Moroso Catch Can up close
 

I purchased the Moroso Catch Can from Lethal Performance here are some pictures. I'm going to install it in the next month or so as soon as I get a custom AN fitting that is being made for the Kenne Bell blower.

The kit includes...

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/IMG_7198.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/IMG_7193.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...215_resize.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/IMG_7209.jpg

This unit is actually for the Hemi Charger but with a little work it will work fine for the stang. The two side holes use a 3/8 NPT.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/IMG_7199.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/IMG_7201.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/IMG_7205.jpg

I plan to replace the supplied brass hose fittings and go with AN fittings (Mr Gasket/Shadow Series) and a breaded line from Airoquip.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/IMG_7192.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...n/IMG_7212.jpg

More to come after the install stay tuned.

Jed

Looks nice. How big is it? Looks like a couple inches judging by the pic.

It measures 4 1/2 inch high from the nut bottom to the top of the can. Diameter is 3 inches. It's fairly compact it holds at least 4X the volume of my Home Depot thing. Plus it's ez to purge with that valve drain :nice: and don't forget the bling factor! :rofl2:

What is this, an oil separator for the PCV circuit? How much?

Thats nice! What do they cost??

Thanks for sharing as I have been searching for a small, but decent quality catch can and this one meets both those requirements :nice:

Please keep us posted on how the install goes!

This has your name all over it Doug! Looks great Jed :nice:

Looks like UPR's, but smaller - with a drain plug & hose.

You are no help Robert!! The size is definitely right. But with the exit hole being on the side and not on the top, this one probably won't work given the odd location of the inlet on my SC:banghead:

Yes it's an oil separator....



I think it cost me $145.00 for the "kit" a little pricey but it met all of my install and visual requirements. I've been looking for this for maybe a year; I first saw it at SEMA this year. I bought it from Lethal Performance the stock number is 85472.



Jed

Nice pictures, did you use a light box or just a white paper and good lighting?

I did a quick and dirty light setup using a Dyno Lite 1000xr pack and two strobes heads bare bulb. I should have used a couple of soft boxes then the white would of been more pure white. But I was lazy I just bounched light off of my ceiling. My soft boxes are buried under a bunch of car parts. :(

For those looking for one, go with a BKU oil separator. Brett at BKU will custom make it per your mods. It's pretty identical to the ones you can get from Steeda, however he alters the setup for your needs. Plus it looks good for $45.

How do you get in touch Brett @ BKU ?

Are you talking about this unit...>

Dude there is no comparison to the Moroso unit. This is exactly what I'm getting away from a Home Depot style solution. This is just an off the counter part (w/ to many adapters) that is semi effective and leaky at times if you run synthetic oil. Cost effective yes, but effective MEH. If you're motor is blown that's even more reason not to go down this path. I know a lot of people take this route but it's not for me this unit doesn't raise the bar to me as a separator, plus it's FuGly!


http://www3.telus.net/albrecht/oil_s...of_the_box.jpg

I have the Steeda unit and it is basically the same as the BKU , except it doesn't have the fittings to increasing the size for the larger hoses. It does look like the knob on the bottom is metal on the BKU unit , where as the Steeda one is plastic and has already broken so I don't drain it through the bottom. It's the same size as the Steeda one and I empty mine every weekend to keep oil below the filter and that's only a couple of table spoons of oil. Plus the bowl is plastic and I unscrew it to empty the oil so I'm always worrying about breaking it. Also I had to buy a supply of O rings for it since they don't last long with the oil. I've been planning on changing it for some time and I like this Moroso one the best ...

I am looking into these catch cans.. do you need two? one for each valve cover? i get that from these ebay pictures...

Passenger side
http://www.upr-images.com/ENGINE/5032/5032-03.gif
Driver side
http://www.upr-images.com/ENGINE/503...an-install.gif

??

Yes, but no. You cant go buy the parts from home depot, because they are not rated for oil use. Now, I cant speak intelligently on the matter, but trust me if you talk to Brett you will not be disappointed.

I prefer to see how much oil is going into the catch cup, vs guessing, It's simple to drain and has never leaked a drip.

865-366-7532

I believe that's the UPR one. You only need one for the driver's side and make sure it's 5/8ths fittings & hose not the 3/8ths they normally send you.

Gotcha so this would work fine? i guess some people just like serious amouints of bling and some people just go to home depot lol

I like this unit also it just didn't have the drain feature. I would stay clear from the "Home Depot" solution that's just my personal opinion. Whatever you do the thing has to work first and foremost. Second if it can look good than that's a plus.

I've had it on my Whippled GT for a few months now. It's worked fine.

I too suggest staying away from the 'Home Depot' ones.. they hold too little and, from what I've read, often cause more problems then they solve.

You know, you shouldn't be slamming a vendor that you obviously know nothing about. BKU's is not that crap springloaded air compressor water separator made of plastic that sucks the screen into your intake. And while you may like your shiny aluminum can, you can't get a visual nor is it flow tested for your engine specs.

