Explorer Express
2/23/06, 09:12 AM
#5
I'm really interested in this kit, I hope it comes out some time this year!
2/23/06, 05:39 PM
#8
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05 cayuse @ February 23, 2006, 7:06 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I'm clueless, what are we waiting for. Jeez, I bet this is going to cost me. Any mod you folks are waiting on soon ends up on my to do list.
[/b][/quote]
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=40330
Check out the first entry under Supercharger.
I'm clueless, what are we waiting for. Jeez, I bet this is going to cost me. Any mod you folks are waiting on soon ends up on my to do list.
[/b][/quote]
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=40330
Check out the first entry under Supercharger.
2/24/06, 06:31 PM
#10
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I know a lot of you guys are looking forward to this system, so this probably won't be a popular comment.... but oh well.
I have some reservations about this system. Here are my issues:
1) 6psi is a bit low. I think the reason for this is reliability. Roots-type SCs are really stressful on an engine because they build so much boost at low RPM. An engine can stand more boost at higher RPMs, so a centrifugal SC, which builds boost on a scale fairly proportional to RPM makes more sense to me. The other obvious reason boost is at 6 psi is because there's no intercooler, which leads me to my next beef.
2) No intercooler. One could argue it's not necessary... but the omission of an intercooler prevents you from upgrading your pulley later on down the road. With the ProCharger, Vortech, or Mike's (intercooled) turbo, you can always add more boost if you beef up the bottom end.
Trying to design a system on your own, to add an intercooler to this system would be pretty difficult.
3) Price. For $3800 shipped, I was able to get the ProCharger Stage II, 3-core intercooler, 42lb injectors, upgraded fuel pump, NGK plugs, and a Diablo tuner w/unlimited tune support. I'm not sure how much the comparable Vortech system costs... but I'm pretty sure it's not as much as the Explorer Express.
4) Everyone knows SCs are "always on", but with a roots-type SC, it's really hard to keep "out of the boost" with normal driving. With a centrifugal SC/TC, I can drive easily (like a normal person!) and stay out of the boost, keeping my gas consumption down. Still, the power is always there whenever I need it, and having a standard tranny makes it that much more accessible.
5) Finally... why isn't it out yet?? This was the first announced forced induction system (not counting nitrous, if you want to argue that). Since it's unveiling, no less than three other companies have come out with very competitive systems. Are they having problems with the system? ...are they running out of money for R&D? ...are their hearts not in it? All these are questions you have to ask yourself.
Instead of just bashing it, I do want to state some things I like about it:
1) I have to admit... it looks cool. It really adds to the whole "muscle car" look. I can't even imagine how cool it would be if someone made a functional hood scoop to work with this system...
2) Making peak boost at a low RPM is also a benefit, obviously, even though it's stressful on the engine. 6 psi is not too much at low RPMs, so that much is good.
3) If you have an automatic, this type of SC might make more sense to you. Since it builds boost low, the fact that you can't launch at 3500 rpm is irrelevant.
I have some reservations about this system. Here are my issues:
1) 6psi is a bit low. I think the reason for this is reliability. Roots-type SCs are really stressful on an engine because they build so much boost at low RPM. An engine can stand more boost at higher RPMs, so a centrifugal SC, which builds boost on a scale fairly proportional to RPM makes more sense to me. The other obvious reason boost is at 6 psi is because there's no intercooler, which leads me to my next beef.
2) No intercooler. One could argue it's not necessary... but the omission of an intercooler prevents you from upgrading your pulley later on down the road. With the ProCharger, Vortech, or Mike's (intercooled) turbo, you can always add more boost if you beef up the bottom end.
Trying to design a system on your own, to add an intercooler to this system would be pretty difficult.
3) Price. For $3800 shipped, I was able to get the ProCharger Stage II, 3-core intercooler, 42lb injectors, upgraded fuel pump, NGK plugs, and a Diablo tuner w/unlimited tune support. I'm not sure how much the comparable Vortech system costs... but I'm pretty sure it's not as much as the Explorer Express.
