Excepcion13

http://www.lmperformance.com/5660/73.html

http://www.v6mustangstuff.com/26605.pdf

If these LTs connect straight to the Prochamber, am I right in assuming that I can't have cats?

Or would I need a shop to do some serious fabrication work?

Also, does anyone know the effects of having LTs and high flow cats? Is failing emissions a given under that scenario?

Just weighing my options, here. Not completely convinced to go dual yet, as it is not hurting SCRMING at all.

And I would hate to put duals on and see my torque or HP drop.

Actually thinking about the ZEX kit next. WITH the remote bottle opener, of course....

Excepcion13

Some stuff I found on back pressure.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/...etorquemyth.htm

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/eng...tScavenging.pdf

http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51386

rygenstormlocke

Excepcion13,

Good post man!!!! Just finished the first link, going through the rest now. After this, I think we can put the back pressure speculation to rest.



Will post some additional comments once I finish ready.

rygenstormlocke

This is a good thread, I think we need weigh in from everyone on this. What do you all think? It's been debated for quite awhile on the needed back pressure for a V6.

Thoughts?

ex-Galaxie500

I think as long as you have some kind of exhuast system, you'll have sufficient backpressure. I don't think there is going to be a severe enough change to cause any problems really.

I don't know much about the emissions systems on the new '05 but even when there is an exhaust system swap, the EGR and all those emissions equipment should still function. Unless of course they are removed, such as taking off the cats.

Try letting the exhaust just come straight out of the headers- or better yet, straight out of the engine- and then you may run into some problems

TJ06

This is the only mod I cannot get a grip on 100. either way. I just plain do not know if going true duals X or H hurts low end TQ I really have a feeling it does on this 4.0 V6 I hope I am wrong.


We have an excellent opportunity to find out 100% right now. I have a suggestion on how to find out. The answer lies with Exception 13 he has modded his car perfect to be the perfect candidate for this test. If Excepcion 13 decides to go duals with true, X, or H (excluding ST's or LT's)We should all chip in $$ (ten members) for research for a free dyno for Excepcion 13 to dyno right after this mod.

Just a suggestion.

rygenstormlocke

I'm up for it, I'll pitch in. But remember, we do have some info, Scrming does not have duals, just a single, and he has dynos pre-N20. Also, what about a Y pipe dual kit? I could go prochamber and see what happens after that. I am having a dyno tuning session with my new SCT tomorrow, so I can change the exhaust and then dyno again.

rygenstormlocke

And keep in mind Zodiac is running duals with a professional tune, and he is running 208 vs. 205 from Excepcion13, any thoughts on that.

TJ06

I don't know what Zodiac HP&TQ or exhuast just checked on the his exhuast per sig, Is he running flowmaster along with glasspacks (resn) if so he would retain more BP than just duals w/H or X.

What is his TQ?

Could you decribe his exhaust in detail to me?
I would also like to look at his dyno TQ data to see, TQ # by itself not a lot of help need to see dyno data on his car.

rygenstormlocke

Hmmm, you would have to ask him. But, for his TQ, I will go dig up the post by Doug and see if I can find his dyno chart.

Just one sec.

rygenstormlocke

Here's his final numbers:

208 rwhp and 241 rwtq

And here is the thread on it:

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=39240

rygenstormlocke

And here is Excepcion13's numbers:

205 rwhp and 237 rwtq

And the thread:

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=40437

TJ06

Rygn

I would first like to say that was a good read thanks, I have read a few bits about Doug but now I know more about him, nice tune Doug.

I looked at the dyno chart and they look excellent, Zodiac mentions at the time of the dyno only flows and H pipe, no glasspack's (but in his sig now they are mentioned) so if there were no glasspacks just Flows w/H pipe then we have undisputed proof that this setup does not hurt low end TQ, low end HP&TQ, HP&TQ period.

I would also like to say if there were glasspacks (I know they are straight through) along with the Flows then IMO it's not 100% proof.

Rygn thanks again for this info.

Zodiac could you weigh in on exactly what your exhaust was at the time of the dyno?

Excepcion13

No need to chip in cash for a dyno, as the shop that will be putting them in will have one right there, and there is absolutely no fricking way that I wouldn't get dyno'd afterwords!! I am seriously thinking about going on Saturday morning and seeing what difference a 93 Octane tune makes!