BKU Motorsports is a race shop and Brett has a lifetime history with Ford. These are special made OIL separators designed to withstand higher temps of the engine compartment. He flow tests the unit to meet the cfm specs for the 4.6 3V (and other engines) to maintain the proper flow rates. The petcock is a threaded brass drain with an O ring. And he can set them how however you like depending where you want to mount it for not much money. And ask about the extra service he has provided other members.

http://www.charliehorse.com/BKU%20install%203%20w.JPG

Yeah Jed...got to agree with Charlehorse on this one. I also have the BKU Motorsports oil separator. It does everything as advertised. While I agree it doesn't have the "Bling" factor of your Moroso at least I can see the crap in mine and empty it as needed without taking the whole thing apart to see what I have captured. Just another opinion. And at $60 bucks shipped with exta hose and fittings !!

Someone please post a link to where we can buy this BKU Motorsports setup. Googling "BKU Motorsports" turns up nothing.

Based on the feedback in this thread, the BKU unit seems to be a high quality piece. Speaking from experience, you should definitely stay away from the Home Depot/Northern Tool type units that are actually designed to keep moisture out of air compressor lines. Mine dripped oil out of the bottom onto the headers which really STUNK!

I switched to the UPR oil separator and it works fine. I did add hydraulic hoses because the supplied hoses will collapse under vacuum. All I had to cut the hydraulic hose was a hacksaw, and it was a PITA!

I just run K&N breathers... done. :p

:topic::p

What charlie said. And i posted his phone number on the 1st page. Doesnt get more simple than that. He is now located in tennesse

dude that moroso looks sweet but i can't find it on the lethal performance website

where can i get it installed? I'm in socal as well, thanks.

Well went to home depot, got a husky filter, modified the element a bit to breathe better, sealed up the bottom nipple good. went to napa got some 1/2 fuel line, went to ace got some 1/4 brass fittings.

Filter: 12.00
Fuel hose: 3.00
fittings: 2.00
clamps: 3.00

Total 20 and some change. i have heard nothing but good things about the simple husky filters, anything wrong was due to the installation. this should do the trick as it has for many others simple :)

Well good luck with that WATER separator with 1/4" fittings, its low temp plastic bowl in your engine compartment, and suckable screen filter for your intake. I mean 1/4" - yeah that's about the size of the PVC tube you're replacing right? ;)

There is no screen filter... it's a sintered brass/bronze (w/e it's made out of) cylinder that i drilled holes in facing the output side.

i drilled enough that when i blow through it matches the "freeness" of the stock piece :)

and if you actually look through the stock pvc pipe it's not much larger than my brass pieces at all. havent heard one complaint on the thing and people have been using it for years, you figure one would have melted or something right? lol or broke or w/e

It's a new product so it may not be on there web site. Try calling Lethal Performance directly and tell them you want the Moroso "kit" for the catch can used on the Hemi Charger. The part number I got from Doug at Moroso is 85472. You can install it yourself it's fairly ez with basic skills and a little pre-planning save yourself some dough. If you think this install is more that you want to handle Greg at RET (Racers Edge Tunning) or GTR Performance can install it based on where you live in SoCal RET's in Downey and GTR is in Rancho Cucamunga. The unit is installed on the drivers side of the engine, you can connect it to the cam cover using you stock quick connect that you have already.

Sounds like you're happy with the unit and that's all that's all that really matters. Each person is entitled to an opinion base on their own likes and experiences. This topic of oil separators, catch cans, breathers seems to be a passionate topic on this fourm and just about every other automotive fourm out there. We all have different needs applications, ways of serviceability we want to deal with these system. Luckly the basic principal of the catch can is not rocket science like some believe.

Please elaborate on BKU Motorsports. When you do a web search all you get are Ebay comments. You mentioned a "Race" shop where and what do they specialize in? I did a BBB search and got nothing. "Flow tested to your engine specs" Please...I have some beach front property in Alaska if you're interested (Humor). :D That said I do respect you're choice if your happy with the unit great! I just found some of parts to this tale let's say interesting. :)

Brett and his wife race in the Lighnting series. They moved from FL to TN this summer and I haven't been in contact with them since they moved. We lost several threads on this subject during the TMS crash.

So you don't believe there's an engineered design with the PVC system? Then why aren't both the left and right bank tubes the same size?? Especially with the 4.6 not having an actual PCV but merely an open tube...
From the factory, the 'intake' (passenger side) is very small to allow venting but not allow free backflow of crankcase gasses. The 'outlet' (drivers side) is larger so the flow of gasses is exhausted here back into the intake. If you neck down your separator & lines to 1/4" you don't think you'll be building excess back pressure? You don't think you'll be countering engineered specs?

You really think Brett would make up b.s. to sell a unit for a lousy $50 or 60 bucks - with transmission line? (I paid $45 back in April w/petcock added, w/o trans line, w shipping.) There's not that much margin in it. Once you hold it in your hand you realize its a quality unit. And he bench tests & modifies his units depending on NA or FI to stay within spec. And there's plenty of horror stories from people that didn't buy a properly designed unit.

