Problems with my 18x9.5 Beyonds and KDW's
8/11/05 | 07:31 AM
#1
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Joined: October 13, 2004
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From: MD
I ordered 18x9.5 Konig Beyond wheels and BFGoodrich KDW 275/40/18's from Discount Tire via the internet. When I put them on I had a lot of wheel shake between 40 to 65 MPH. I felt like I was getting a hand massage. I come to find out all the tires were out of balance and had them all redone at a local tire shop. One of the tires required 6oz's to get it back in balance.
Now that it has been rebalanced I still get a small amount of wheel shake here and there. Is this normal or did I got a bad set of tires? The tire shop did some kind of road force test on them. The tires checked out ok but something doesn't feel right about them still. I'm hoping those with the same tire might be able to chime in and let me know if this is normal. Thanks!
Now that it has been rebalanced I still get a small amount of wheel shake here and there. Is this normal or did I got a bad set of tires? The tire shop did some kind of road force test on them. The tires checked out ok but something doesn't feel right about them still. I'm hoping those with the same tire might be able to chime in and let me know if this is normal. Thanks!
8/11/05 | 08:19 AM
#2
Bullitt Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 470
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Originally posted by bpmurr@August 11, 2005, 9:34 AM
I ordered 18x9.5 Konig Beyond wheels and BFGoodrich KDW 275/40/18's from Discount Tire via the internet. When I put them on I had a lot of wheel shake between 40 to 65 MPH. I felt like I was getting a hand massage. I come to find out all the tires were out of balance and had them all redone at a local tire shop. One of the tires required 6oz's to get it back in balance.
Now that it has been rebalanced I still get a small about of wheel shake here and there. Is this normal or maybe I got a bad set of tires. The tire shop did some kind of road force test on them. The tires checked out ok but something doesn't feel right about them still. I'm hoping those with the same tire might be able to chime in and let me know if this is normal. Thanks!
I ordered 18x9.5 Konig Beyond wheels and BFGoodrich KDW 275/40/18's from Discount Tire via the internet. When I put them on I had a lot of wheel shake between 40 to 65 MPH. I felt like I was getting a hand massage. I come to find out all the tires were out of balance and had them all redone at a local tire shop. One of the tires required 6oz's to get it back in balance.
Now that it has been rebalanced I still get a small about of wheel shake here and there. Is this normal or maybe I got a bad set of tires. The tire shop did some kind of road force test on them. The tires checked out ok but something doesn't feel right about them still. I'm hoping those with the same tire might be able to chime in and let me know if this is normal. Thanks!
Does it happen all of the time or just sometimes? I personally think the car is very sensitive to minor changes in the road. On new pavement I never have the vibration problem.
8/11/05 | 11:56 AM
#4
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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im running 285/30/20's with only 3" of side wall so its way different than stock. But the car had 20's from the dealer so i dont know what a stock stang feels like. It reminds me of my dads 5.0 with cut front springs.
8/11/05 | 12:03 PM
#6
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From: MD
Originally posted by tech@August 11, 2005, 8:22 AM
This is a problem with the stock setup as well. Many people have complained (including myself) of wheel vibration around that speed.
Does it happen all of the time or just sometimes? I personally think the car is very sensitive to minor changes in the road. On new pavement I never have the vibration problem.
This is a problem with the stock setup as well. Many people have complained (including myself) of wheel vibration around that speed.
Does it happen all of the time or just sometimes? I personally think the car is very sensitive to minor changes in the road. On new pavement I never have the vibration problem.
8/11/05 | 12:17 PM
#8
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Joined: February 7, 2005
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Originally posted by rhoover2@August 11, 2005, 11:10 AM
What is the correct torque for the wheels?
What is the correct torque for the wheels?
8/11/05 | 04:52 PM
#11
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Originally posted by PONY XPRESS@August 11, 2005, 3:46 PM
6oz of weight is too much. Have them pop the tire & rotate it 180 degrees & rebalance.
6oz of weight is too much. Have them pop the tire & rotate it 180 degrees & rebalance.