4) Everyone knows SCs are "always on", but with a roots-type SC, it's really hard to keep "out of the boost" with normal driving. With a centrifugal SC/TC, I can drive easily (like a normal person!) and stay out of the boost, keeping my gas consumption down. Still, the power is always there whenever I need it, and having a standard tranny makes it that much more accessible.
5) Finally... why isn't it out yet?? This was the first announced forced induction system (not counting nitrous, if you want to argue that). Since it's unveiling, no less than three other companies have come out with very competitive systems. Are they having problems with the system? ...are they running out of money for R&D? ...are their hearts not in it? All these are questions you have to ask yourself.
Instead of just bashing it, I do want to state some things I like about it:
1) I have to admit... it looks cool. It really adds to the whole "muscle car" look. I can't even imagine how cool it would be if someone made a functional hood scoop to work with this system...
2) Making peak boost at a low RPM is also a benefit, obviously, even though it's stressful on the engine. 6 psi is not too much at low RPMs, so that much is good.
3) If you have an automatic, this type of SC might make more sense to you. Since it builds boost low, the fact that you can't launch at 3500 rpm is irrelevant.
2/24/06, 06:38 PM
#11
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flapjack @ February 24, 2006, 8:34 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I know a lot of you guys are looking forward to this system, so this probably won't be a popular comment.... but oh well.
I have some reservations about this system. Here are my issues:
1) 6psi is a bit low. I think the reason for this is reliability. Roots-type SCs are really stressful on an engine because they build so much boost at low RPM. An engine can stand more boost at higher RPMs, so a centrifugal SC, which builds boost on a scale fairly proportional to RPM makes more sense to me. The other obvious reason boost is at 6 psi is because there's no intercooler, which leads me to my next beef.
2) No intercooler. One could argue it's not necessary... but the omission of an intercooler prevents you from upgrading your pulley later on down the road. With the ProCharger, Vortech, or Mike's (intercooled) turbo, you can always add more boost if you beef up the bottom end.
Trying to design a system on your own, to add an intercooler to this system would be pretty difficult.
3) Price. For $3800 shipped, I was able to get the ProCharger Stage II, 3-core intercooler, 42lb injectors, upgraded fuel pump, NGK plugs, and a Diablo tuner w/unlimited tune support. I'm not sure how much the comparable Vortech system costs... but I'm pretty sure it's not as much as the Explorer Express.
4) Everyone knows SCs are "always on", but with a roots-type SC, it's really hard to keep "out of the boost" with normal driving. With a centrifugal SC/TC, I can drive easily (like a normal person!) and stay out of the boost, keeping my gas consumption down. Still, the power is always there whenever I need it, and having a standard tranny makes it that much more accessible.
5) Finally... why isn't it out yet?? This was the first announced forced induction system (not counting nitrous, if you want to argue that). Since it's unveiling, no less than three other companies have come out with very competitive systems. Are they having problems with the system? ...are they running out of money for R&D? ...are their hearts not in it? All these are questions you have to ask yourself.
Instead of just bashing it, I do want to state some things I like about it:
1) I have to admit... it looks cool. It really adds to the whole "muscle car" look. I can't even imagine how cool it would be if someone made a functional hood scoop to work with this system...
2) Making peak boost at a low RPM is also a benefit, obviously, even though it's stressful on the engine. 6 psi is not too much at low RPMs, so that much is good.
3) If you have an automatic, this type of SC might make more sense to you. Since it builds boost low, the fact that you can't launch at 3500 rpm is irrelevant.
[/b][/quote]
I have to agree with everything you said. If they added an intercooler(for the same price), the whole equation would change. I emailed them and they told me I could add a Snow Performance Boost Cooler. I looked at the instructions for the Snow cooler and it looks like it would be harder to install than a SC! No thanks! I'm either going to stick with the Zex or get Mike's TC. If only Mike would answer my questions...scratch that! He just sent me an email answering my questions! Thanks Mike!
I know a lot of you guys are looking forward to this system, so this probably won't be a popular comment.... but oh well.
