Anonimac

Someone who knows what they're talking about (not me since i'm asking obviously) please explain to me the logic behind the claims that spacers will give you additional HP.

Examples:
http://www.streetandperformanceelectronics.com/hptp.htm
http://www.airaid.com/450-610_ford.asp

Hope or hype??? and why?

I'm trying to squeeze every little bit of gitty up from my '06 GT and if some **** spacer will help i want to know about it! However, if it's a waste of money and won't net any HP/TQ i'll just go buy beer...

Thoughts?

Sharky

I'll sell you my Steeda TBS for $50 including the gaskets and bolts.
You can find out for yourself and besides Steeda would never put their name on something that didn't work.
/sarcasm

azoufan

I don't know about horsepower, but my Jet TB Spacer holds down paper on my desk better than any other performance part on the market.

bluethunderhorse

Most of them have grooves in them to spin the air when it enters the intake making better combustion, but thats like saying that the stripes on my car add hp too

281GT

Worthless on a modern car. Back in the days of primitive carberators a spacer between the carb and the manifold would increase plenum volume and to limited degree help straighten out the path that the air fuel mixture took after it left the carb. Since the mixing of the air fuel was all done in the carb anything you could do to smooth out the path of the mixture would decrease the chance of fuel dropping out of the air and pooling on the manifold floor before it reached the intake valve. On ancient systems like this a spacer actually had some value but it's going to do absolutely nothing on a modern car where the air and the fuel are mixed right in the intake port above the valve.

MaverickMLFD371

someone on here dyno'd 1 HP and 11 FT tq with the JET t/b spacer. i was the test mule for the JET T/B spacer way way way back in the beginning and let me tell you all, it worked, as much as you've said bad things about them, but they do work. this along with the combination of a custom tune, has eliminated the throttle lag completely!!! gone!! tap the gas pedal, feels like there's a wire on it. I did notice a low end grunt more and further more, I DID see my gas mileage go up about 2-3MPG, you want me opinion, it was well worth it!

so for 90 bucks to get rid of throttle lag, add about 10lbs of torque and increase gas mileage, I was satisfied!

jimh90sc

I'll sell you my JET TBS for $50 including the gasket and bolts.
You can find out for yourself and besides JET would never put their name on something that didn"t work
/sarcasm

Anonimac

I love it...although the one post about low end grunt and torque is still keeping me on the fence...

jimh90sc

Go for a CAI and a tune...... You won't be dis-appointed!

281GT

Well I'm sure not gonna try and tell you you didn't see the improvements you did from the spacer but I'd sure like to gain some sort of understanding as to exactly why the spacer made an improvment as with my current knowledge level I am not understanding it.
You mentioned that the throttle lag is gone with the addition of the spacer. Did you also change your tune at the same time? I'm just trying to determine if your throttle response improvement did actually come from the spacer or something else that might have been done at the same time.
IF you made absolutely not other changes at the time then it is safe to say that the spacer is responsible for improved throttle response.
So maybe if we keep digging we can all understand this thing a little better.
Thanks!

Anonimac

<Apply flame suit> OK, so i got the C&L Street CAI with the no tune option FOR NOW. I will tune when my warranty expires. I'm hoping the CAI opens up my exhaust a bit and if i do see a few extra horses in the mean time (until the tune) i can't say i'll be upset. </Apply flame suit>

I was just curious if i could squeeze a bit more out of it with this spacer stuff until i get a tune.

281GT

I see MaverickMLFD371 hasn't answered my question yet about weather or not the spacer instalation also went in at the same time as the tune. From the wording of his post it looks like the spacer and tune went in at the same time and I would bet that all of the throttle response improvement came from the tune. Unless one makes only one change at a time it is impossible to say which part is responsible for what though.
Anonimac: I'd save your money until we know more. I just want to hear from one person who did a before and after TB spacer install with NO other changes and checked on a dyno with before and after weather conditions as close as possible before I would spend a dime on this mod.

howarmat

Running a CAI without a tune can be dangerous. Some people run very lean after doing this....I dont care it the manufacture says a tune is NOT and its a C&L....get the tune or risk the engine going boom!

281GT

Yeah howarmat is absolutely right. Even with the CAI's that claim their product doesn't need a tune using a CAI with the stock tune is asking for trouble. I have spoken to a couple of dyno shops who have tested this and they have found that running any sort of a CAI without a tune can result in a dangeously lean A/F ratio. The manufacturers of CAIs' who are claiming no tune required are betting on the possibility that you won't drive it enough at W.O.T. to burn a valve. Personally I would not take this chance. Recently I was at the track and was lucky enough to able to do 4 back to back runs. In a case like this a lean mixture could have easily burnt a valve or worse.
Don't take a chance. A device such as an SCT Xcal 2 or a Diablosport Predator and a proper tune is a LOT cheaper than dealing with a burned exhaust valve or worse.

wallace

all you're going to squeeze w/ this thing is your wallet.
there are probably plenty of guys w/ this thing laying around collecting dust. like me, and some swearing by it.... even after i was told by a dude that had already fallen for this... i mean it was right there on their web site 8-10 HP, i did'nt get one horse, now you have a completely new car (S197) w/ drive-by-wire as oppose to a carburetor (SN95) and for those w/ a tune that see a gain from this mod ,remove the tune and then see if it works.