If you have forced induction, you really should be running a breather/catch can system, and delete the PCV system altogether. There are numerous threads about it here and elsewhere. Blown users will find that no system that feeds back into the intake does the job completely.

If you want to see my breather/can set-up, with a video of air coming out of the breather while the car is idling, see here.

Can you link me to any of these horror stories because all i have read are good things on the internet about cheap home made home depot catch cans, some modified to breath better some left stock (kind of restrictive) i drilled 3 massive holes in my filter facing away from the input so it's just as free flowing as the other side. i can't seem to find any of these horror stories you speak of, it's just a catch can, yes of course it has to flow like stock and mine does at least, if you look at the stock plastic pipe under that fat foam you will see that you will not have a problem running 1/2 fuel hose.

Pics of mine, nice n clean, peeking out from behind my cai shield... and there is how i modified the filter to flow as well as the other side while facing away from the oil spitting in..
http://i47.tinypic.com/2mqu59t.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/zkrcqt.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2h55qvk.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2uqnaet.jpg

so there is my CAI shield rear support lol

As I remember the potential issues were reports of sucking the screen into the intake (some are plastic and melt), the spring loaded drains not making a seal and therefore sucking unfiltered air into the system, too much back pressure causing seals/cam cover gaskets to leak and/or fail, not using oil rated hose and/or using hose that collapses and defeats the crankcase venting.

I saved some of the notes before the site crash where Brett was trying to figure out colby's oil use issues (via long distance). As you can see, the cfm specs are not a trivial matter. There is an engineered rate of flow designed into our 3V's that are not necessarily the same as other engines. Here's a sample:

Seeing some of the questions and comments in other posts, I thought it might help if some of you look at PCV flow in a different manor. First, pressure and flow are two totally different things, and both are very important to the PCV system. As an example I hear a lot of people referring to a specific # InHg of vacuum relative to diagnosing the PCV system. Vacuum is important, and should maintain a close proximity to your intake manifold vacuum, but flow is a volumetric measurement, normally measured in CFM for PCV systems. So lets say you see 22 InHg of vacuum on the high side for your PCV system, that would be within range, but if you saw 22 InHg @ 150 CFM, that would be an extreme amount of over drafting on the crankcase. Likewise, if you saw 22 InHg @ 2 CFM that would not be sufficient flow to evacuate crankcase gases. Normally in most cases an over drafting of the crankcase is present. This is why just about all engines suffer from oil in the induction system. When the engineers are designing the engine packages in most vehicles the only number they are concerned with is the minimum flow rate required to evacuate the crankcase gases. Because of this, they allow for too much flow (CFM) to the PCV system, creating oil issues right from the beginning. This is very easy to understand looking at their primary objective, and that is not emissions, which is what the PCV system was primarily designed for in the beginning. You see, when they increase flow to the PCV system, they evacuate more crankcase gases, which allows for increased service intervals. As you can see with many new cars today, many don't require oil changes until 7500 miles. If you follow the history of the PCV system you’ll see what I mean. Remember when break-in oil changes were recommended, that important 500 mile oil change. Back then a lot of engines were open vented with valve cover breathers, to vent crankcase pressure and oil changes were recommended every 1500-2000 miles depending on driving condition. Then along came open loop PCV systems and push-pull systems, along with better oils, and the change intervals went up again. Now with closed loop PCV systems, and modern oils, some vehicles are on a 10,000 mile change interval.
Never the less this isn't a problem for most, most are dealing with the over drafting issue and oil in your intake, causing detonation issues and plug fowling along with horsepower robbing sludge building in your intakes, plates, burning to your valves causing intake flow issues, etc. Hence the reason we designed our custom separators over 12 years ago with internal regulation to counteract against the over drafting on the crankcase, reducing the oil that actually makes it into the PCV system, and then catching the oil that does in the separator itself. Hopefully this shines a little more light on the PCV system, and possible issues some are having.

ahh i got you bro, seems like more precaution should be taken, im glad there is no screen in mine though and i did loosen up the filter flow so that the pipe that was there flows the same and it does... and my drain it sealed up by modifying the petcock it came with, and i use 1/2 fuel line (wont collapse or break down from oil) if i made my oil seperator system flow the same as the one pipe that was there, what possible problems could i run into? obviously the filter it comes with is useless which is why i drilled massive holes on one side of it.

100 miles, guess it's working well lol

http://i49.tinypic.com/33c7mdf.jpg

Yes, i wish it was from day one though, :(

btw that stuff stinks worse than regular oil it's oil with a little something extra.

These oil seperators have been around for a long time. I have had one on my car for 4 years. Jed, that Moroso unit looks like a really nice piece and it cost me about the same to build my Stef's.

