MSP

Of course.. We will all be really happy running low 13's to mid 12's for sure.. But its always good to plan for the day you get greedy, after being smoked by a GT.. This is the day you must plan for.. No need to tear out the rear-end and install a new gear.. You planned for this day from the ground up! LOL!! Its like a blueprint.. All thats needed is alittle more boost..

rygenstormlocke

True true. To be honest, my goals have nothing to do with a GT. My goals have to do with imports, specifically the WRX, 350Z and EVO. I already lay down the law to these civics, integra and rsx wannabes. But at the track I go to in MD, its mostly ricers....and I want to roll up in my V6 Stang...put a beating on them in the 1/4 mile.

scrming

I'm getting the feeling from you that some how you think if we stay below 5400 RPM everything will be cool, but go above 5400 RPM and all heck lets loose... I realize I'm only running a 100HP shot... but I've got about 20 passes at 100HP and 10 passes at 75HP and my car shifts at about 5900... MSP, I value your opinion and info... but the way I interpet your above statement it's like the 5300-5400 is gospel... I mean we've got Mikes good advice... and ancedotal evidence... but no hard fact that says below 5400RPM no problems, above 5400RPM big problems... I'm not saying your wrong, or that staying below 5400 RPM is a bad idea... it's just the way you state it makes it seem like a hard fact, when I don't believe that to be the case...

MSP

LOL!! I'm focused soley on GT's!! No need for me to lie about it!! The 4.0 and I have sworn an oath to each other! It consist of obnoxious GT owners!! Nothing more, nothing less!

MSP

I'm just interpeting his suggestion.. Not putting down the 4.10.. If you notice, I overcome every obstacle placed in front of us with numbers.. There are those that try and make it seem impossible for us by any means..I consistantly prove them wrong with the numbers.. You and I know what we know... I know you can still safley get to 5600 to 5700rpm.. I am just thwarting the efforts to make us give up hope.. The 4.10 is ok Scrming.. This is not an indictment against it, just a case why we cant be stopped with speculation..

scrming

I said nothing about my 4.10s... gears have nothing to do with what I was saying...

The automatic is programmed to shift at about 5800 to 5900 RPM when WOT. When you are not at WOT the computer shifts based on MPH but when you go WOT it switchs to RPM based...

What I'm trying to point out is some who comes in hear and read your post could walk away thinking "If I stay under 5400 I'm guaranteed to be safe" when in fact that might not be the case... I'm just pointing out that you worded the 5300 - 5400 range thing a little to strongly...

BTW I would never flip ANYONE off who passes me... To many crazys out there with guns! LOL!

MSP

It sounds like your taking things too personal.. Also, I dont have an automatic, so do not run numbers for something I dont own.. I cant help with automatics.. This type of issue is why I prefer to own a 5spd.. So I'm not sure what you want me to say.. Your inserting a different issue into my thought process which I had no reason to think through.. You also have totally different gearing 1st through 5th than me, so none of my calculations will match up with your setup.. Basically, unless someone ask me, I wont calculate the numbers for an automatic transmission, in regards to shift points and 1/4 mile rpm engine speeds..

Also, the 5300-5400 rpm range is a good place, if your thinking about longterm engine stability.. I cant help it that the shift point of the Auto trans is set to 5800-5900 rpm, and this stresses the motor more, and distorts and stresses timing chains.. LOL!! I dont really know what you want me to say Scrming.. Remember you hve the same tranny as the GT Automatic.. Maybe it was not a good idea for ford to set the shift point so high on the 4.0 Automatic, because then guys that street race will most likley hurt their engines sooner than those that own 5spds.. LOL! See what I mean, how complicated and personal this becomes.. This will create a faction for every group..