65sohc

If you simply look at the theory and physics behind this idea you should realize that it is absurd. The theory is that by creating turbulence in in the intake tract the air/fuel mixture will be more homogeneous resulting in a more complete burn. That is true in the combustion chamber, where swirl is advantageous and is accomplished by combustion chamber design with help, in the case of our engines, from the CMCP's. However turbulence is to be avoided prior to the intake valves. Why? Because turbulent air has less velocity than straight air and straight, high velocity air is what you want to pack as many oxygen molecules as possible into the chamber. Look at any race engine and you will see some form of velocity stack whose purpose is to reduce turbulence, not create it. Furthermore, even if the spacer did impart some swirl to the air between the throttlebody and the head, how could it possibly survive its way past the relatively tiny openings of the partially open CMCP's and the intake valves, which is the only situation in which a gain in fuel mileage could be observed.

n8rfastback

you wont be able to squeeze out much hp without getting tuned. its just not worth it. buy the parts, tune for them. you wont be unhappy.

kevinb120

Yup, I was going to say any change to the way the airflow enters the intake is negated by the CMCP's anyway... There's much better ways to get extra HP. CAI/tune, UDP's are proven. I don't think it makes sense to 'prove' a spacer makes extra power when you are re-tuning the car to prove it. Sounds like they simply installed the part and loaded tweaked throttle response and timing/a-f mixture a bit and claimed the spacer made the difference....As was said spacer plates for carburetor setups for airflow and preventing heatsoak into the carb were proven upgrades for that setup back in the day.

Without a tune, one just won't get much more HP out of the car N/A. If hes worried about warranty, no tune, no pullies, no headers... not a whole lot left to mess with.

MaverickMLFD371

well I've reread the posts and it took me sometime to get up to par. I may have left out some info for some so I'll get to some of the points.

I installed the spacer BEFORE I had a tune. myself and my father were the test mules to this theory in the beginning. when I got the spacer had the K&N intake at the time. before we installed it, we threw the stock airbox back on and did some testing. we both confirmed that the tune and the stock airbox was horrible. the following day we installed the K&N intake back in, and immediately noticed a difference in power, but yet the throttle lag was still there. that evening I installed the spacer and took it out for a nightly run and noticed a less lagish feeling in the response. I then drove the car the following morning to confirm and it really did clear up the lag a bit, but not a lot. my father then took the car and he too noticed a better response in the throttle.

about a month later I picked up a used C&L intake off ebay and bought an SCT tuner from doug @ bamachips. we got them both a days apart. so we took the K&N off and the spacer. and threw on the C&L intake and uploaded the 93 performance tune. the tunes were tuned simply for the C&L intake and 93 octane gas, no other mods! myself and my father took it for a spin. the car felt like a whole new car, (which most of you know being bamaheads) but once we had fun enjoying the car and the power, we got back down to the noticing the throttle response. and the response was very very much improved. doing the tapping test with the gas pedal at stop signs, my father noticed there was probably about .5 - 1 second lag when you first take off on the car in first gear. we did about 5 stop signs before we confirmed this.

a few hours later we bolted the spacer back on after dinner and fired the car up. I took behind the wheel first and immediately, when I barely put my toe on the pedal, the car wanted to go. the RPM jumped. wow, thats never happened before. drove it and I was very very pleased!! now was my dads turn. he did the tap test and was like "i barely have to tap it in order for it to go" that .5-1 second lag going in first gear, completely gone!!! this thing felt like it had a wire again.

as for the gas mileage I played around with the vehicle monitoring my driving conditions, load in my car (cause I was driving to and from school at the time, calculating milage traveled etc, message center, etc.) and came up with the number 2-3MPG. some have come up with the same figure number.


some of you may still be raising the eyebrow and may still be skeptical about this. but with the time and effort me and my father put into testing this, we both stand that the T/B did indeed work, although we never took the spacer on and off to compare dyno numbers. (another TMS member did it for everyone). when it comes to the throttle lag, I would say that 90% of the lag was gone due to the tune, I stand by that 100%, but 10% was still there, and the spacer cured it.

that is my report.

howarmat

I agree that it might improve the lag a little....but throttle reponse is different than HP gains. There will not be any HP gains that are claimed by the manufacture. You can adjust the tune to get rid of the throttle lag.