8/11/05 | 06:58 PM
#12
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From: MD
Originally posted by PONY XPRESS@August 11, 2005, 4:46 PM
6oz of weight is too much. Have them pop the tire & rotate it 180 degrees & rebalance.
6oz of weight is too much. Have them pop the tire & rotate it 180 degrees & rebalance.
8/11/05 | 07:10 PM
#13
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Joined: January 29, 2005
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Originally posted by bpmurr@August 11, 2005, 6:01 PM
They did but it shows the careless practices of Discount Tire. I guess it was the guys first day on the job. Funny thing is that I canceled the order a month ago but they showed up anyways and charged my card. I was thinking about going with 18x9 Bullits instead. The wheels do look hot on a silver car though.
They did but it shows the careless practices of Discount Tire. I guess it was the guys first day on the job. Funny thing is that I canceled the order a month ago but they showed up anyways and charged my card. I was thinking about going with 18x9 Bullits instead. The wheels do look hot on a silver car though.
8/11/05 | 09:27 PM
#14
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From: MD
8/11/05 | 11:02 PM
#15
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Joined: August 23, 2004
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Mine shake a little, but only when the tires are still cold. I had them put the weights on the inside even though they said they wouldn't be able to get as good a balance as putting them on the outside.
8/12/05 | 05:15 AM
#16
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From: MD
I drive about 35 miles to work in the morning on both back roads and highway. This morning I decided to test the car out a little. I seem to notice a little wheel shake still in the 50 to 70 MPH range. I had the car up to 105 MPH and it felt smooth as butter. I have no idea whats going on?
8/12/05 | 06:37 AM
#17
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Here's something I wrote a while back. Granted it's for 4x4 tires, but the concept applies to all:
Ok, I’ve seen numerous posts about balancing tires in the last few weeks. I'm going to try and explain everything I know about balancing, and hopefully this helps someone.
I spent 5 summers and X-mas breaks (quit at the end of 2003) working at Goodyear employed as a General Service Mechanic. This helped pay my way through College. Anyways, when people needed new tires mounted, balanced, etc. that was part of my job.
First of all, if you have problems, I recommend you find a shop that uses a Hunter GSP9700.
Click here and find one near you => http://www.gsp9700.com/
or http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm
or type Hunter GSP9700 into www.google.com
There are many different balancing machines that are in use today. Most shops buy the cheapest, and say have a nice day. This machine costs $$$$ and is worth every penny. I could type about 10 pages of what technology it has to help. But I’ll explain as I go.
Here are some basics:
Tires: The lighter the tire, the easier it is to balance. Michelin tires (includes BFG and other brands made by them) are the best when it comes to balancing. This is because the French need something reliable when they are fleeing a confrontation. j/k, they are the best though. The amount of weight and runout (how close to perfectly round it is) are by far the best when it comes to manufacturers. The worst is obviously biased ply Super Swampers (I never got the chance to balance TrXus, but they appear to be nice and heavy). They are super heavy and usually not really close to round.
Rims: Aluminum is your friend. Aluminum rims usually have no/small amount of runout and are lighter than their steel counterparts. The $40 steel wheel is the worst when it comes to balancing. There is a reason they are $40. They almost always have some kind of wobble to them, and are more egg shaped then round. I am talking fractions of an inch here, not huge measurements. But it is important when you driving 70mph down the freeway. Plus they weigh a ton. They have no standard of tolerances that I can tell, so some wheels end up nice and round, while others look like eggs.
Every tire that is made has a heavy spot in relation to the rest of the tire. They also have a High (or low, depending on how you view it) spot in their circumference. Every rim has a high/low spot in their circumference as well as a heavy spot. It is ideal that these spots line up with each other to essentially cancel themselves out. The heavy spots line themselves up so when rolling the masses are on opposite sides, limits the amount of weight added to the wheel. The high/low spots align themselves to make the tire/wheel assembly become closer to perfectly round.
Here is a simple sketch. The red spot shows the "heavy" spot on each tire or wheel.
The top drawing creates a vibration because all the weight in on one side. The bottom one shows what you want to happen. The weights try to cancel each other out. Same theory applies with high and low spots.
