jwgroovin

First, the relevant mods: C&L CAI, custom SCT xcal tune (Woodbine Motorsports), BBK shorties, Bassani catted x-pipe, Mac axlebacks, FRPP 4.10 gears, Hurst shifter, Comp Stage 3 cams (with Comp springs and steel retainers), Steeda springs.

Without the cams, the car was dyno tuned to 301.76 hp, 317.62 torque
With the cams, the car was dyno tuned to 323.52 hp, 309.71 torque

Win some and lose some.

Before the cams, I hit max hp at 5000 RPM, now it's at 6000RPM.

The car idles at 8-900rpm, there is NO lope that I can hear. The tuner tried to get the idle rpm lower, but had problems with cold start and coming to a stop with the clutch depressed.

Were the cams worth it? The car definately feels stronger up top, that's for usre. But even so, I can't help feel 20hp for nearly 2 large just isn't worth it. I'm not sure it would be worth it if I did it myself either, although I would have liked the experience.

To regain some low end torque I have few options but I could get ported heads. But that's $1500 minimum, I believe, plus fluids, parts, labor, etc. I can't imagine even bothering at this point.

If I could go back in time, I would get everything I have now minus the cams. With the money saved, I'd put in two drive shaft loops, add a Zex kit, get a custom tune for the nitrous, and have a 375HP demon at the track and run twelves any day I wanted to. When the clutch went, I'd add a spec 2 and aluminum flywheel, and probably just do a Denny's driveshaft at the same time. In fact, that's EXACTLY what I'm going to do--I didn't deviate too much with this plan, but I could have paid for all of that with the money that went into the cams.

Bottom line, listen to your tuner, listen to your experts. Ford did a fantastic job with the system, and there is unfortunately at this time diminishing returns after the cold air kit/tune and 4.10 gears go in. Exhaust, udp, throttle bodies and delete plates do add some, but unless you're doing all your own labor, the bang for the buck doesn't seem to be there (although it does add up another 25hp, perhaps). I think nitrous a better option if S/C isn't in your immediate future.

If you want to be in the fast 10% or so, if you want a low ET at the track, go with a supercharger and a good tune. Hands down, the best bang for the buck.

I'll take a picture of the before/after graph if my camera can get a contrasty enough photo, and if not, I'll ask for a JPEG off the tuner's laptop. I can't make the track this week as all 3 local tracks have special programs running instead of test and tune, so that will have to wait until the weekend after next.

Comments welcome--even the "I told you so", but I'm bummed folks...

Xposted at Mustangforums.

John

mustangfan123

If, you had LT's,UDP's,CMDP's,and a bigger intake like the C&l Racer you would have about 340rwhp. Brenspeed installed cams and swapped out the C&l street for the racer version and they gained 5rwhp.Lt headers would give you about 10rwhp more over your shorties. The UDP's and CMDP's would net about 12rwhp.

uberPony

If you had any hair on you face you might be able to drive a car too!
You are trully the young prince of fantasy bench racing young man!

2006GT500

I agree with MustangFan, you need to let that thing breathe. A set of long tubes and an off road pipe might help. I've heard that shorties aren't really worth much as far as performance so that's just my opinion. You might not hit 340rwhp, but like he said Brenspeed did it with those cams.

exgto

Well it wasn't a total loss, although I am dissapointed for you as well. Are you sure there isn't more left in the tune?

jwgroovin

I think you missed the point regarding bang for the buck. Add it up son.

John

jwgroovin

Good point, not a total loss, but an expensive gain. If I didn't know the tuner personally this would have been MY first question. JJ from Woodbine Performance has built quite a reputation with tuning (his Mustangs and Lightnings are featured in 5.0 and MM&FF magazines), and spent 4 hours trying everything he could think of. You're point was raised by another individual on another forum, but I think I'll have JJ chime in here and the other forum and speak to the tune itself.

John

mrkabc

Thanks for the honest review John.