I have some reservations about this system. Here are my issues:
1) 6psi is a bit low. I think the reason for this is reliability. Roots-type SCs are really stressful on an engine because they build so much boost at low RPM. An engine can stand more boost at higher RPMs, so a centrifugal SC, which builds boost on a scale fairly proportional to RPM makes more sense to me. The other obvious reason boost is at 6 psi is because there's no intercooler, which leads me to my next beef.
2) No intercooler. One could argue it's not necessary... but the omission of an intercooler prevents you from upgrading your pulley later on down the road. With the ProCharger, Vortech, or Mike's (intercooled) turbo, you can always add more boost if you beef up the bottom end.
Trying to design a system on your own, to add an intercooler to this system would be pretty difficult.
3) Price. For $3800 shipped, I was able to get the ProCharger Stage II, 3-core intercooler, 42lb injectors, upgraded fuel pump, NGK plugs, and a Diablo tuner w/unlimited tune support. I'm not sure how much the comparable Vortech system costs... but I'm pretty sure it's not as much as the Explorer Express.
4) Everyone knows SCs are "always on", but with a roots-type SC, it's really hard to keep "out of the boost" with normal driving. With a centrifugal SC/TC, I can drive easily (like a normal person!) and stay out of the boost, keeping my gas consumption down. Still, the power is always there whenever I need it, and having a standard tranny makes it that much more accessible.
5) Finally... why isn't it out yet?? This was the first announced forced induction system (not counting nitrous, if you want to argue that). Since it's unveiling, no less than three other companies have come out with very competitive systems. Are they having problems with the system? ...are they running out of money for R&D? ...are their hearts not in it? All these are questions you have to ask yourself.
Instead of just bashing it, I do want to state some things I like about it:
1) I have to admit... it looks cool. It really adds to the whole "muscle car" look. I can't even imagine how cool it would be if someone made a functional hood scoop to work with this system...
2) Making peak boost at a low RPM is also a benefit, obviously, even though it's stressful on the engine. 6 psi is not too much at low RPMs, so that much is good.
3) If you have an automatic, this type of SC might make more sense to you. Since it builds boost low, the fact that you can't launch at 3500 rpm is irrelevant.
[/b][/quote]
I have to agree with everything you said. If they added an intercooler(for the same price), the whole equation would change. I emailed them and they told me I could add a Snow Performance Boost Cooler. I looked at the instructions for the Snow cooler and it looks like it would be harder to install than a SC! No thanks! I'm either going to stick with the Zex or get Mike's TC. If only Mike would answer my questions...scratch that! He just sent me an email answering my questions! Thanks Mike!
2/24/06, 06:58 PM
#12
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I've done a lot of checking into this because I'm ready to pull the trigger on a supercharger myself. My priority is longevity for my daily driver, but with some zing to it! I've come to the conclusion that the X-Charger is perfect for me. I am not happy about how the Vortech system has to be tapped into the oil pan and block to plumb oil to the supercharger. And from what I've read, it sounds like swapping the oil in the Procharger is a rather ugly chore itself (and is required every 6k miles). And both being centrifugal chargers, they make their boost in the mid to upper ranges. The X-Charger makes boost right off idle and is self-cooling, no oil required. Works for me!! Plus it looks awesome!
2/24/06, 07:17 PM
#13
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlackLX4.0 @ February 24, 2006, 8:41 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I have to agree with everything you said. If they added an intercooler(for the same price), the whole equation would change. I emailed them and they told me I could add a Snow Performance Boost Cooler. I looked at the instructions for the Snow cooler and it looks like it would be harder to install than a SC! No thanks! I'm either going to stick with the Zex or get Mike's TC. If only Mike would answer my questions...scratch that! He just sent me an email answering my questions! Thanks Mike!
[/b][/quote]
Thanks for supporting my post. I was almost certain I was gonna get flamed for that one....
Mike's always been awesome at answering questions. When I was still undecided on which system to order, Mike was incredibly helpful. I also learned a lot from him in the process.
