Tested out the C&L yesterday...
12/14/05, 07:53 AM
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Well, Lidio had some of the new C&L's in stock... and I had some vacation time to use... and you know I hadn't bought myself a Christmas present yet.... So I took the day off yesterday and headed down to Alternative Auto... just to see what all the hubb-bubb with the C&L was all about...
Now we had dyno'ed the car a couple of weeks ago when we added the alternator pulley... car was at 190RWHP/219RWTQ... But we really wanted to do a fair comparison and test so we actually removed the MMR intake and put the stock air box back on including a brand new Motorcraft air filter (just to be as fair as possible!)
We made 3 pulls pretty much back to back. The pulls were pretty close so we picked the average pull (i'll post all the dyno sheets as soon as I can) which was 184RWHP/216RWTQ. This was also with the stock tune. So basically a stock automatic with a Magnaflow single axle back and an alternator pulley swap... so that puts the 184 right in the ballpark.
So then we unboxed the C&L... man, this thing is pretty darn big! LOL! Take a look a the stock air box MAF housing vs the C&L!
We then install the C&L... Man, this is a very nice looking unit... I actually like the looks of it better than the MMR.. Now the thing with the C&L is that it DOES REQUIRE a tune. So Lidio made the adjustments to the stock tune to compensate for the C&L... bascially adding more fuel... (lots more!) Took a couple of tries but he absolutely nailed the A/F. So now the car had the C&L installed and was running a stock tune that was changed only to compensate for the C&L. Again we made a couple of pulls... the average run was 190RWHP/217RWTQ. So the C&L performed basically as good as the tuned MMR....
Now we load Lidio's C&L tune into the car. Again, we make a couple of pulls... average pull is 193RWHP/223RWTQ! So we're looking at 3RWHP/4RWTQ gain for the C&L vs my MMR. Now like Doug pointed out in his post, the peak number really don't tell the whole story... The graphs have a lot more info int them... Unfortunately I've got a lot of stuff going on and will post them as soon as a I can!
So it's time to head home... now we spent the day objectively testing the C&L... but now it was time to test it where the rubber hits the road so to speak! LOL! Now to my amazement (and SHOCK!) the C&L made a very noticable difference on the street! Much more than I would have expected based on the dyno results! The car pulls much harder off the line... and the throttle response.... don't know how... don't know why... but it seems greatly improved!!! I mean you barely tap the pedal and the nose comes up!!!! This was totally unexpected! Now part of me says these kind of things are mainly in my head... I mean you spend money on something you expect to feel some results! But I can honestly say I know there is a difference! I even chirped the 1-2 shift at part throttle.. that never has only happened at WOT before...
Bottom line... the C&L get's my vote! LOL!
Ok, so the C&L out peforms my MMR... now it is only a few HP... but the C&L is also CHEAPER than the MMR! (calll Lidio for his exact pricing, shipping, etc... ) I also feel the dyno sheets and number really don't do the C&L justice... May not sound very scientific but I definitely like the way the car peforms with the C&L over the MMR... It's just plain better! LOL! (and looks better too!)
I've also have some very informative screen shots (data logging) from Lidio's I need to post... It basically shows just how good his tune for the C&L is! He really nailed it! (man i learn a lot when I'm there!!!) He's putting together a C&L and X-Cal2 pakage... If you already have an X-Cal2 (or x-cal) he'll provide the tune with the C&L... if you already have a C&L and X-Cal2 (or x-cal) he will sell you just the tune (but like others he'll ask that you send your X-Cal2 back to him) Please call Alternative Auto to get all the pricing info.. (586.463.0010)
PWHEW!!! Sorry for the long long post! Lots of info to cover! LOL!
Oh... and guess what else came yesterday:
Now we had dyno'ed the car a couple of weeks ago when we added the alternator pulley... car was at 190RWHP/219RWTQ... But we really wanted to do a fair comparison and test so we actually removed the MMR intake and put the stock air box back on including a brand new Motorcraft air filter (just to be as fair as possible!)
We made 3 pulls pretty much back to back. The pulls were pretty close so we picked the average pull (i'll post all the dyno sheets as soon as I can) which was 184RWHP/216RWTQ. This was also with the stock tune. So basically a stock automatic with a Magnaflow single axle back and an alternator pulley swap... so that puts the 184 right in the ballpark.
So then we unboxed the C&L... man, this thing is pretty darn big! LOL! Take a look a the stock air box MAF housing vs the C&L!
We then install the C&L... Man, this is a very nice looking unit... I actually like the looks of it better than the MMR.. Now the thing with the C&L is that it DOES REQUIRE a tune. So Lidio made the adjustments to the stock tune to compensate for the C&L... bascially adding more fuel... (lots more!) Took a couple of tries but he absolutely nailed the A/F. So now the car had the C&L installed and was running a stock tune that was changed only to compensate for the C&L. Again we made a couple of pulls... the average run was 190RWHP/217RWTQ. So the C&L performed basically as good as the tuned MMR....
