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Old 6/9/05, 08:46 PM
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Not journalism by a long shot!! They make their money from both sides, readers and manufacturers. Car and Driver's article was not based on fact but on conjecture.We were given "estimates" based on power to weight ratios. Drive it with equipment and tell us what it did. What a CROCK!!!
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Old 6/9/05, 08:52 PM
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Oh come on! It's common for car mags to do this when they have a mule. It's an introduction to what is probably to come and more often than not their performance guesstimates are pretty accurate. When they can publish a full on road test they will.

Then people will accuse them of hating Fords and not knowing how to drive if the results aren't to their liking. It always happens.

Why are you so upset about this? We went through the same thing during the long lead in period to the 2005.
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Old 6/9/05, 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by hayburner@June 9, 2005, 9:49 PM
Not journalism by a long shot!! They make their money from both sides, readers and manufacturers. Car and Driver's article was not based on fact but on conjecture.We were given "estimates" based on power to weight ratios. Drive it with equipment and tell us what it did. What a CROCK!!!
It's a preview of a concept not a full road test. Get a grip!
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Old 6/9/05, 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by TomServo92@June 9, 2005, 7:58 PM
It's a preview of a concept not a full road test. Get a grip!

No worries then...My grip is just fine.You guys can just keep gobbling up their slop.
Bon appetit.
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Old 6/10/05, 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by hayburner@June 9, 2005, 11:54 PM

No worries then...My grip is just fine.You guys can just keep gobbling up their slop.
Bon appetit.
I don't don't gobble anyone's slop. In fact, I don't subscribe to C&D. However, I don't make senseless rants on the internet about their articles either. If you don't like their articles, stop buying the magazine.
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Old 6/10/05, 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by TomServo92@June 10, 2005, 4:47 AM
I don't don't gobble anyone's slop. In fact, I don't subscribe to C&D. However, I don't make senseless rants on the internet about their articles either. If you don't like their articles, stop buying the magazine.
"TomServile"...it's not a senseless rant. I'm just tellin' ya , the car mag.s are in bed with the manufacturers. When you see an article like this it is a pure sales job, presented with "estimates"...not facts. I never bought the magazine. After about 15 seconds of looking at it ,I could tell it was really an infomercial.
Can you understand the point?
And Scottie...because it's common, does that make it right?
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Old 6/10/05, 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by hayburner@June 10, 2005, 9:03 AM
"TomServile"...it's not a senseless rant. I'm just tellin' ya , the car mag.s are in bed with the manufacturers. When you see an article like this it is a pure sales job, presented with "estimates"...not facts. I never bought the magazine. After about 15 seconds of looking at it ,I could tell it was really an infomercial.
Can you understand the point?
I understand your point and it's also the reason I don't subscribe to any of the car mags anymore. To sum it up, I basically agree with you. I just don't see the point of ranting about it. But that's just me.
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Old 6/10/05, 08:17 AM
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I had to laugh at how the cover said "475 HP!" and then the table of contents said 460 HP.
But the pictures were good!
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Old 6/10/05, 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by TomServo92@June 10, 2005, 7:06 AM
I understand your point and it's also the reason I don't subscribe to any of the car mags anymore. To sum it up, I basically agree with you. I just don't see the point of ranting about it. But that's just me.
Tom...thanks for acknowledging the point. Why I'm saying it ,is this : if people catch on to what they are doing maybe we'll get something better from them.
We have to wait 2 months for them to give us something biased as it is. Surely there is a better way, but they have their system as long as people buy into it.
I'm glad you aren't.
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Old 6/10/05, 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by hayburner@June 10, 2005, 9:41 AM
Tom...thanks for acknowledging the point. Why I'm saying it ,is this : if people catch on to what they are doing maybe we'll get something better from them.
We have to wait 2 months for them to give us something biased as it is. Surely there is a better way, but they have their system as long as people buy into it.
I'm glad you aren't.
I've always said that Motor Trend's Car Of The Year is not a product of the merit of the vehicle in question but of how much advertising money is spent by the manufacturer. I stopped reading MT years ago because of it. I dropped C&D last year because I grew weary of them shilling for BMW.
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Old 6/10/05, 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by TomServo92@June 10, 2005, 7:54 AM
I've always said that Motor Trend's Car Of The Year is not a product of the merit of the vehicle in question but of how much advertising money is spent by the manufacturer. I stopped reading MT years ago because of it. I dropped C&D last year because I grew weary of them shilling for BMW.
True...M/T lost any trace of crediblity when they called the Renault Alliance import car of the year. If they don't fix themselves there will be something better from somebody else, I hope.
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Old 6/10/05, 09:04 AM
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Mark, right on there. If I had a nickel for every time one of the car mags mentions BMW handling I'd be a rich man. I know they handle nicely, but come on.

It seems the same for Honda and Toyota. Both great cars, but they hardly ever say anything bad about them.