1. GT guys with 5spds
2. 4.0 guys with 5spd
3. GT guys with Auto Trannys
4. 4.0 guys with Auto Trannys
5. GT Guys with 5spds and blowers.
6. GT guys with 5spds and Nitrous
7. GT guys with 5spd and Turbo's
8. 4.0 guys with 5spds and blowers.
9. 4.0 guys with 5spds and Nitrous
10. 4.0 guys with 5spds and turbo's
11. GT guys with Auto tranny's and Blowers
12. GT guys with Auto Trannys and Nitrous
13. GT guys with Auto tranny's and Turbo's
14. 4.0 guys with Auto tranny's and blowers.
15. 4.0 guys with auto trannys and Nitrous
16. 4.0 guys with auto tranny's and turbo's

17. GT guys with 5spds and blowers running 4.10's


And on and on and on.. All these different mustang guys hate each other, and are always fighting.. Please dont do this Scrming.. Dont seperate us like this!

scrming

How do you know? What is your proof?

MSP

See thats what started all of this Scrming! We had an attack over the bow, with the timing chains.. They saw we were working out the numbers to the point to where we could be competitive with the GT's.. You yourself are running faster than a stock GT..

Then out of no where, we get this thing about the timing chains and the 4.0 can't handle it.. Then I go and start picking up the shattered pieces using tidbits from people here and there such as Mike @ Powerhouse who says with his Turbo, his motor is done producing power @ 5300RPM.. He say's this is safe..

So its not me Scrming.. I know what your trying to get at, but you must look at the sequence of events over the past few days.. Once we proved that in fact the 4.0 could be used to beat GT's, they tried to slap us back down.. I had to rework the numbers, using creditable sources to prove again we have a good motor.. Dont you understand whats taking place all around us? They want us all to have GT's.. Either you have a GT or dont have any hope, is the message they are all trying to put out.. They know we have a good motor, they hate us for it..

scrming

Yes, I'm very well aware of the sequence of events... You've got one guy who say's the 4.0L will fly apart with the slightest bump in power... Mike suggests that keeping RPM lower helps and their turbo setup is on the back side of the curve at 5300RPM... I don't know how you can sit there and say that keeping between 5300 and 5400 RPM is the key to engine longevity...???? Just because Mike's turbo setup has peaked by 5400 RPM? Where is your durabillity studys that show that a 4.0L run at 5400RPM will significantly out last a 4.0L run at 5900RPM?

MSP

You've boxed yourself in because apples are being compared to oranges.. I know what got your goat.. The 4.10's place you out of spec.. Since the 4.10's place you on the other side of the fence, you have taken this personal, and now our friendship is on the line.. LOL!!

Look man, the first art of war is divide and conquer.. They have somehow successfully infiltrated our camp, and pitted us against each other.. I have a 5spd with 3.73's.. You have an Automatic with 4.10's.. Mike runs his 05V6 with a 3.55 gear with a GT 8.8 rear-end..

This is why it upset me for Mike to switch to the 8.8 and run a GT gear.. (3.55).. Then show us results..

I myself personally blelieve the cars will be fine @ 5900rpm.. But just to play it safe, why not agree with me that 5300rpm is good for longevity? You cant because you have 4.10's with an Automatic, which shifts at 5800-5900.. I understand.. We'll just have to figure this out man.. Relax.. Have a beer.. Let me think it through..

Thomas S

He also has a tuner and can change the shift points at any time. He just doesn't feel the need to.

rygenstormlocke

I have an auto too, and I figured if I ran into any issues I can change it with a tuner.

scrming

Spec? What specs? Specs that you just made up? Show me hard, scientific proof that running the RPMs up to 5800 or 5900 put me significantly more at risk then shifting at 5400 RPM? I understand the 5900 may be harder than 5400... that's just common sense.. but SHOW ME hard physical evidence that my motor will fail sooner than if I programmed it to shift at 5400 RPM? I Jimp pointed out I can change the car to shift when ever I want it to... This has nothing to do with the 4.10s....

MSP

He does not need to because he is not running 400RWHP.. When we initially got to a point where it was shown that we could conceivably get to close to 400RWHP, the subject changed.. Then they through out the timing chains..