Now we load Lidio's C&L tune into the car. Again, we make a couple of pulls... average pull is 193RWHP/223RWTQ! So we're looking at 3RWHP/4RWTQ gain for the C&L vs my MMR. Now like Doug pointed out in his post, the peak number really don't tell the whole story... The graphs have a lot more info int them... Unfortunately I've got a lot of stuff going on and will post them as soon as a I can!
So it's time to head home... now we spent the day objectively testing the C&L... but now it was time to test it where the rubber hits the road so to speak! LOL! Now to my amazement (and SHOCK!) the C&L made a very noticable difference on the street! Much more than I would have expected based on the dyno results! The car pulls much harder off the line... and the throttle response.... don't know how... don't know why... but it seems greatly improved!!! I mean you barely tap the pedal and the nose comes up!!!! This was totally unexpected! Now part of me says these kind of things are mainly in my head... I mean you spend money on something you expect to feel some results! But I can honestly say I know there is a difference! I even chirped the 1-2 shift at part throttle.. that never has only happened at WOT before...
Bottom line... the C&L get's my vote! LOL!
Ok, so the C&L out peforms my MMR... now it is only a few HP... but the C&L is also CHEAPER than the MMR! (calll Lidio for his exact pricing, shipping, etc... ) I also feel the dyno sheets and number really don't do the C&L justice... May not sound very scientific but I definitely like the way the car peforms with the C&L over the MMR... It's just plain better! LOL! (and looks better too!)
I've also have some very informative screen shots (data logging) from Lidio's I need to post... It basically shows just how good his tune for the C&L is! He really nailed it! (man i learn a lot when I'm there!!!) He's putting together a C&L and X-Cal2 pakage... If you already have an X-Cal2 (or x-cal) he'll provide the tune with the C&L... if you already have a C&L and X-Cal2 (or x-cal) he will sell you just the tune (but like others he'll ask that you send your X-Cal2 back to him) Please call Alternative Auto to get all the pricing info.. (586.463.0010)
PWHEW!!! Sorry for the long long post! Lots of info to cover! LOL!
Oh... and guess what else came yesterday:
12/14/05, 09:19 AM
#2
Team Mustang Source
Glad to hear about the difference you could feel on the road! And the engine bay looks great too! 
I'm still at a loss when it comes to these CAI's. They obviously make a difference, but I just don't get the physics involved. Sorry if this sounds stupid, but no matter how big you make the tube, if the throttle body opening remains the same, how does more air get in? Does it allow for more air to remain in waiting, ready to be sucked in?
I'm still at a loss when it comes to these CAI's. They obviously make a difference, but I just don't get the physics involved. Sorry if this sounds stupid, but no matter how big you make the tube, if the throttle body opening remains the same, how does more air get in? Does it allow for more air to remain in waiting, ready to be sucked in?
12/14/05, 09:38 AM
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Hey, SCRMING, that is good to know! I have the MMR installed, and will probably keep it for awhile. Like you said, that sucker was expensive!!! It is a nice unit, looks good, and performs well, but now I know that when I am ready to move away from it, there is something else out there. It is great to have comparisons like this, because it is so easy to sucked into the hype and sink money into a product with questionable gains.
Bottom Line: The MMR does perform, but for the money, there are better alternatives out there. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Bottom Line: The MMR does perform, but for the money, there are better alternatives out there. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
12/14/05, 09:54 AM
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Good to know Lideo has some great tunes for the C&L. If I hadn't went with Doug, I would have gone with Lideo for sure.
I just refilled my tank last night with 91 octane and tried out Bamachips' 91 performance and 91 torque tunes on some back roads last night... woah... a very nice improvement over the 87 octane tune! I'll try each of the 91 octane tunes for a bit, then decide which one to use.
Love tunes... love the C&L!! It's a whole new car!
[attachmentid=40697][attachmentid=40698][attachmentid=40699]
I just refilled my tank last night with 91 octane and tried out Bamachips' 91 performance and 91 torque tunes on some back roads last night... woah... a very nice improvement over the 87 octane tune! I'll try each of the 91 octane tunes for a bit, then decide which one to use.
Love tunes... love the C&L!! It's a whole new car!
[attachmentid=40697][attachmentid=40698][attachmentid=40699]
12/14/05, 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Hambone@December 14, 2005, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the great info, scrming!
Now---what else came in?? Maybe an underdrive pulley??
Come on, give us some hints!
Thanks for the great info, scrming!
Now---what else came in?? Maybe an underdrive pulley??
Come on, give us some hints!
Oh... and the C&L seems to have given the Magnaflow a slightly deeper tone..
12/14/05, 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Excepcion13@December 14, 2005, 11:41 AM
Hey, SCRMING, that is good to know! I have the MMR installed, and will probably keep it for awhile. Like you said, that sucker was expensive!!! It is a nice unit, looks good, and performs well, but now I know that when I am ready to move away from it, there is something else out there. It is great to have comparisons like this, because it is so easy to sucked into the hype and sink money into a product with questionable gains.