BKU Motorsports contact info
 

Charlie,
It’s good to hear from you again, sorry for the delayed response but I just logged into our eBay account tonight and received your message. It’s been a month or so since I’ve logged on to eBay, we’ve been working hard trying to get everything setup the way I like it at the new location here in Tennessee, I hadn’t remembered to change over the email address on the eBay account until I read your message, so thanks for giving me something else to do! ;) We’ve been so busy with engine orders and getting the new location setup we haven’t been listing on eBay since the move. Seriously, thanks for taking the time to get our contact info out there for other members on the Mustang forums. Actually if you want to pass this info along as well; we’re doing a special purchase offer for all club sites and club forum members who have helped support BKU Motorsports over the years, we are giving 10% OFF and FREE shipping on all; BKU - Oil Separator Kits and BKU - Transmission Valve Bodies, this offer is good until Saturday, December 19, 2009. Just tell everyone to order by 12/19/09 and mention the website or forum they’re calling from and we’ll be happy to give them the special pricing. The best way for everyone to contact us is still the shop number, but they can email us as well if it’s better for them, it’s just easier for us to get all the info we need for the order during the first contact, especially on custom orders!!!
Have a Great Christmas and a Happy New Year!
BKU Motorsports Contact Info:
Main Line=865-366-7532
Email=bku-motorsports@comcast.net
Thanks Again,
Brett Utsinger
President & CEO
BKUMotorsports
Where Performance is a Lifestyle!!!

Smoky Mountains, TN
(865)366-7532

Ray just to clear the air I do believe in a catch can system. I just don't prefer the "Home Depot" style separator. I find the one supplied by Kenne Bell leaky and Fugly and I don't care to clean it every 4 months or so. That’s why I decided to go with the Moroso unit. With FI on our motors you absolutely need a separator/catch can or a breather system. Your selected comment of mine may mislead where I'm coming from. No harm, all this commentary is good and entertaining to say the least. :D

Sweet, nice work! Think I'll put an order in this week...

Had to get the blue kobalt one from lowes lol
http://i49.tinypic.com/2gxjo1u.jpg
**** my pickiness!

There you go no point in spending more than you need to. These things aren't rocket science, I'm still laughing about that comment about having it "flow" tested to your engine. :rofl2:

:popcorn:

The only "flow testing" i have done is make sure it flows just like the stock tube that was there. and it does or better. i can see where maybe restricting it could be a problem but flowing the same as stock, i think i'm all good.. and look at that sucker suck!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB-cKYOlrGs

hahaha you're funny. Don't shoot the messenger, but you sound like one of the 'keyboard techs' Brett refers to. ;)
As far as 'rocket science' goes, yeah my old '83 F150 carb engine isn't so critical. I've kept that thing running for 252k and 26 yrs the old fashioned way - with duct tape and bailin' wire. LOL
But my $30k+ Bullitt? tsss... I'm not gonna play with hokey air compressor crap after all the 'rocket science' Ford engineers put into it. But do what you want to your Mustang.
Here's the entire posts from Brett I saved from 6.09 pre-crash that were from Colby's thread about his excess oil usage after a cam install (great thread with a lot of thinking going on trying to pin it down). Brett was nice enough to take his time to try and help Colby out long distance. Read them or don't, I don't care - my engine's protected. But if you do read through, do you really think Brett's some backyard hack makin' that stuff up?? How many engines have you spec'd out Jed?
Be well.


Excessive Oil In Intake

I rarely chime in on forums, because debating with keyboard Tech's is not my idea of fun, but I told Colby I would try to shine some light on the excessive oil situation, and MOST of you folks seem normal.

After talking with Colby and hearing his amount of oil usage I was astonished at the amount, 3/4 of a quart over 500 miles is huge!!! We deal with issues like this all the time and this was the largest amount I had ever heard of. We do plate installs regularly, "Even though I discourage them most of the time unless the customer is installing cams that warrant them" and we had never seen that amount of oil entering the intake on any install before. When we install plates or remove the butterflies on the factory plates we always see an increase of over drafting on the crankcase through the PCV system, but that's to be expected when you modify the flow of the air charge.

Well apparently Colby was not the only one suffering from this issue. Last week we received a call from a customer in GA, who stated he had read Colby's post and was suffering the same fate, only he was losing a full quart at about 600 miles. He had already taken his GT to two different dealers and two different tuners in GA. After $2600, and no answers except; "That's within specs" NPF!!! from the dealers, and a new tune from each of the tuners and a lovely little plastic UPR Oil Separator, “this is actually just a plastic Catch Can/Expansion Chamber, not a Separator”, he was really looking for help.

After hearing his story, I just had to get my hands on one of these mystery machines so I could diagnose it. After some coaxing he finally agreed to trailer the car the 500 miles so I could take a look at it. So last Friday I finally had my chance, bright and early as pulled up to the shop, there he was, sleeping in his truck, car in tow.