In Scrmings case, he is only producing 253RWHP, and 384RWTQ.. He's fine with revving up to 5900RPM..

When I talk I talk in (when it happen's) scenarios.. This is so we can plan from the bottom up with all of our modifications.. This is primarily the argument for the gearing.. Right now, with Scrming power level, his engine is fine shifting at 5900RPM.. But what will happen with more power, was said to be the timing chains and jackshafts will start to act up.. LOL!! Oh boy, this has gotten way outta hand.. But anyway, at high rpm under tremendous load of 350 to 400RWHP the timing chains and the engine design will play a part in distortion and start to ruin things.. Scrming is not to this level yet, so shouldnt be worried.. But I will set my car up to plan for the future.. And discuss things which pertain to reliablity at high HP loads to the system and design of the engine..

You know it wasnt me jimp who started this timing chain fiasco..

MSP

Scrming calm down man, I'm on your side.. I didnt bring up this subject.. Plus all of this doesnt apply to your situation.. Like I said, your at 253RWHP.. Your ok..

The suubject was brought forth when we had all decided and came to the conclusion that our motors can stand toe to toe with a 4.6 up to a certain point.. This point being a stock 4.6 to a midley modded 4.6.. Forget about 500HP 4.6's, cause we cant keep up, unless we change out several things.. But thats an entirely differnet conversation..

Also stop fooling yourself about the 4.10's.. They do require a higher rpm range of the motor to run at 115MPH than a 3.73 or 3.31.. Ive already run the numbers..

The numbers are the same for the 5spd and the Auto, this number is 1.00.

Thomas S

I know. But I'm glad it was brought up and discussed. Nothing wrong with being cautious and careful with our upgrades. But it also doesn't mean we shouldn't mod our cars either. I feel pretty good about the NOS after seeing how far Mike has pushed the engine with no failures so far.

MSP

Yes, I really do like the NOS as well.. It produces and makes our motors react in a good way.. Gobs of Torque, and mild on the HIGH RPM HP.. But regardless. In a few days, there will be something else they try and throw at us.. Remember how worked up I got about the timing chains..? See how much of an effect the arguement has on the total setup? Before I was using 5500 to 6000 as a good shift point.. This made us extremely competitive with GT's.. People got pissed off.. Then Mike tossed in the timing chains, in an attempt to not ruin my parade..

But Mike told us info that is good for us to know and to plan for.. So for that, as hard as the pill was to swallow, I thank him.. He brought to light an issue that could hurt our motors later.. Now we are all aware of it, and can plan for a way to circumvent it..

scrming

Me be calm? I'm not the one who went off yesterday and I qoute:

"Acutually, as far as I am concerend this discussion from me is over.. I no longer desire his Turbo and will look for another method or company.. There are other Turbo producers out there whose attitude toward the 4.0 is not so scattered..

So keep the Turbo Mike! No need to explain at all why your position of the car has changed so dramatically.. Most guys here may not understand what your true underlying position was, but I do.."

You went off half-cocked without the whole story...

What I don't like is you are making claims on the engine longitvity with no evidence to back it up. This RPM thing may all be common sense but where is the proof? You just decided on your own that 5300-5400 was the "spec". There is enough mis-information about the V6 without you making the bold claims you are making...

MSP

What I dont like is you getting pissed off at me, then asking for proof.. Why didnt you show some spine to them and ask them for proof.. It was their recommendation.. I actually dont give a darn what you like scrming.. I didnt start this, but your trying to blame me for conclusions Mike and your buddy Damage Inc came to.. Whats your problem... I'm the easy one to pick on, cause your such a whimp, you didnt have enough courage to ask them to show you proof about the reliablity of the 4.0? You need to kick back man, and get off my back. If you wanna act tough, show me a quote where you questioned the authors of the reliablity theory in conjunction with the timing chains.. You cant cause your a whimp!

At least I saw Jimp had enough courage to question them on their theories..