I do like the mags for the pics they have of cars, but the testing doesn't always seem to be accurate, so I don't put much stock, even in their actual results.
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Old 6/10/05, 11:40 AM
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Meh, i learn a lot of cool stuff from car mags. Motor Trend called the Shelby GT500 a full year before it was officially announced, for example. Sure sometimes they're info can be a little off, sometimes inconsitent, i think that's understandable. I also find it hard to believe that an entire staff would share an allegiance to a whole car company. Individual writers might let their preferences show some times, but on the whole, they're the least biased, most discerning bunch of car people, much better than a bunch of fellow mustang-nuts on the internet anyways.

This article on the GT500 isn't advertising for ford, well no more than any other cover story on an upcoming car. Its C and D realizing that putting this car on the cover will move a lot of magazines, cause this car is HOT.
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Old 6/10/05, 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by mustang_sallad@June 10, 2005, 10:43 AM
Meh, i learn a lot of cool stuff from car mags. Motor Trend called the Shelby GT500 a full year before it was officially announced, for example. Sure sometimes they're info can be a little off, sometimes inconsitent, i think that's understandable. I also find it hard to believe that an entire staff would share an allegiance to a whole car company. Individual writers might let their preferences show some times, but on the whole, they're the least biased, most discerning bunch of car people, much better than a bunch of fellow mustang-nuts on the internet anyways.

This article on the GT500 isn't advertising for ford, well no more than any other cover story on an upcoming car. Its C and D realizing that putting this car on the cover will move a lot of magazines, cause this car is HOT.
Yep...they are the least biased alright. They are only influenced by whoever approaches them with the best deal at the time...kinda like any other ho. Yes some facts are presented, but they aren't about to tell you the whole story
about how a feature comes to be. This one actually presents conjecture as fact on the cover. If that is good enough for you, you can drop 6 loonies on the whole thing and be naively happy,eh?

As for me,I will believe what I see that they can document. Will the Shelby be a great car? Probably. Just don't pea on my leg and tell me it's rainin'...
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Old 6/10/05, 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by TomServo92@June 10, 2005, 10:06 AM
I understand your point and it's also the reason I don't subscribe to any of the car mags anymore. To sum it up, I basically agree with you. I just don't see the point of ranting about it. But that's just me.
I agree with you most of them are sickeningly biased. Thats why I just look through them at Borders and put them back. I like to see what technology is coming out. Well, that and I'm cheap If you really have a specific one you don't like, just don't read it. No better way to get back at them then not buying their product

C&D really liked the Mustang this year though!
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Old 6/10/05, 06:21 PM
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Sometimes their bias can be pretty funny. Several years back, I was reading an article about a $60k Porche (this at the time a fully equipped mustang was like $12K). After wiping the drool off the magazine left by the author and how this was the greatest car ever made, etc, etc, he said that there were a few minor issues with the car. The sunshade fell off (as in completely off) and the shifter bar came off in his hand. If I just paid supercar prices for a car and the shifter comes off in my hand, you can bet real money that I am marching that car right back to the dealer and demanding my money back.
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Old 6/10/05, 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by hayburner@June 10, 2005, 8:03 AM
"TomServile"...it's not a senseless rant. I'm just tellin' ya , the car mag.s are in bed with the manufacturers. When you see an article like this it is a pure sales job, presented with "estimates"...not facts. I never bought the magazine. After about 15 seconds of looking at it ,I could tell it was really an infomercial.
Can you understand the point?
And Scottie...because it's common, does that make it right?
Not necessarily right, but not wrong either in my opinion. At any rate it makes for interesting reading and gives you a general idea of what to expect.

I don't think car mags are in bed with any manufacturers and most, at least the majors, aren't unduly influenced by their advertisers. Over the years I've seen a number of accounts lost when the editors panned a car after a road test. Oh well.
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Old 6/10/05, 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by scottie1113@June 10, 2005, 7:35 PM
Not necessarily right, but not wrong either in my opinion. At any rate it makes for interesting reading and gives you a general idea of what to expect.

I don't think car mags are in bed with any manufacturers and most, at least the majors, aren't unduly influenced by their advertisers. Over the years I've seen a number of accounts lost when the editors panned a car after a road test. Oh well.
Maybe it was panned because they didn't spend enough in advertising!
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Old 6/10/05, 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by scottie1113@June 10, 2005, 5:35 PM
Not necessarily right, but not wrong either in my opinion. At any rate it makes for interesting reading and gives you a general idea of what to expect.

I don't think car mags are in bed with any manufacturers and most, at least the majors, aren't unduly influenced by their advertisers. Over the years I've seen a number of accounts lost when the editors panned a car after a road test. Oh well.
Scottie...sorry to break the news,yeah they are in bed.And not the only ones.Boat mags are worse.It is the way they do business.
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Old 6/11/05, 05:26 PM
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No offense, but this entire thread kind of reminds me of the guy in the back corner of the bar who drinks by himself while mubling about conspiracies. Again, no offense.
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