So here are the nuts and bolts. I pulled it in and strapped it on the dyno rollers so I could run the car and put a load on it, to evaluate the Intake and PCV flow under load. Behold as soon as I pulled the PCV line off before I even started the car to load it, oil was running out of the line like crazy. I had to clean the line out before I could even hook my transducer up to measure flow through the PCV system. In 2nd @ 2500 RPM's it was flowing 40% more CFM than my normal base line for a 4.6L 3V. "Those are freakin crazy flow numbers!!!" After I finished mapping the flow of the PCV system and saw a 60% increase at 4500 RPM’s (Mad Flow), I went back and started doing a visual around then engine bay again to see if anything popped as a probable cause since so many hands had been under the hood??? I had already noticed the Red Georgia Clay tint to his K&N, but the appearance was not overly concerning. After considering two dealers and two other shops had all done compression test, leak down test, and even bore scoped all 8 holes, not to mention the over whelming evidence of oil in the PCV system and intake, I was sure all of the oil was entering through the PCV system. I just couldn't except that the delete plates were the source of all of the oil. Basic mods, street tune (I verified it with my own software) Street Cams, it just didn't add up. My only other option was an intake restriction, it had to be from the throttle plate forward because of the location of the vacuum source for the PCV system. The air cleaner element didn't look that bad??? Well it had only been 45 minutes and I had already pinpointed the source of the oil and was limited with options for the cause??? So I pulled the intake tube to inspect the throttle plate and look for a restriction, as I got close to the air cleaner I smelled tranny fluid??? I ask the customer if he knew why his air cleaner smelled like tranny fluid??? He then explained to me that he cleans his K&N with dish soap and water, and then sprays it with tranny fluid to oil it, he stated that it was a lot cheaper than the K&N cleaning kit. I then explained to him that a K&N cleaning kit was cheaper than $2600, because I believed I just found his issue. As soon as I started the car after I removed the air cleaner you could hear the reduced flow in the PCV system. After an induction cleaning, and a thorough cleaning of his K&N, with the proper cleaner and oil, all of the PCV flow rates were perfect.
***Special Note!!! Tranny fluid is not the same as K&N filter oil, and it will cause your filter to clog faster, it almost forms a paste when dirt and dust stick to it on the filter!!!***

Seeing some of the questions and comments in other posts, I thought it might help if some of you look at PCV flow in a different manor. First, pressure and flow are two totally different things, and both are very important to the PCV system. As an example I hear a lot of people referring to a specific # InHg of vacuum relative to diagnosing the PCV system. Vacuum is important, and should maintain a close proximity to your intake manifold vacuum, but flow is a volumetric measurement, normally measured in CFM for PCV systems. So lets say you see 22 InHg of vacuum on the high side for your PCV system, that would be within range, but if you saw 22 InHg @ 150 CFM, that would be an extreme amount of over drafting on the crankcase. Likewise, if you saw 22 InHg @ 2 CFM that would not be sufficient flow to evacuate crankcase gases. Normally in most cases an over drafting of the crankcase is present. This is why just about all engines suffer from oil in the induction system. When the engineers are designing the engine packages in most vehicles the only number they are concerned with is the minimum flow rate required to evacuate the crankcase gases. Because of this, they allow for too much flow (CFM) to the PCV system, creating oil issues right from the beginning. This is very easy to understand looking at their primary objective, and that is not emissions, which is what the PCV system was primarily designed for in the beginning. You see, when they increase flow to the PCV system, they evacuate more crankcase gases, which allows for increased service intervals. As you can see with many new cars today, many don't require oil changes until 7500 miles. If you follow the history of the PCV system you’ll see what I mean. Remember when break-in oil changes were recommended, that important 500 mile oil change. Back then a lot of engines were open vented with valve cover breathers, to vent crankcase pressure and oil changes were recommended every 1500-2000 miles depending on driving condition. Then along came open loop PCV systems and push-pull systems, along with better oils, and the change intervals went up again. Now with closed loop PCV systems, and modern oils, some vehicles are on a 10,000 mile change interval. This is why I always recommend anyone who has deleted their PCV system, stay away from the west coast unless you want a nasty fine and change your oil every 2000 miles. Never the less this isn't a problem for most, most are dealing with the over drafting issue and oil in your intake, causing detonation issues and plug fowling along with horsepower robbing sludge building in your intakes, plates, burning to your valves causing intake flow issues, etc. Hence the reason we designed our custom separators over 12 years ago with internal regulation to counteract against the over drafting on the crankcase, reducing the oil that actually makes it into the PCV system, and then catching the oil that does in the separator itself. Hopefully this shines a little more light on the PCV system, and possible issues some are having.

As a side note, air cleaner issues maybe more common than anyone knows. Saturday I had another customer from central Florida bring his Bullitt by with concerns of increased oil in his separator. Same thing, I popped the hood, saw his dirty air cleaner and had a laugh. It's basic hydrodynamics 101; high areas of pressure are always going to feed to low areas of pressure no matter what, and the path of least resistance will always be followed!!! Simply, if your air cleaner is clogged and restricting flow, the motor still needs to breath, and it will pull air from any source possible, and the only other open source for the intake to pull air from is the PCV system, and if the air filter is clogged, the pressure and the flow will be increased in the PCV system because of the volumetric inefficiency of the PCV system. There is simply not enough volume in the PCV lines to feed the engine as a primary source for induction. Just think about it, it should all be making sense by now!!!

