06GTwJUICE

Just curious what the majority of you have done. I've considered using them and as someone suggested useing them and zero'ing out the vct function.

What has everyone done and why?

I'm getting everything together and want to do it right the first time.

I assume I'd lock it out in the fully retarded position.

Comp Cam VSR Stage 2 cams.

thanks

jake

classix_stang289

i think people use the lockouts for more aggressive tuning(fine tuning)

classix_stang289

i say go for it! lol

anthony05gt

The BBR stage 2 cams lockout at 17 degrees advanced. The question should be: Should I use lockouts along with a spring change? And what if the phase limiters ever malfunction and cause a piston to crash into a valve? I keep hearing over and over....do springs....do lockouts. It doesn't have to be done, but the added friction from the springs causes VCT lag time and other tune problems. That's what I hear anyway. Just look into it before you jump. And not just here on this forum.

EagleStroker

The lockouts are actually what's preventing the cam from crushing a valve. Take it from me, this is my 2nd set of pistons for a reason. When we first built the car lockouts were non existent. Everything was fine for the first 100 miles or so, then it starting knocking like no other. Tore it down and low and behold 2 pistons were royally f'd so a refresh later and we still don't know what's going on. Tune it, drive it, happens again BUT we caught it in time - finally figured out what it was doing and voila. For those who don't know how the phasers work it retards or advances the timing depending where you are in the RPM range - what it was actually doing is advancing one cam and retarding the other for whatever reason (best guess is the knock sensors were picking up noise from the new pistons).

That's why I would suggest them, expensive mistake. As to the lag time you were referring, a good tuner can take car of that but you do need someone that's really on their game

Before I'd listen to what I say though, call the manufacturer. See what they recommend b/c if i'm not mistaken they say lockouts aren't required for anything less than a stage 3.

exgto

I have the comp 127300 cams, which I beleive may be the same cam you are describing. Anyway, I consulted with Livernois, and at the time they had just released their lockouts, so we put them in.

With my cams being pretty mild, piston to valve collisions were not the concern, but rather a phaser failure was what we were trying to prevent. We put the car on the dyno, and it was a dissapointment, partly because the lockouts rob horsepower by nullifying the VCT. Some people have done back to back dyno runs with lockouts/no lockouts and found as much as 40 hp w/o the lockouts. Livernois will tell you the lockouts reduce power by 10-15 whp on average. Understand they may have a vested interest in stating that loss conservatively. To say it another way, you could see more than a 10-15 hp gain with using limiters as opoosed to lockouts.

Now, the best of both worlds is Livernois limiters. They limit advance to 20 degrees, so you will not have piston to valve collisions, and Mike at Livernois claims that eliminate phaser failure to a 99.9% ceetainty. They have done extendive testing with their limiters and are not having ANY failures. They highly reccomend them in all but the most serious builds. In other words, cars built for the strip, or ultra high horsepower, they suggest a full lockout.

I removed my lockouts and installed their new limiters and my car is putting down around 550whp. I would suggest you call Livernois and talk to Mike.

06GTwJUICE

I'm installing the 127300 cams in my car as well.

The confusion starts because Brenspeed and Comp Cams site lists them as stage 2 and another site Evoperform lists them as Stage 3 cams. I'm leaning toward believing Comp Cam since they made the cams.

Sites all say just Valve springs are required.

I inquired about lockouts at Brenspeed and they said not needed and to take advantage of the VCT. They have no seen a failure on the phasers and contribute any issues with them from low oil pressure. They operate with oil pressure and if they don't get enough they start to make noise and then have a potential to fail and be noisey.

exgto

Just go by the part # and specs. There has been some variance in nomenclature by Comp since they came out with more cams.

Be sure you get the heavier (HD) comp springs. The other comp springs are actually weaker than stock and are believed to be repackaged 2 valve springs.

Oil pressure is how VCT functions yes, but bare in mind that a spring change may impact oil pressure. The conventional wisdom among engine builders is to use lockouts or limiters anytime springs are changed.

06GTwJUICE

I just got the cams and springs via ups from Comp.

The springs are the correct part number on brenspeeds site but the box says Ford 4.6L 2 valve sohc valve springs.

so a dohc is basically a sohc x2??

I'll call brenspeed and verify.

06GTwJUICE

I looked on Comp Cams website and the part number I received is the correct one for the valve springs. There is an option of heavy duty springs but it say for turbo/supercharged apps above a certain rpm.

Max redline for the cams powerband is 6400rpm.. am I to assume I can have redline bumped up to 6400?

EagleStroker

For sure, mine are good to about 7200. I'd get it bumped so you take advantage of your new cams

06GTwJUICE

7200rpm on a V8... that thing must scream!!!

EagleStroker

On a low compression motor too only taken it that far a few times but man it goes like a bad out of hell

06GTwJUICE

Is the valve springs the only thing preventing a normal car from revving that high? I would think that valves and locks would need to be replaced as well? no??

exgto

You want the heavier springs...trust me. The springs they sent you are softer than your stock 3v springs.

There are doccumented cases of people installing the springs you received and experiencing a power loss due to valve float.

Send them back and get the heavier springs.

06GTwJUICE

I'm going to talk to them monday and see about returning these and getting the HD ones.

I talked to, of all people, my girlfriend who knows nothing about cars, explained the situation to her and she said... "get the better ones".

EastCoast07GtCs

You'll be better off in the long run, good for her for realizing that!

anthony05gt

[quote=EagleStroker;5724247]The lockouts are actually what's preventing the cam from crushing a valve.

That's right, but I'm not sure about needing just a good tuner to compensate for the added friction from heavier springs. I've read on another forum where some are saying you'll need an even higher volume oil pump to compensate for the lag, but of course this is all talk. It's just a good idea to keep the discussion full of what's being said so the right questions are asked.

EagleStroker

All a normal car would need to rev that high is a tune, but without a cam you simply won't make any power so what's that point?

[QUOTE=anthony05gt;5726028]We actually had some oiling issues when we first put everything together but after my tuner played with it a little we have had 0 issues. I'm a firm believer (from experience) that with an extremely competent tuner your cars capable of more than you could ever imagine. There just aren't enough of them out there IMO.

anthony05gt

I don't doubt that. I personally went with the lockouts because I am pushing the stock bottom ends limits with the Whipple. Kevin MacDonald tunes my car (Also tunes Justin Burcham's 8.50's car) He's about the best out there. I'll have to ask him what he thinks because JPC Racing uses a lot of Comp cam set ups and Kevin tunes them all.