I would think everyone here would want a turbo system as most of you are saying that the car is your daily driver. Turbo systems are much more reliable in addition to being more efficient.
Both superchargers and turbochargers require high compressor rpm to compress the air. This ranges from 30,000-65,000 rpm in superchargers and can be even higher with turbos (over 100,000 rpm). In order to achieve the high rpm levels required to compress the air to the psi required, superchargers must have a step-up mechanism (gears, belts, pulleys or a combination thereof) consisting of numerous moving parts, to convert 6,000 engine rpm to the 40,000+ rpm necessary to build boost. Turbochargers need no step-up mechanism and have only one moving part, the compressor/turbine wheel assembly. The simplicity of the turbocharger is therefore less prone to mechanical problems. Superchargers must have a belt to drive them, and belt slippage or breakage is a common problem. More serious problems include crankshaft, bearing and engine damage caused by belt tension forces on the crankshaft. Turbochargers have no belt and no direct mechanical connection to the crankshaft, thereby eliminating these problems. It is interesting to note that many automobiles and nearly all large over-the-road trucks use turbochargers that regularly log in excess of a million miles of reliable performance.

 

As far as turbo reliability, I think a lot of the older guys have a stigma against it. It wasn't until recently that turbo blades got the right materials to make them last forever. Superchargers is all they know. Younger kids love turbos, which is real prevalent in the import market which is skewed towards the younger generation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clockworks @ March 2, 2006, 11:13 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Word, Procharger's track record on the net with 05's is less than reassuring. Even if it was the owners' fault each time, I'm all about peace of mind...

The Saleen grenade was 3rd hand knowledge and Don's letting go with the Kenne Bell was a "fluke" imo.
[/b][/quote]

When we ask about Saleen "kills", no one seems to know of any.

 

Well the saleen by default is configured to make around 400 HP, and Saleen did that for a reason. People are only starting to believe the pros who said that these cars are only safe at 400 because of the powder cast and cracked internals. I always chuckle at those that say they have 450 HP at 10 psi because a motor grenade is imminent.

Keep yourself at 400HP and you'll be safe.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ March 2, 2006, 10:09 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Keep yourself at 400HP and you'll be safe.
[/b][/quote]

Unless something else (like a cat failure) bites you in the ****.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ March 2, 2006, 1:09 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Well the saleen by default is configured to make around 400 HP, and Saleen did that for a reason. People are only starting to believe the pros who said that these cars are only safe at 400 because of the powder cast and cracked internals. I always chuckle at those that say they have 450 HP at 10 psi because a motor grenade is imminent.

Keep yourself at 400HP and you'll be safe.
[/b][/quote]

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif[/img] My neighbor has an 05 with a 9lb intercooled ProCharger (JBA LT's/axle-back, off-road H, 4.10's) and he beats the living crap out of that thing. I hear him pull out of my neighborhood and from 1/4 mile away I can hear him hitting 2nd and 3rd and you can tell the thing is begging for traction. He told me that the last 3500 miles on the car (since he put the blower on) have been the hardest he's driven it. On a dynojet it spun the rollers to 456rwhp. He told me the other day he doesn't know why it's lasted this long and knows he's on borrowed time. Also said he's seeing a little smoke here and there [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ March 2, 2006, 7:57 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
JR I think people are scared of centrifugal blowers (Procharger) because they seem to be grenading motors a lot more in these cars. I think the running total at Modular Fords is 6 Procharger grenades. Now that data might be skewed because more people bought Prochargers early on. I think now we've seen every type of blower grenade a stock 3V so far (Procharger, Saleen, Kenne Bell, not sure about Vortech or Roush).
[/b][/quote]


OK I hear ya buddy but I have installed enough Vortech and Paxton kits to know the tune that comes in the box is safe as can be.

Our kit will be the same way - if you leave it alone and don;t try to over boost it, you should be fine.

 

Yeah people tend to be overzealous and tweak it to the max. At least when people complain when they grenade they can't blame it on you.

 

I can't begin to tell you all the stories about blown up engines with blowers. Ironically I just got a call from a Turbo guy that has a customer with a 1997 Whipple that detonates something fierce. He claims it came with no proper tuning. However the guy knows there is a problem but keeps driving it.


So whose fault is it now? The customer has an obligation to communicate before the sh-t hits the fan not after

 

I hear the magic safe 400 hp number tossed around quite a bit. How do we know the engine can handle this over a lengthy period of time??? I would like to throw the FRPP Whipple when it comes available. I'm just not sure how strong these engines really are.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ March 2, 2006, 2:50 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I hear the magic safe 400 hp number tossed around quite a bit. How do we know the engine can handle this over a lengthy period of time??? I would like to throw the FRPP Whipple when it comes available. I'm just not sure how strong these engines really are.
[/b][/quote]
With proper tuning not canned tune, you can easily go to 500+, but be ready to get a new clutch. Everyone needs to realize that there are a million speed shops out there and only a few that know computer tunning very well and can make a reliable system

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Route 66 @ March 2, 2006, 3:50 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I hear the magic safe 400 hp number tossed around quite a bit. How do we know the engine can handle this over a lengthy period of time??? I would like to throw the FRPP Whipple when it comes available. I'm just not sure how strong these engines really are.
[/b][/quote]


I had posted a bunch of links to MM&FF I think where they discussed the limitations of the stock engine and why this was so. I'm too lazy to search again for it