Brett
BKU Motorsports
*****
Let’s see if I can make it through the list of post here…………

Sagacitypony: First, an air filter would have to be so clogged to restrict enough air flow to throw a MIL you would have "SEVERE" drivability issues noticed, the MAFS to TPS variant is extreme on the EEC-V in open and closed loop, this would also start as a soft code and have to be repeated on consecutive drive cycles to trip the MIL, also if the ECU trips the MIL for improper signal voltage from the MAFS, it will default to open loop. Regarding WOT tables, just so everyone understands this, because most people do not, including Techs, yes I just said that!!! At WOT the ECU runs off from an OPEN LOOP strategy, not closed loop. Because of the Ford factory setting, the Adaptive Strategy Learning function on the EEC-V, with its ability to rewrite Open Loop WOT tables, is a risk to the engines own wellbeing (Basically it’s too smart for its own good) because of this most “good” tuners rework the adaptive learning table in the programming to prevent learned corrections from being applied under WOT, or disable Adaptive Learning all together. Since Colby is running a Brenspeed tune, his ECU would not have leaned his WOT tables, that would of have had to been done manually in the tune, I know Brenspeed reworked the adaptive learning table in his tune, they are a reputable tuner. Also, just for your own information, 3 degrees or even less is a common adjustment to correct for WOT detonation (Pinging). With the EEC-V many ECU parameters are logged in real time, including the STFT. Depending on the data-logging system being used, STFT can be reported differently, sometimes as a plus or negative percent (minus STFT meaning the engine is running lean, so the ECU is reducing its calculated A/F ratio in order to get the actual desired A/F ratio), or as a number around 1.00 (STFT numbers less than one, meaning the ECU is correcting a lean condition). As for Adaptive Strategy, if the ECU constantly needs to shorten calculated PW to achieve the desired 14.6 A/F ratio in CL mode, it knows its programming is calculating a PW too long (possibly from erroneous sensor inputs), and it will remember that correction for next time it makes a PW calculation for the same operating conditions of load and rpm. In other words, the ECU actually learns. The remembered corrections are known as Long Term Fuel Trims (LTFT). The LTFT work oppositely to the STFT, i.e., a plus LTFT (or LTFT greater than one) indicates the ECU is adding some to the calculated PW, in order to get the A/F it wants, based on what it's learned in the past. Even though the ECU only knows it's hitting the desired A/F ratio when the A/F ratio is stoichiometric (in CL mode), the ECU can also apply the learned corrections (LTFT) any time the ECU is operating in OL mode, and commanding an A/F ratio other than stoichiometric. Adaptive Strategy allows sensors to age and drift in their readings, but the ECU can now correct for the errors, and still hit the desired A/F ratio in the end. In the real world, adaptive strategy can be a problem. For the EEC-V, corrections learned at one set of operating conditions (e.g., idle) are also applied under other operating conditions (like high-rpm WOT). In that case, if you have a MAF sensor that reads too rich at idle (typical of many aftermarket MAF sensors), a leaned idle correction is learned, which if also applied at WOT, can spell disaster. It's necessary to either rework the adaptive learning table in the tuning to prevent learned corrections from being applied under other operating conditions like WOT or throttle chops, or make certain the MAF sensor calibration is corrected. The least desirable technique is to disable adaptive learning in the tune. This is why I always preach a good dyno tune is the only way to do things properly, that’s why we won’t sell anyone a tune unless they bring us the vehicle for dyno tuning!!! NO MATTER WHAT!!! This has caused problems with several of our ProStreet and Drag Radial Class customers we do engines for around the country. But that’s the only way we do things!

As for Colby’s oil issues; 1. Oil level is dropping at ¾ of a quart every 500 miles – “Confirmed” 2. Excessive oil is entering intake through PCV system – “Confirmed” 3. Engine internals have all checked out properly – “Confirmed” 3. PCV flow is higher than normal for a 4.6L 3V – “Confirmed” 4. Air Filter Element is very dirty – “Confirmed”
Don’t make this so complicated folks, this is not because his air filter is so clogged it would drastically effect drivability or throw a MIL, even though I think he’s going to notice a big difference with a new filter. Think about the facts, not opinions. Let’s say his air cleaner has a 30% restriction, for a base line let’s say he normally flows 750 CFM through his induction system, that means 225 CFM of intake charge is looking for a new source of delivery. Now I’m not saying he his flowing 225 CFM through his PCV system, but who knows, I have seen numbers close to that on force feed induction vehicles with PCV issues. Just take half that number, 112 CFM, which is SEVERLY over drafting the crankcase!!! We already know his PCV system is pulling excessive oil from the crankcase, and the PCV system is flowing considerably more volume than normal, for his application. We saw his valve cover baffle was still in place. The source of the oil is verified, the list is short for things that can affect the amount of volumetric flow on the PCV system.

Colby: just address the issue with that crappy air filter and get a better element, so you can start enjoying your ride again!!!