Now here is why I recommend the Hunter machine. It can measure the runout of your rim, and then tell you if your rim is bad and needs to be replaced with one closer to round. It can also do a "Road Force" measurement on your tire and find the heavy spot. With the rim measured for tolerance, and the tire "road Forced" it will tell the operator where to place the tire on the rim to make it as round as possible. This takes all the guesswork out of it. The guess work is when the shop manager says "we had to rotate the tire 90* on the rim." Well, what if 132* is better? This machine will find it. It also measures the force at which the tire pushes back on the machine, simulating a rolling tire on the ground. If there is a defect in the tire, this will find it. Also, some tires just plain suck from the factory. Maybe it was a bad batch; maybe it was a lapse in quality for a day. But some tires are just bad, and the manufacturers will take them back and replace them. The tire maker will refund the shop that sends the tires back. So it’s not like they are losing money. "Road force" will suggest tire replacement for tires like this. So be careful if you order over the internet. I would suggest finding the cheapest price, and get a local shop to match it. No shipping hassles, and you have a place to go if they balance like crap. I think any tire 35" or under, should be able to be balanced to ride fine on a daily driver (TSL SX, Bogger, TSL excluded). Larger tires like 38" and up may need to have tread shaved off to make them round. Some tires just happen to end up better made, and they get put on a wheel that happens to match its flaws. This is what happens most of the time. Sometimes people that just can’t get their tires to balance have an unhappy assembly. Maybe the steel wheels suck, maybe the tire is a defect. Either way, it’s just not working out. That’s why some people with 35” tires and steel wheels are fine, and others with 31” tires and aluminum wheels are screwed. It’s just luck of the draw. Most vibration cases can be solved if they take the time to do it right. On to wheel weights…………
There are also different ways to apply wheel weights. You can use stick-on or hammer-on. Stick-on weights have a tape on the back and are placed behind the spokes of the wheel. Hammer-on go on the inside and outside lip, the most common method. The best way is hammer-on, on the inside and outside lip. For bling wheels, make them put hammer-on, on the inside lip, and stick-on behind the spokes. This is better than only hammer-on, on the inside lip, also known as a "static" balance. Most chains offer lifetime rotate and balance for around $50 for a set of tires. This can often be included for with your initial mounting and balancing charge. So if you're paying for balancing at the start (~$30-$40), why not spend $10-20 more and get lifetime? Ask about it when you get your tires mounted.
I hope that helps someone, and if anyone has any questions, I will try and answer them.
I spent 5 summers and X-mas breaks (quit at the end of 2003) working at Goodyear employed as a General Service Mechanic. This helped pay my way through College. Anyways, when people needed new tires mounted, balanced, etc. that was part of my job.
First of all, if you have problems, I recommend you find a shop that uses a Hunter GSP9700.
Click here and find one near you => http://www.gsp9700.com/
or http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm
or type Hunter GSP9700 into www.google.com
There are many different balancing machines that are in use today. Most shops buy the cheapest, and say have a nice day. This machine costs $$$$ and is worth every penny. I could type about 10 pages of what technology it has to help. But I’ll explain as I go.
Here are some basics:
Tires: The lighter the tire, the easier it is to balance. Michelin tires (includes BFG and other brands made by them) are the best when it comes to balancing. This is because the French need something reliable when they are fleeing a confrontation. j/k, they are the best though. The amount of weight and runout (how close to perfectly round it is) are by far the best when it comes to manufacturers. The worst is obviously biased ply Super Swampers (I never got the chance to balance TrXus, but they appear to be nice and heavy). They are super heavy and usually not really close to round.
Rims: Aluminum is your friend. Aluminum rims usually have no/small amount of runout and are lighter than their steel counterparts. The $40 steel wheel is the worst when it comes to balancing. There is a reason they are $40. They almost always have some kind of wobble to them, and are more egg shaped then round. I am talking fractions of an inch here, not huge measurements. But it is important when you driving 70mph down the freeway. Plus they weigh a ton. They have no standard of tolerances that I can tell, so some wheels end up nice and round, while others look like eggs.