Sorry that the install doesn't significantly add much power. I guess that means (for me at least) to pass on this mod and scrimp and save for the future supercharger.

mustangfan123

Well I really do have a mustang that my parents drive, I heavily research mods, I ask my parents to buy them, and I help with the installs. There is nothing wrong with that,right?

SixtySix

I've got to ask, what were you expecting? I don't think it's a loss at all, you made as much power as Doug from Bamachips did (more or less) from what I recall when he installed them last year.

There really isn't ANY one mod out there that's going to give you more than a 20 hp gain by itself other than nitrous or a blower.

Look at it this way, when you do have that supercharger, you'll be making even more horsepower than if you didn't have the cams.

jwgroovin

Not at all. That's where I started back in the 70s with pushrod motors. It wasn't a criticism. But the "point" is that folks, ME INCLUDED, are spending money on mods that would be better put elsewhere if the intended outcomes is MAXIMUM HP and LOWEST ET at the track for the MINIMAL AMOUNT of money. UDPs, LTs, delete plates, throttle bodies do you little good due to the relatively efficient engine and computer management system found in the stock car. High 13s are easily attainable with a stock car, and if you want to reduce that and get close to twelves, the mods I have, and some of the the ones you mention, let you nibble away at the ETs, and give you some extra HP.

For some folks, especially the young cats, street cred is important (been there, and there's nothing wrong with that) and some folks just like adding everything in the catalog, but it helps to understand. Don't take this wrong, but it's one thing to research and read (that's an important and CRITICAL first step, and I applaud that attitude at your age), but it's another to put down hard earned cash and FEEL the result, good or bad. You're on the right track, but slow down and try to understand the meaning behind the statements some folks make. Behind some of the attitude and flames lies real truth.

If you want to dive into the twelves though, a stock car and the Zex nitrous kit will put you right there I think. Think about it: $550 + a few hours labor and you're running up against the Cobras.

So, I'm probably pushing twelves and will know in a week or so, have a great looking and sounding car, have a great community of Mustang enthusiasts to hang with, and am already thinking about my third Mustang. Them new Bullitts are going to be pretty cool...


John

jwgroovin

Now, if you were on a job interview, I'd hire you on the spot. That's called a win/win. Thanks for the reality check: what WAS I expecting?!?!

John

SixtySix

Let me correct you young man. Your parents have a Mustang, you don't. They pay the bills, you don't. They drive it, you don't.

Nothing wrong with researching, installing and helping out. But until YOU are paying the bills, paying for insurance, and old enough to drive the car, please don't misrepresent this as your car. It isn't. If you were to stop reffering to it as your car, you'd probably catch a little less grief.

mustangfan123

Its just with the flames its hard to listen to them since they r expressed in a negative attitude. If it was posted in a more positive manner, I would be able to listen to them more.

SixtySix

Funny thing is, I'm in between jobs right now

mustangfan123

I am not trying to address it as my car,but it seems like people don't see that. I even put my parents drive it in the little part under my avatar that says "car:" recently. I will try harder in the future to not address it as my car.

jwgroovin

The dyno results:

Faber

I think you got it wrong man! I think when the kid turns sixteen it is going to be his car...or soon thereafter. no need to get all high and mighty on him. I respect the fact that he researches and does his homework. He has also contributed on this forum to at least helping people pick some direction for their cars. I believe he has probably aquired some information gathering and extrapolation skills from this bench racing he is doing also. take it easy on him. I bet if the kid was able to drive, and had one of these cars, along with some disposable income it would probably be one bad ****.

I applaud you little fella! keep it up. don't worry about any grumpy old men....

mustangfan123

Thanks. I definitely picked up some knowledge. If you look back a year at my first few posts you will realize the difference in knowledge about these cars I have now than back then.

TillmanSpeed

When I was your age... I couldn't spell half of the words you use in your posts. You're A-Okay in my book. Just keep researching. By the time the car is yours, you'll know more about automobiles than any of your peers. Name someone in your class that can explain a return or returnless style fuel system?

Most people dont know it, but I've only been old enough to drink for just over a year. I'm still the "young guy" too, so I know how it feels. Knowledge is power. Power is money. You're on the right track.

CR