Scott: I understand your question regarding an increase in fuel mileage. I never expected to hear those kinds of gains either, but results for the 3 valve and 4 valve modular’s are close to what Charlie is reporting. A lot of modular customers are reporting sustained fuel mileage improvements of .7 - 1.2 MPG after cleaning their induction systems and installing our separators on naturally aspirated engines, force fed setups are not getting the same mileage improvements, but that’s understandable. My only theory for this is that the 3 & 4 valve engines benefit more from clean intake ports and plates because of the multi-valves increased intake velocities, along with keeping the multiple valves free of burnt oil deposits. But who cares, it’s a great side effect of running the separator, the separators weren’t designed to increase fuel mileage, it’s a free by product.

Charlie: Keep an eye on your setup, it looked to me like you were getting a little more oil in the separator than normal for your mileage??? How fast is your catch cup filling?

Final note: I have heard from many of you regarding how hard and expensive it has been finding ½” transmission line for the separator installations. Now we are selling the kits complete with all the necessary stainless mounting hardware and transmission line needed for the installation, so it’s a complete kit ready to go. That means no more guys paying $9 a foot for tranny line. I don’t pay to advertise on this forum so I’m not going to pump our products on here, if any of you have any questions give me a call at the shop.
Brett
BKU Motorsports

*****
Look at you guys, double checking on me to see if I’m giving you correct information, you guys are funny. I said Brenspeed turns off adaptive strategies for WOT, but you didn’t believe me, I even said most don’t know this or even truly understand adaptive learning strategies!!! Guys I will never say anything I don’t know to be true, EVER!!! If I say that’s how something is, it’s always because I know it’s factual! I never BS about things I consider important, I do this all day long for a living, so I consider tech info serious stuff. I have an advantage with most of this stuff, I’m pretty up to date with the way most “good” tuners out there write their tunes. I have to be, we do not warranty any long block or short block that is going to be run on a tune that has not had the adaptive learning tables worked or deactivated at WOT (Wide Open Throttle). Like I said before unless you’re pretty close to bone stock, adaptive learning strategies are bad news during WOT!!! There’s no way we can warrant a $10,000 long block with that kind of liability. Without giving any of Brenspeeds proprietary tuning information away, “Because I wouldn’t want anybody giving info away from our tunes, if they had cracked them” Let’s just say in my professional opinion anyone running their tunes will never need to worry about adaptive learning strategies at WOT, they write very safe tunes!!!

Colby: I must have misunderstood you when we talked, I have you running a Brenspeed tune on your build sheet. Never the less, if you’re running a Tillman Speed tune you should still be OK at WOT, unless something has changed in their tuning recently that I’m unaware of, because we warranty engines on Tillman tunes!!! If somebody knows something different, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! Actually “keeping things vague here” Tillman reworks the adaptive learning tables similar to the way I do, they don’t just turn adaptive learning off. You should be safe with their tune as well, remember we're only talking about WOT here as a concern!!!

Charlie: Right on!!! That is exactly what I wanted to hear, that is a completely acceptable amount of oil.

Scott: Call me tomorrow, crazy day is almost over!!! I should be easier to reach tomorrow. It’s been a long time since I’ve build dyno’d 5 engines in one day, I didn’t like it at all, in 2hrs and 20 min I will have been up for 24hrs, I’m getting to old for this no sleep stuff, It’s bad enough when we’re racing, but today was worse, and it was 96 deg. inside the shop today. Thanks for the words of praise, we try man!!! You guys have been great, like I said before I gave up debating keyboard techs long ago, but you guys have all been great to work with and it’s been fun the last few mornings drinking my coffee and responding to you guys, plus my typing needed practice, it’s not what it used to be. The dyno has me spoiled, F1, F5, F8 and drop down menus are great, then click print.

Seriously, you all have been great! I have only been posting on this forum, basically because of Colby’s debacle, but there have been a lot of you passing BKU Motorsports along on other sites, and we appreciate it! Truly we do!!! We have actually had a huge surge of business from you guys, I haven’t seen them posting, so there must be a lot of sand baggers out there, but in the last 3 days we have had 63 separators ordered just for S197’s (Including Bullitts, Thanks Charlie & Mike) It has made me order seps twice this week, just because I was afraid of running out, I order these ZEKS separators direct from Germany and normally I order 50 at a time, now it’s 100 and my hose supplier is freaking out, I’ve ate so much ½” line from him this week he can’t resupply me until Friday. So you guys are really supporting us, it’s not like we’re getting rich on seps but the way my wife tears up race parts every little bit helps. I can’t forget about the 2 long blocks that were ordered, 1 last week and 1 this week, from guys on this forum, both of them heard about us from you guys, so thanks for supporting a small business like us, it’s not getting any easier for us little guys out there, it’s folks like you who make racing and eating possible, and we never forget that. Thanks again to all of you!!!

:sleeping:

Forgive my friend Leo for falling asleep. We're from the breather group who could care less about catch cans and/or oil seperators. :p

We're just here for the entertainment. :rofl2:

Turning it back to you guys.. :popcorn:

:-D :-D

Oh.... nice strawman argument. I don't recall this being about how many engines Jed or hasn't spec'd out or did I miss that ? If Jed isn't making a point of how well versed he is and how much better of an engine builder he is, why bring it up, why even mention it ?