I am putting the exhaust and headers on together and have set the date for spring of 06. I want LTs, but it may not be feasible here in VA. Haven't made up my mind one way or the other on H, X, or Prochamber. I would like an "out of the box" kit, but it is not necessary.

P.S. DONE WITH EXAMS!!!! 3 WEEKS OF DEPRAVITY, DEBAUCHERY, AND DRIVING MY STANG!!!!

Zodiac

The glasspacks were in at the time of the dyno. Im too scared to take them out, dont know what it'll do to my numbers or tone heh. They were there to quiet out the pop associated with true-dual systems having no crossover (I only recently in the last few months had the Hpipe added) and lack of backpressure. I may have them removed when I add LTs down the road, but again.. Im scared! I guess Ill just have to dyno the SOB and find out once and for all either way someday.

Comparing common practice and my times w/ Fazm's times (hes running stock, single exhaust) Im suffering a little bit down low for going duals, but seroiusly making it up in the mid-upper ranges where the engine needs to breathe easier. Our 60' times are about the same, his is actually better, but I was running only .1 second slower in the 1/8th mile before I had my tune done. So with my exhaust set up (packs, flows, hpipe) I was running .1 sec slower than him (stock exhaust, tune, cai) ( I think this is right ) Just food for thought.

Excepcion13

Okay, I MAY have found a kit that works:

MAC LT Headers (Ceramic Coated)
MAC 2.5'' Pro Chamber w/Catalytics, to MAC long tubes (for a GT)
MAC 2.5'' SS Cat-Back Exhaust 4'' Slashcut, Rolled Tips

I have heard that MAC has recently (last few years)increased their quality. However, this kit is expensive. Should last a while, though. Any thoughts?

MSP

Keep up the good work Excepcion13!! We must keep hope alive for the Pro-Chamber..

My Pro-Chamber has single-handedley done wonders for my cars low-end torque value, while also increasing the upper RPM pulling force of the car over the XPIPE..

While most may have a different view than I in terms of the sound, because of recording quality, I make a promise to all that the performance of the Prochamber on my car without a tune is mind boggling..

So as much as it hurts me, that I can not convey all of this to my friends about the urgency to make this mod a foundation in terms of things first to do, I am happy you are attempting to carry the torch in my behalf... Perhaps someone such as yourself who is not so controversial and opinionated as I can be a force in bringing this awsome product to the V6 community and be respected for it.. Keep up the good work, its well worth it, I promise...

This is one of those things that may take quite awhile to catch on, because of the initial buy in... But in the future, the SOHC 4.0's name will become merged in to one with the Prochamber.. SOHC V6 4.0 Pro-Chamber...

rygenstormlocke

I'm keen on this one too, and once I'm done with what I am working on now, I will be getting right on this. I will be getting this after the holidays, I will do a dyno before and after.

After all, Scrming has challenged me to show a HP gain, thus I must rise and accept the challenge.

Excepcion13

I am about as unbiased as they come because I have NO IDEA WHAT I AM DOING!!! However, here is my reasoning:

1. LT headers offer greater performance gains. If I am going to go to the trouble of changing headers, then LTs make more sense.
2. After reading MSP's experience with the Prochamber, and examining the way it affects exhaust, I believe that the MAC Prochamber will work very well with the MAC LT headers. And the sound will be phenomanal!
3. Might as well stay with MAC for the Mufflers as well, and a SS system should last for awhile.

The whole system will cost $1,200 and then the charges for install. But the prochamber with cats that fit the LTs are expensive, and so is the SS exhaust. However, the JBA system would have cost slightly more for headers and true duals, so I am still within my original budget.

justgreat

what you want to take away from this discussion is the information about changing the headers. this modification will ABSOLUTELY change the torque and hp curves (in addition to changing the amount of hp and torque) of the motor. i have never heard of backpressure being a good thing...there is a question of an exhaust system being "tuned" to the engine...the same can be said for the exhaust manifolds/headers. most header systems will definitely make LESS hp/torque on the bottom end of the rpm range...where most of us drive everyday...the systems will make more power but it's usually higher up in the rev range.