 turbo could make a heck of a car. And all the pieces fit. Should try to squeak a Merc version in too, the friggin euro foci(and the S40 and Mazda 3)for 05 is quite incredible.

The only real sore spots are the Freestar flop, and the Ranger. I do not know why ford just does not give up on the minvan, market share stinks right now for all versions of them, and they are trailling so bad in sales. Change the plant to make hybrids and mustangs In a few years, figure it out if there is a renewed mv rush and try it again. Ranger needs a redo, but the market is getting smaller for small trucks, as a work truck its fine. They could let it sit for a while on the burner(they are, it may not matter anyway to bother right now). Ad some diesels here and there and make even more money.

They need to make me boss. B)

 

With this great new Mustang platform, does Ford really NEED SVT anymore?

After all, the GT supercar is a Ford - they didn't need SVT to make that rock!

Why can't Ford just do some great SE Mustangs and pump up the power themselves. We had no SVT in the '60s, remember?

I also wonder if SVT further didn't want to compete with the upcoming Shelby Mustang.

 

My understanding of Fords problems was a business thing. They were deeply in bed with rentals, that were eating up their capacity and getting such deep discounts that Ford was running it's factories for free. On top of that, the rental turn-over (resales) were undercutting dealers, and causing quicker depreciation on the cars -- and so Ford had to offer incentives and discounts to compensate.

Thus Ford was making tons of cars, but not making tons of money.

I haven't been tracking it -- but from what I read, they got a bit more of a handle on that. (And will be reigning that in as well). The new product line certainly helps -- but selling more cars at 3% margins isn't a huge win. Trimming back on rental sales or those deals (which they are doing) will help them across the board, help them lower incentives, and so on.

Mainstreaming SVT products could bump up their numbers too. So I suspect it is more of a shift in business than an elimination of performance products. But all car companies have their eye's on the price of oil right now. If it doen't come down, I suspect the number of muscle cars will go down. (Which is suprising -- the U.S. is at $2.00 a gallon and everyone goes bananas -- in Europe they are placid and at what? $7.00 a gallon?)