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dustindu4 @ March 2, 2006, 6:42 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I had posted a bunch of links to MM&FF I think where they discussed the limitations of the stock engine and why this was so. I'm too lazy to search again for it
[/b][/quote]
my turbo that was just installed was done for an article in MM&FF written and installed by Richard Holdner... I gaurentee in the second article we will be close to 450-475 rwhp on stock motor and stock exhaust under 8lbs of boost [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TURBO 05 @ March 2, 2006, 3:12 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
With proper tuning not canned tune, you can easily go to 500+, but be ready to get a new clutch. Everyone needs to realize that there are a million speed shops out there and only a few that know computer tunning very well and can make a reliable system
[/b][/quote]

500 at the crank maybe. 500 at the tires - not on stock guts [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TURBO 05 @ March 2, 2006, 5:40 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
my turbo that was just installed was done for an article in MM&FF written and installed by Richard Holdner... I gaurentee in the second article we will be close to 450-475 rwhp on stock motor and stock exhaust under 8lbs of boost [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]

I hope you are right but I don't think so. My bet is 455 at the crank and 395 to the tires at 8psi. But again if your kit can do it then I guess mine can too. I will know all these answers in 2 weeks or less

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Granatelli @ March 2, 2006, 8:26 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
500 at the crank maybe. 500 at the tires - not on stock guts [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/eek.gif[/img]
I hope you are right but I don't think so. My bet is 455 at the crank and 395 to the tires at 8psi. But again if your kit can do it then I guess mine can too. I will know all these answers in 2 weeks or less
[/b][/quote]
Well we tested at 4lbs and made 375 at the wheels so with 8 psi i think 460-475 at the wheels will be no problem. It'll be in MM&FF in two articles one month after the next with the 4lb set up one issue and the 8lb the next. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
Well if you have a really great tuner for the cpu work then you should be able to do the same with just a different power curve due to the larger turbo

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TURBO 05 @ March 2, 2006, 9:05 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Well we tested at 4lbs and made 375 at the wheels so with 8 psi i think 460-475 at the wheels will be no problem. It'll be in MM&FF in two articles one month after the next with the 4lb set up one issue and the 8lb the next. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img]
Well if you have a really great tuner for the cpu work then you should be able to do the same with just a different power curve due to the larger turbo
[/b][/quote]


OK if you say so but if you can make 375 at only 4lbs then you had to be making 293hp N/A to the tires. That is like 43hp more then anyone else [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]

Assuming 293 N/A then 8lbs would give you 454hp. Again our numbers seem off [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img]

 

I could be wrong here, but Granatelli I know your in-house dyno is a Mustang Dyno whereas Turbo 05 may be using a Dynatech. That would account for a portion of the discrepency. But there is still about 20 HP that he is "overly optimistic" about (according to the calculation you used).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Granatelli @ March 3, 2006, 1:36 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
OK if you say so but if you can make 375 at only 4lbs then you had to be making 293hp N/A to the tires. That is like 43hp more then anyone else [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif[/img]

Assuming 293 N/A then 8lbs would give you 454hp. Again our numbers seem off [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/headscratch.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
The kit comes with better intake and removal of the cats and a custom tune so I think 293 N/A is very feasible. You are using ((14.7+Â*boost pressure (4)/14.7)* N/A horsepowerÂ*=Â*boosÂ*ted HP. There's voluÂ*Â*metÂ*ric efÂ*fiÂ*Â*ciency. The VE of a stock engine might be 65% at peak power while on the boosted car, it might be relative to NA, 110%. You can only use simple math for rough esÂ*Â*Â*timÂ*ates.
I really don't know what it will make at 8#'s but your calÂ*cuÂ*laÂ*tion is somewhat valid and I may be wrong I will know on Monday. Either way i know for sure my stock 05 with their turbo kit and 4#'s made 375RWHP

 

OK - well that seems fair. My car N/A with the following add ons

Granatelli Cold Air with calibrated MAF


Granatelli Billet Throttle Body


Granatelli Coils, Wires and Boots


Granatelli Fuego Flashtool


Granatelli 3" Exhaust System


made 318hp - However I need to change the tune so it is not fair to factor that in and the intake totally changes so cut that out too. - Like I said we will see. Is your car single or twin? and is there a picture of it. Also I would like to look at HP increases as they relate to Boost and RPM off the dyno

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Granatelli @ March 4, 2006, 4:29 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>


OK - well that seems fair. My car N/A with the following add ons

Granatelli Cold Air with calibrated MAF


Granatelli Billet Throttle Body


Granatelli Coils, Wires and Boots


Granatelli Fuego Flashtool


Granatelli 3" Exhaust System


made 318hp - However I need to change the tune so it is not fair to factor that in and the intake totally changes so cut that out too. - Like I said we will see. Is your car single or twin? and is there a picture of it. Also I would like to look at HP increases as they relate to Boost and RPM off the dyno
[/b][/quote]
I pick up the car on Monday I will see if I can publish Dyno pic's or I may not as it is for a MM&FF article, If I cant I will pm you the dyno graphs. Any chance you want to jump on the band wagon and hook me up with your 3" exhaust? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/04.gif[/img] , i bet the exhaust will make a good little difference. Also are you using aftermarket headers? I have the entire stock exhaust with the exception of the cats have been removed. I guess the real problem is not making enough horsepower with a turbo kit it is making the right amount that wonk kill the motor. FYI my kit is a single turbo kit