I have to agree with everything you said. If they added an intercooler(for the same price), the whole equation would change. I emailed them and they told me I could add a Snow Performance Boost Cooler. I looked at the instructions for the Snow cooler and it looks like it would be harder to install than a SC! No thanks! I'm either going to stick with the Zex or get Mike's TC. If only Mike would answer my questions...scratch that! He just sent me an email answering my questions! Thanks Mike!
[/b][/quote]
Thanks for supporting my post. I was almost certain I was gonna get flamed for that one....
Mike's always been awesome at answering questions. When I was still undecided on which system to order, Mike was incredibly helpful. I also learned a lot from him in the process.
2/25/06, 06:07 AM
#14
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flapjack @ February 25, 2006, 10:34 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I know a lot of you guys are looking forward to this system, so this probably won't be a popular comment.... but oh well.
I have some reservations about this system. Here are my issues:
1) 6psi is a bit low. I think the reason for this is reliability. Roots-type SCs are really stressful on an engine because they build so much boost at low RPM. An engine can stand more boost at higher RPMs, so a centrifugal SC, which builds boost on a scale fairly proportional to RPM makes more sense to me. The other obvious reason boost is at 6 psi is because there's no intercooler, which leads me to my next beef.
2) No intercooler. One could argue it's not necessary... but the omission of an intercooler prevents you from upgrading your pulley later on down the road. With the ProCharger, Vortech, or Mike's (intercooled) turbo, you can always add more boost if you beef up the bottom end.
Trying to design a system on your own, to add an intercooler to this system would be pretty difficult.
3) Price. For $3800 shipped, I was able to get the ProCharger Stage II, 3-core intercooler, 42lb injectors, upgraded fuel pump, NGK plugs, and a Diablo tuner w/unlimited tune support. I'm not sure how much the comparable Vortech system costs... but I'm pretty sure it's not as much as the Explorer Express.
4) Everyone knows SCs are "always on", but with a roots-type SC, it's really hard to keep "out of the boost" with normal driving. With a centrifugal SC/TC, I can drive easily (like a normal person!) and stay out of the boost, keeping my gas consumption down. Still, the power is always there whenever I need it, and having a standard tranny makes it that much more accessible.
5) Finally... why isn't it out yet?? This was the first announced forced induction system (not counting nitrous, if you want to argue that). Since it's unveiling, no less than three other companies have come out with very competitive systems. Are they having problems with the system? ...are they running out of money for R&D? ...are their hearts not in it? All these are questions you have to ask yourself.
Instead of just bashing it, I do want to state some things I like about it:
1) I have to admit... it looks cool. It really adds to the whole "muscle car" look. I can't even imagine how cool it would be if someone made a functional hood scoop to work with this system...
2) Making peak boost at a low RPM is also a benefit, obviously, even though it's stressful on the engine. 6 psi is not too much at low RPMs, so that much is good.
3) If you have an automatic, this type of SC might make more sense to you. Since it builds boost low, the fact that you can't launch at 3500 rpm is irrelevant.
[/b][/quote]
Just wanted to make some comments:
1. 6 psi is for 91 octane, a pulley swap for 8 or 9 psi and 94 octane should be available.
2. I agree this limits the ability to upgrade. I agree no intercooler sucks but I won't run more than 6-8 psi so a intercooler is not necessary. If I get a blower I'm looking at a daily driver for years to come.
3. This is expensive and the biggest issue facing the product. Nitrous (NEX) looks like a very cheap alternative.
4. Modern roots-type blowers have bypass valves and should have little if any affect on normal driving.
5. I e-mailed the Vaneks awhile back and the issue was parts fabrication and certification. The original design replaced the stock air box and this created some CARB issues. The kit was redesigned to keep the stock air box.
RPMs hurts engines more than boost with a good tune. The 4.0l is a low reving engine so I want the torque lower in the powerband. Automatics love low end torque. With a limited slip and some good tires, a manual tranny should be able to hook up. This is a similar power level to a GT.
My two cents
I know a lot of you guys are looking forward to this system, so this probably won't be a popular comment.... but oh well.