Every tire that is made has a heavy spot in relation to the rest of the tire. They also have a High (or low, depending on how you view it) spot in their circumference. Every rim has a high/low spot in their circumference as well as a heavy spot. It is ideal that these spots line up with each other to essentially cancel themselves out. The heavy spots line themselves up so when rolling the masses are on opposite sides, limits the amount of weight added to the wheel. The high/low spots align themselves to make the tire/wheel assembly become closer to perfectly round.
Here is a simple sketch. The red spot shows the "heavy" spot on each tire or wheel.
The top drawing creates a vibration because all the weight in on one side. The bottom one shows what you want to happen. The weights try to cancel each other out. Same theory applies with high and low spots.
Now here is why I recommend the Hunter machine. It can measure the runout of your rim, and then tell you if your rim is bad and needs to be replaced with one closer to round. It can also do a "Road Force" measurement on your tire and find the heavy spot. With the rim measured for tolerance, and the tire "road Forced" it will tell the operator where to place the tire on the rim to make it as round as possible. This takes all the guesswork out of it. The guess work is when the shop manager says "we had to rotate the tire 90* on the rim." Well, what if 132* is better? This machine will find it. It also measures the force at which the tire pushes back on the machine, simulating a rolling tire on the ground. If there is a defect in the tire, this will find it. Also, some tires just plain suck from the factory. Maybe it was a bad batch; maybe it was a lapse in quality for a day. But some tires are just bad, and the manufacturers will take them back and replace them. The tire maker will refund the shop that sends the tires back. So it’s not like they are losing money. "Road force" will suggest tire replacement for tires like this. So be careful if you order over the internet. I would suggest finding the cheapest price, and get a local shop to match it. No shipping hassles, and you have a place to go if they balance like crap. I think any tire 35" or under, should be able to be balanced to ride fine on a daily driver (TSL SX, Bogger, TSL excluded). Larger tires like 38" and up may need to have tread shaved off to make them round. Some tires just happen to end up better made, and they get put on a wheel that happens to match its flaws. This is what happens most of the time. Sometimes people that just can’t get their tires to balance have an unhappy assembly. Maybe the steel wheels suck, maybe the tire is a defect. Either way, it’s just not working out. That’s why some people with 35” tires and steel wheels are fine, and others with 31” tires and aluminum wheels are screwed. It’s just luck of the draw. Most vibration cases can be solved if they take the time to do it right. On to wheel weights…………
There are also different ways to apply wheel weights. You can use stick-on or hammer-on. Stick-on weights have a tape on the back and are placed behind the spokes of the wheel. Hammer-on go on the inside and outside lip, the most common method. The best way is hammer-on, on the inside and outside lip. For bling wheels, make them put hammer-on, on the inside lip, and stick-on behind the spokes. This is better than only hammer-on, on the inside lip, also known as a "static" balance. Most chains offer lifetime rotate and balance for around $50 for a set of tires. This can often be included for with your initial mounting and balancing charge. So if you're paying for balancing at the start (~$30-$40), why not spend $10-20 more and get lifetime? Ask about it when you get your tires mounted.
I hope that helps someone, and if anyone has any questions, I will try and answer them.
8/12/05 | 11:02 PM
#18
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: July 21, 2004
Posts: 2,924
Likes: 1
From: New Jersey
I had always thought of starting a topic on wheel balancing, but never did it. When I first picked up the car, it had the concepts on it. I also noticed the wheel shake around 60mph. My first trip back to the dealer to pick up some paperwork, I had them rebalance and everything was fine. Can't remember how far out it was, but they did find it was out. Then, I bought a set of bullits from someone here on the site. I did not have them rebalanced and I now have the little shake again. I personally think the wheel balancer at AAI is out of calibration. Too many people have had this issue.
8/14/05 | 08:10 AM
#20
Cobra Member
Joined: October 15, 2004
Posts: 1,020
Likes: 0
I've got the beyonds, 18X9.5 and the kdw's 285 in back 255 in front, had it well over 100 and everywhere in between and have had no shaking or vibration of any sort.
There is quite a bit of road noise over the perelli's but no vibration/shaking.
Sounds like they really goofed on the balancing.
There is quite a bit of road noise over the perelli's but no vibration/shaking.
Sounds like they really goofed on the balancing.