metroplex

After more familiarization with the GT and the TR-3650, I found that at approx 1000 RPM, I can downshift without having to revmatch or double clutch. So if I'm at 1000 RPM in 5th gear, I can downshift to 4th gear and then 3rd gear (if I am decelerating faster and can reach 1000 RPM or less) without revmatching. I find that if I dump the clutch after the shift, the ride may get very clunky. Can I gently release the clutch (almost like slipping it rapidly towards the top of the pedal travel) without significantly reducing the lifespan of the clutch?

For upshifts, I find it very hard to do a smooth 1st-2nd at above 2000 RPM because it seems like the engine/throttle is still hanging at a higher RPM. The traffic behind me isn't as patient as I when waiting for the RPMs to drop. It's probably my technique but I want to know how I can smooth this out.

I don't do burnouts, and I don't chirp the tires when launching.

spike

There was an old thread that talked the rev matching issue to death.. so much so that I think one guy decided he was never going to get a manual trans after reading it.
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=49769

As for the throttle lag, all the S197s have it. One old thread talks about it a little here:
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=45122
It can be fixed with a tune. But I found that you can just get used to it. It's still there but I just don't notice it anymore. If you're driving normal, the engine is obviously powerful enough that you don't need to take 1st gear very high before shifting to 2nd. I've done many a rolling stop in 2nd with plenty of power. If you're shifting quickly (doing a 0-60), well I guess it really doesn't matter.

metroplex

Yes, I agree that I'll most likely have to get used to it. However I don't downshift (or heel-toe downshift) coming to a stop. I do need to downshift before making a slow turn, or when I'm entering a checkpoint where I need to slow down without stalling out, or if I suddenly have to accelerate after slowing down. It seems like the shifter can downshift without revmatching if my RPMs are below 1k RPM (in the numerically higher gear) but would I be harming the clutch by letting it slip just a tad after the downshift?

Normally for coming to a complete stop, I brake until the engine is about to stall, depress the clutch, shift to Neutral, release clutch pedal. It seems like the most logical way to prevent throwout bearing wear at a stop light.

I wish there was a guide on how to make the clutch last longer in normal driving.

spike

I'm no professional driver, nor do I claim to be a transmission expert so take what I say with a grain of salt.

If you're not racing, there should be no reason to ever need a new clutch in any car for the life of the car. My previous manual transmission car never needed a new clutch even after 100,000 miles on it (ok ok ok, it was a 4 cylinder honda, but still..) The surface of the clutch is designed to slip without wear as long as it stays under a certain temperature. Lots of slipping creates high temperatures. Don't let the clutch hang at mid contact during starts and shifting. The amount of slip done during down shifting (if done relatively quickly), even if the revs aren't perfectly matched, should not do clutch damage. So, braking until the engine is about to stall or pressing in the clutch in right when you start to brake should have no effect on the clutch. Not rev matching creates extra work for the synchros and shift shock puts unnecessary strain on the transmission but should have no effect on not clutch wear.

Best advice I've heard... pay attention to what an automatic transmission does and then try to mimic it.

neil07gt

metroplex: how slowly do you release the clutch when starting in 1st from a stop?

One thing I don't like about the clutch is the amount of pedal travel.

Knight

my 99 GT has 130K+ miles and is on stock clutch and it still works perfect.

metroplex

I am not sure if I am doing this the "correct" way, but I usually release the pedal until the friction point and simultaneously apply gas. When this happens, my RPMs will rise up to some point between 1k-2k RPM and as it drops down I just release the clutch (when it feels like it won't stall out if I let go of the clutch). I am trying to get the hang of the hydraulic clutch as well, and my goal is to prevent it from stalling out. My 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts are clunky even when I shift at around 2k RPM. The 3-4 and 4-5 isn't too bad. I try not to slip the clutch at all (I just dump it) during upshifts.

