JasonDelane

I'd like to get 4.10 gears and I'm not sure where to start looking. I know the V6 rear end is smaller than the GT....so those wont work. Any ideas?

ex-Galaxie500

I'd start looking at Ford Racing's website

MSP

http://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/categ...d-75/index.html


http://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/categ...oduct-1074.html


Its all Good JD!!

Also, let me make sure you understand the scenario.. When you put this gear in, you also want to put in a Traction-Loc unit.. Right now, your car comes with a 1 wheel differential.. You need both wheels to lock up, so you can snap not only the passengers head back, but yours as well..

So make sure you also purchase this along with the 4.10..


http://www.performanceparts.ford.com/parts...artKeyField=742

You will already have it out of the car, so might as well..

Anyway, the 4.10 gear is no good without posi..

stupidgenius36

You can also check here.
http://www.v6mustangstuff.com/05Drivetrain.htm

scrming

You might want to really think about the 4.10s... if you do any amount of highway driving they might be a bit much... I'm running a taller tire so it's not quite so bad... but I don't think I could ever go back to a 27 inch tire... But if you can live with 3000RPM at 80MPH they are a lot of fun...

MSP

Your avatar is really encouraging to look at a different type of gear.. It really illustrates the need to avoid the 4.10's at all cost.. LOL!! You even got me thinking whether I should install this 3.73, or just get the 4.10's.. LOL!!

yur1279

3.73's are gonna be good enough for me, and of couse a T-loc!!!

MSP

Yes yur1279!! We'll be happy with the 3.73's.. I've gone through the calculations for us with our motors, and we are in a good position... If we take Scrming's car, which is setup with the 4.10's we have a few things that we must prepare for..

If we look at his circumstance with running a 13.4 with the 100 shot, we know we will need to get the hole-shot on him coming off of the line, with our 3.73's.. This is of course provided that we atleast have somehat of the same setup..

Scrming's situation is unique, but is a situation on which you and I will come across alot in our cars lifetime.. The 4.10 "Throat Slasher"!... You must understand, that we need to physically leave the line before he does, or its going to be a chase, and not a race.. So while I am content with going with the 3.73's, and you seem the same, we must both understand that at some point between the start and finish line, if we dont leave first, we need a miracle to happen.. LOL!! Understand, that with the 4,10's, even if we leave first, he may still beat our 1/8th mile.. I want you to look at this 1/4 mile Dragtimes sheet, and look at all the cars Scrming single handedley destroyed because of the 4.10's.. Not only concentrate on the 1/8th mile but the 1/4 as well.. The 4.10's have catapulted Scrming into another deminsion..

http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford--Mustang-Drag-Racing.html

What you need to focus on is Scrmings(John Stachlewicz ) trap speed, 1/8th mile, and the other cars below his name's 1/4mile trap speed, and 1/8th mile..

I submit to you, this is possible because of the 4.10's.. You and I will weigh the situation further and come to a final conclusion.. But right now, those 4.10's look darn good.. Please study very indepthly the chart and the numbers..

MSP

Lets see what Scrming's engine looked like as it crossed through the traps at 103.632mph with 4.10's..

He crossed the traps @ 5287RPM in 4th gear @ 103.632... This places his power level at a place where its not at its peak, which is around 5500 to 6000.. So as you can see, he was still pulling pretty hard when he crossed the line..

Conversley, here is our 3.73's in the same situation.. We would be at 4810rpm crossing the traps at 103.632, in 4th gear...

Knowing this info, I know how we beat Scrming with our 3.73's.. We leave it in 3rd gear, and handicapp him for running out of room in 3rd.. While he shifts, we nail him to the cross with our 3.73's.. LOL!! This is how it will look.. Cross the traps @ 6782rpm, @ 103.632 in 3rd gear.. LOL!! But make sure you cover your eyes, just in case something comes through the fire wall.. Dude we're screwed... We need to run the 125 shot to get him safely..

MSP

This has brought to light another way Ford screwed the V6's over the GT.. The GT's have a better 3rd gear ratio.. not sure if many have noticed this, but a GT can if needed stay in 3rd gear longer which could make a huge difference at the last few seconds of a race, if being driven by a good driver... The GT's have a longer 3rd gear.. I'm not sure if this was done purposley, or just by happenstance, but the GT 3rd gear if used effectively could be dangerous..

V6 3rd gear=1.41

GT 3rd gear=1.32

Thats a difference of 432rpm.. Which means, if racing a GT, if he winds out 3rd gear longer somewhere around mid track, the likleyhood of beating him deminishes... So when racing a GT, pray that he short shifts 3rd gear..

As I ponder this situation, I believe this could be where alot of GT owners are getting slower 1/4 mile times.. If a GT shifts out of 3rd gear too soon, it has 2 effects..

1. It sacrifices alittle power at the top end which could be used

2. It forces 4th gear to climb a greater mountian in which to get the 4.6L motor back into its power band sweet spot..

I believe alot of slow times derrived from the GT's are directly related to their not using the 3rd gear to their advantage..