I have some reservations about this system. Here are my issues:
1) 6psi is a bit low. I think the reason for this is reliability. Roots-type SCs are really stressful on an engine because they build so much boost at low RPM. An engine can stand more boost at higher RPMs, so a centrifugal SC, which builds boost on a scale fairly proportional to RPM makes more sense to me. The other obvious reason boost is at 6 psi is because there's no intercooler, which leads me to my next beef.
2) No intercooler. One could argue it's not necessary... but the omission of an intercooler prevents you from upgrading your pulley later on down the road. With the ProCharger, Vortech, or Mike's (intercooled) turbo, you can always add more boost if you beef up the bottom end.
Trying to design a system on your own, to add an intercooler to this system would be pretty difficult.
3) Price. For $3800 shipped, I was able to get the ProCharger Stage II, 3-core intercooler, 42lb injectors, upgraded fuel pump, NGK plugs, and a Diablo tuner w/unlimited tune support. I'm not sure how much the comparable Vortech system costs... but I'm pretty sure it's not as much as the Explorer Express.
4) Everyone knows SCs are "always on", but with a roots-type SC, it's really hard to keep "out of the boost" with normal driving. With a centrifugal SC/TC, I can drive easily (like a normal person!) and stay out of the boost, keeping my gas consumption down. Still, the power is always there whenever I need it, and having a standard tranny makes it that much more accessible.
5) Finally... why isn't it out yet?? This was the first announced forced induction system (not counting nitrous, if you want to argue that). Since it's unveiling, no less than three other companies have come out with very competitive systems. Are they having problems with the system? ...are they running out of money for R&D? ...are their hearts not in it? All these are questions you have to ask yourself.
Instead of just bashing it, I do want to state some things I like about it:
1) I have to admit... it looks cool. It really adds to the whole "muscle car" look. I can't even imagine how cool it would be if someone made a functional hood scoop to work with this system...
2) Making peak boost at a low RPM is also a benefit, obviously, even though it's stressful on the engine. 6 psi is not too much at low RPMs, so that much is good.
3) If you have an automatic, this type of SC might make more sense to you. Since it builds boost low, the fact that you can't launch at 3500 rpm is irrelevant.
[/b][/quote]
Just wanted to make some comments:
1. 6 psi is for 91 octane, a pulley swap for 8 or 9 psi and 94 octane should be available.
2. I agree this limits the ability to upgrade. I agree no intercooler sucks but I won't run more than 6-8 psi so a intercooler is not necessary. If I get a blower I'm looking at a daily driver for years to come.
3. This is expensive and the biggest issue facing the product. Nitrous (NEX) looks like a very cheap alternative.
4. Modern roots-type blowers have bypass valves and should have little if any affect on normal driving.
5. I e-mailed the Vaneks awhile back and the issue was parts fabrication and certification. The original design replaced the stock air box and this created some CARB issues. The kit was redesigned to keep the stock air box.
RPMs hurts engines more than boost with a good tune. The 4.0l is a low reving engine so I want the torque lower in the powerband. Automatics love low end torque. With a limited slip and some good tires, a manual tranny should be able to hook up. This is a similar power level to a GT.
My two cents
2/25/06, 08:11 AM
#15
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Pricing is an issue. I'll wait until I see the kit before I pass judgement on that issue.
The roots blower is a proven design, and goes with the retro appearence of the Stang.
6 psi? Thats plenty for me. If it was all about maximum performance, I would buy the lightest platform I could find and stuff the biggest engine into I could.
I think as these kits come on the market and get more common, we are going to see alot of internal engine failures associated with excessive boost.
No one this board seems interested in water injection. Its fairly common on import applications.
The roots blower is a proven design, and goes with the retro appearence of the Stang.
6 psi? Thats plenty for me. If it was all about maximum performance, I would buy the lightest platform I could find and stuff the biggest engine into I could.
I think as these kits come on the market and get more common, we are going to see alot of internal engine failures associated with excessive boost.
No one this board seems interested in water injection. Its fairly common on import applications.
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