Bottom Line: The MMR does perform, but for the money, there are better alternatives out there. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Hey, SCRMING, that is good to know! I have the MMR installed, and will probably keep it for awhile. Like you said, that sucker was expensive!!! It is a nice unit, looks good, and performs well, but now I know that when I am ready to move away from it, there is something else out there. It is great to have comparisons like this, because it is so easy to sucked into the hype and sink money into a product with questionable gains.
Bottom Line: The MMR does perform, but for the money, there are better alternatives out there. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
12/14/05, 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by Hambone@December 14, 2005, 12:18 PM
Okay, now can you CIRCLE the relevant area
I have a phone message in to Lidio, hope he calls me back this afternoon!
Okay, now can you CIRCLE the relevant area
I have a phone message in to Lidio, hope he calls me back this afternoon!
12/14/05, 01:40 PM
#11
Originally posted by scrming@December 14, 2005, 1:14 PM
Hint:
Oh... and the C&L seems to have given the Magnaflow a slightly deeper tone..
Hint:
Oh... and the C&L seems to have given the Magnaflow a slightly deeper tone..
12/14/05, 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Jimp@December 14, 2005, 3:43 PM
Very nice scrming. What is that wire running over the old cover?
Very nice scrming. What is that wire running over the old cover?
12/14/05, 02:42 PM
#13
Excellent work Scrming, 193RWHP is excellent. I see I'm not the only one who spent vacation time at the shop. Can't wait to see the dyno, 223RWTQ is excellent, and still better than mine...doh!!!!
12/14/05, 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by scrming@December 14, 2005, 1:18 PM
The MMR was one of my first mods.. before I had a clue what I was doing! LOL! It was also one of the first solid tube CAIs on the market... It's one of those things... I was very satisfied with it... but that doesn't mean I don't quit searching for something better! LOL! It probably isn't worth the cost for most guys to switch from another CAI to the C&L... but I show my car pretty much all summer long and at the track I'm looking for every little advantage i can get! LOL!
The MMR was one of my first mods.. before I had a clue what I was doing! LOL! It was also one of the first solid tube CAIs on the market... It's one of those things... I was very satisfied with it... but that doesn't mean I don't quit searching for something better! LOL! It probably isn't worth the cost for most guys to switch from another CAI to the C&L... but I show my car pretty much all summer long and at the track I'm looking for every little advantage i can get! LOL!
Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescriprion is more cowbell...I mean, modding!
12/14/05, 05:33 PM
#16
Originally posted by Excepcion13@December 14, 2005, 6:02 PM
I bought the MMR before I even took delivery of the car (it was ordered, though)! I was just so excited about modding! I should have held off and seen what was around, but at the time, it seemed the best on the market! I got lucky, I suppose. It could have been much worse!
Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescriprion is more cowbell...I mean, modding!
I bought the MMR before I even took delivery of the car (it was ordered, though)! I was just so excited about modding! I should have held off and seen what was around, but at the time, it seemed the best on the market! I got lucky, I suppose. It could have been much worse!
Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescriprion is more cowbell...I mean, modding!
Don't sweat it, a lot of these CAI's on the market are not dyno proven. We are still in uncharted waters on them.
12/15/05, 06:39 PM
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Pretty much a rehash but a couple of dyno sheets...
http://www.tammyandjohn.com/Mustang/...Mustang.htm#CL
http://www.tammyandjohn.com/Mustang/...Mustang.htm#CL
12/15/05, 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by Fazm@December 15, 2005, 9:39 PM
cool scrming, so when does the turbo come in for you car? lol
cool scrming, so when does the turbo come in for you car? lol
12/15/05, 08:21 PM
#20
Originally posted by scrming@December 15, 2005, 10:17 PM
Well.... it's like this.... As much as I would love to put a turbo in... The Zex is working really well... and I can upgrade a lot of other parts for $4,000... LOL! I'm really leaning towards just sticking with the Zex... we'll start out in the spring still using the 100HP... if and when we can get the car to hook (hopefully with out breaking things!) then I might consider movng up to the 125HP jets... As silly as it may sound I just really don't need that kind of power around town... my 193RWHP and 4.10s keep me plenty happy on the streets of Saginaw... LOL!
Well.... it's like this.... As much as I would love to put a turbo in... The Zex is working really well... and I can upgrade a lot of other parts for $4,000... LOL! I'm really leaning towards just sticking with the Zex... we'll start out in the spring still using the 100HP... if and when we can get the car to hook (hopefully with out breaking things!) then I might consider movng up to the 125HP jets... As silly as it may sound I just really don't need that kind of power around town... my 193RWHP and 4.10s keep me plenty happy on the streets of Saginaw... LOL!
...yea right!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't go turbo, you might just be tempted to go true dual exhaust....LOL.