After carefully considering the rest of the gearing 1-4, it will not be a problem, because the V6 is geared to have a better 60ft time based on smaller gears, which take less torque to work through.. So by the time the GT is at a position to threaten us in 3rd gear, he must use third gear to try and close the gap we already have on him.. LOL!! By the time he negotiates through 4th gear, we're almost through the traps.. So no problem.. Not too worry!

scrming

There you go again... forgetting that my tires are 27.8 inches tall not the stock 27 inches! LOL! I don't remember my exact RPMs when i went through the traps but it seems it wasn't quite as high as 5287... I tend to focus on the speeedometer when I go through the traps.... I'll try to pay attention to the tach next time! LOL!

One thing with the 4.10s... it does make it harder to launch with out spinning half way down the track! Lidio thinks I need to pull the 4.10s out so I can hook better... I'm going to disagree with him here and work to get the car so it hooks better WITH the 4.10s... (LCAa, stock springs back in, drag shocks... and maybe some day some drag radials or slicks) While the 4.10s maybe tougher to launch and can break the tires loose when the juice comes on, they are certainly a lot of fun around town since I save the n20 for the track... LOL

MSP

Ok so the difference is based on your speed you were at 5135rpm.. A difference of 151rpm.. LOL!! Com'on man, lets not quibble over such small discrepencies... Whether you like it or not, that is your rpm, based on your speed when running through the traps... Math is not fiction..

It is interesting that the point of your tires breaking loose is towards the middle of the run..

I am content I did go with the 3.73's.. But those 4.10's seem like alot of fun..

scrming

Math is not fiction? Apparently you've never balanced my checkbook! LOL!

Actually I spray pretty early.... As soon at I go WOT... now I don't slap the pedal right down .. but I would say I hit WOT... maybe 3 or 4 seconds in... ???? Will be nice when we can do our datalogging with just the X-Cal2... because there is no way I'm taking my laptop in the car when i run! LOL!

MSP

Yes ok.. I was just looking for your Dyno graph to try and understand whats happening..

I looked at some numbers at your 1/8th mile.. This may not be accurate, but its a start.. I am just guessing your shifting from 3rd to 4th around the 1/8th mile point.. Looking at this in detail, says your going from 3rd gear at a engine rpm speed of 5742rpm, then shifting into 4th which is putting the engine speed at 4073rpm... This is the point where your waiting and then going WOT.. Now looking at the powerband range here, it is no wonder your breaking the tires loose in this area, because going WOT at 4072rpm is pretty much where your heaviest amount of torque is located while on the bottle spraying.. I would guess, when shifting from 3rd to 4th, then going WOT, your engine is producing pretty close to your 350FT lbs of torque.. Instantly.. It could be that street tires may not be able to hold traction under any circumstances, and that slicks may be the only answer..

What do you think?

This is only a discussion and not fact.. So if you feel something is not accurate, please dont flame in public.. LOL!! There is nothing wrong with trying to understand, to help others...

Also, I find it highly unlikley that you could be waiting 3 or 4 seconds before going WOT and still run a 13.4.. So That may be alittle much to guesstimate..

scrming

no flaming here... LOL!

I think I'm acutally spraying in 1st gear.. no later than 2nd... i'm trying to think what my best 60' time was without the juice... for some reason I think I don't go WOT until after I'm buy the 60' since I think my 60' havent changed much... that's why I think 3 or 4 seconds... Of course the easist way would be to hook the laptop up...

MSP

What are your thoughts on the 3rd to 4th shift point around the 1/8th mile.? Are you spinning somewhat around this shift point, once you go WOT?

scrming

the shift sounds about right... On a good track I really only spin out of the hole... On a bad track I can spin half way down! LOL!

BTW, stock rear springs and new rear drag shock go in today!

MSP

Yes, this will help out alot coming out of the hole on launch.. I am alittle concerned however about breaking loose at the 1/8th mile point.. Allthough, the weight transfer should also help at this point..


Let me ask you a question.. Might sound dumb, but you never mentioned it..

Are you guys shifting the Auto trans manually, or going from the Drive position?

I am thinking that it may be beneficial to possibly shift into 4th before the 1/8th mile point.. This will allow the rpms to drop down alittle further, away from your peak TQ value of 350Ft lbs.. Lets say 300ft. lbs with WOT... This wont allow the tires to break loose, then you can make it up and then some after the 1/8th mile.. Does that sound feasible? Do you understand what I mean..?

If you shift into 4th early, you allow the shift to happen at a lower RPM, on the below 4000rpm while going into 4th.. This way, your on the build up path as opposed to being on the peak side of the powerband in regards to torqe.. This will give you more track, in a more controlled situation in which to get a faster trap speed and quicker time, if everything works out as planned.. Think about it before you answer..

scrming

Put it in Drive and go! LOL!

I know I never break loose on the 3-4 shift... On a bad track I might spin the 2-3... but never 3-4... On a good track the tires can actually take a hard 1-2 shift...(i think it's 1-2... could be 2-3..LOL)

MSP

LOL!! Well lets hope the new rear-end setup allows for more weight to be transferred to the back which should help to minimize any wheel spin...

I can see how the 3.73's would help on the wheel spin though.. Atleast we are able to understand the dynamics of the 4.10 vs. the 3.73 under severe adverse conditions.. Thanks for being so open about this.. Atleast I know when its time for me to make my first appearence, I'll be ahead of the game because you opened up to us in regards to your situation with the 4.10's..

This is of course relative to running on street tires and not slicks.. Slicks would introduce an entirley different scenario.. But none the less, its progress while at the track.. Its really valuable information.. Whether people choose to read it is another situation.. LOL!!