For reverse, I usually just let the clutch hang at the friction point because I can't drive fast enough (tight parking spots, etc...) to let go of the clutch.

kevinb120

When you shift at normal rates, particularly to 2nd, letting it slip a bit to smooth things out is normal, its not an on-off switch. other then a slight blip, I have no issues say downshifting from 4th into 3rd at 75mph or into 2nd at 50. You still need to feather downshifts just like upshifts. All this heel-toe double clutch shifting stuff people worry about is complete nonsense. If you want a ride in mine I will make the car do whatever you want to see happen-chirp the tires in a downshift and drift into a power slide, shift 2-3 at WOT with no lift, downshift so smooth you can use eye drops, or come to a complete legal stop in first and continue at a crawl with my left foot flat on the floor the entire time...You can make it smooth on acceleration, or you should be able to get a nice chirp on the 2/3 shift if you feel like it on a bone stock car.

The way you are coming to a stop is the proper way to drive a manual.

RRRoamer

That's kind of a BOLD statement! To say the least...

Your clutch is a WEAR item, just like the brake pads and rotors. The more the vehicle weights and the more torque you have available, the faster the clutch will wear in day to day use. Of course, standard "abuse" will accelerate that wear.

But the clutch is no more made for the "life of the car" than the brakes or tires. Unless you define the "life" to be around 50k miles or less...

And just for the record, I don't consider 100k miles to be high milage. And no where near the "life" of a vehicle. My current 1981 Ford F100 has almost 300k miles on it and my brother sold his 1987 F250 when it had over 560k miles on it (and it was still running strong).

spike

my bad.. I didn't proof read. I had 180,000 mile on it not 100,000. Still not extremely high but I never had to replace the clutch.

G.T

spike

Ditto!

Hey kevinb120, sound like a good time to be in your pass. seat. Funny, I live about 20 miles from you. Actually just had dinner at fishbones in centreville on sunday night. If you see a tungsten GT with fanblades and a siverhorseracing fuel door on the beltway... give a wave.. it just might be me.

Paris MkVI

But heel-and-toe is fun!

metroplex

The steering column prevents me from doing heel-to-toe downshifting.

davisinla

Yup...it's like playing music!

How does the steering column get in the way of blipping the throttle with part of your right foot?

FRITZ

Would someone please tell a 53 year old man who has been driving manuels (off and on) for 40 years. What the heck is "heel-and-toe' driving is?

metroplex

Heel-toe requires the use of the ball of the right foot to apply the brakes, and the heel of the right foot to blip the throttle. However, in order to do this, one must pivot their foot counter-clockwise. The steering column will not allow my knee to pivot in such a way. The best I can do is use my heel for the brake pedal and the "toe" for the throttle. My right knee will always hit the steering column as I try to climb out of the car (specifically the dumb lock mechanism for the tilt control). My Crown Vic has a lever on the side for adjusting the tilt, while the Focus has a telescoping and tilt adjuster built into the side. I am not sure why Ford decided to go with the dumb setup on the Stang because it takes up real-estate.

FYI I have my steering wheel adjusted at the maximum tilt so I can read all of the gauges.

G.T

that's when you're braking and down shifting.. you hold down the clutch with your left foot, brake with the heel of the right foot, and tap/blip the accellerator a bit to rev match so you can down shift easier (you know how difficult it is downshifting the TR3650 under RPM)

spike

I've never heel-toed by actually using my heel on the pedals and I imagine that's rather hard and uncomfortable to do. Heel-toe as I know it is: With my heel on the floor between the brake and gas, I brake with the ball of my right foot on the right side of the brake pedal, then rock my foot to the right to blip the gas with the right side of my foot. My heel never leaves the ground, my knee barley moves, and my "toes" are in contact with both the gas and brake simultaneously.

RKNMACH

Downshifting is more fun than upshifting - you're trying to slow the beast and reign it under control while using both hands and feet to the symphony of high revs. Sweet sounding exhaust system helps define the moment. the beauty of a manual transmission...