[war & peace]
In a galaxy far away.....




and everyone live happily everafter
[/war & peace]
I read that and no where does it mention that anything was specifically "flow-tested" on his unit or any other with the specific results of the tests. He does mention methodical testing to help out and resolve the issues for Colby. In the "nuts and bolts" section he mentions issues with the air cleaner being one of the biggest issues, although not the only issue. No one can say that he was not complete in his testing, evaluation or resolution, especially in the light that he discovered and or resolved the issue that others were unable to do.

Now saying that, his could very well be superior in every way, but from what I've seen The moroso, stef's.... etc seem to be a better option for FI cars. NO, before I get accused, I do not have specific tests or proof. My proof is from the successful cars built here on the West Coast by RET, ST Motorsports and GTR and their recommendations for catch can separators and going away from the husky/home depot/lowes.... etc type version.

In the end as Jed and Brett themselves have said, it's not rocket-science.
clearly Colby's issue != Jed's or Jed's intention.
He says, right there and it only makes sense that in Colby's case the air filter was a problem and having it clogged with Georgia's finest red clay didn't help Colby's situation. How this relates to Jed's oil separator I haven't the foggiest. Then derail this thread with 783 words related to tune issues, WOT and adaptive strategies is pointless. Keep it on topic

:ohsnap::agree::goodpost:

:nothingtoadd:

:topic:

Hey - I didn't save the entire thread. And as you know TMS didn't either. And I'm not going to bother typing the informational info he sent with his kit. And some of his stuff is proprietary - so no, not all specs are published for some cheeseball to steal his work. Would you? :screwy:

As far as on topic (which I covered in my intro), just thought I'd help the uninformed naysayers read that Brett isn't some shade tree hack. He's a race shop and knows a ton and I appreciate his taking the time. And lots of other folks do too regardless of your opinion.

Carry on.

i'm so lost right now.. but my oil seperator is working great LOL

if i match the flow to the stock piece that was there anyway, how can it go wrong?

dumb it down for me...

================= <---stock hose flowing
=====()=========== <---sotck hose flowing with my seperator w/ no change in restriction.

where is the disaster brewing?

(not bashing brett) just really don't get how this would hurt anything unless you are choking up the flow.

OK, I can understand and appreciate that. I do not expect anyone to release proprietary information on products they have developed and are actively selling, especially as one company *cough*UPR*cough* is known for stealing IP and making Chinese copies. But when it's stated that it's been "flow-tested" there has to be something to back that up, ya know ?


But this peeing contest started because that Jed said that the Moroso-type was a no match to the home-depot styled version. Slamming a vendor or hack are all your terms not Jed's. Jed has stated his preference and that if the home-depot style works for you great. It should have been left alone at that point without the pointless excess. The BKU version will undoubtedly work for many people and it will do everything it was tested and advertised for. In the application that started this thread and with the premise initially indicated it would not. No matter who makes it, how well it flows or if it's made out of titanium... wait... if it was made out of titanium then Jed would probably want it :poke:

Last .02, don't take everything so serious or personal. Not one person here is out to besmirch that particular vendor. Their product does not match the OP's requirements due to design. He's a all haired-over and growed-up he'll live without being rescued :rofl2:

:rofl2:

Wow that post was too long LOL! Sorry I'm with the breather camp, I had a catch can and was still having problems with some blow by, but I'm SCed

Hug it out I3itches.
 

:grouphug:


Breathers FTW!!!!!;)

Don't forget GMS. :ohsnap:





:werd:

After reading this novel along with a ton of other posts, I am done looking for the "right can" set-up that will fit cleanly. I just ordered the 2 K&N filters (3/8in. & 5/8) from Amazon ($37 with free shipping) and will be ordering the CFM filter/oil billet fill cap. Done :D

So all BS aside when's the Catch can going in Jed?

Call Brett yourself... don't talk behind his back.


Uhhh... Jed posted a pic of an air compressor type unit and falsley stated that it was BKU's and I corrected him.

Carry on. You too breather men... :-D

Yeah Brian (AKA Habu). How dare you speak blasphemy about Lord Brett and the great motor sports empire of BKU.:stirpot:

Cydnaco-Don't take life to seriously or you'll never make it out alive.

What makes you think I'm not chuckling :nice:

Hell at least we've got some more action on the forum... still hasn't reached pre-crash levels.

Oh, and as far as the Lord Brett thing...

Besides fellers...

its not whether it protects your engine or not...

its not about flow rates...

its only about how good the can looks!

Did someone say Titanium? :nice:

Top secret testing... :rofl2:it's a "Black" project. :dunno: Little green engineers. :rofl2:

Haha...this thread went where no catch can went before! I should be funny and say I canceled my plans haha NOT! I have all the parts I just need to get off my lazy butt and do it. Some welding maybe involved to mount Moroso's bracket to the vacuum regulator bracket. That’s one option, I need to do some dry fitting first maybe this weekend since it looks like Sat & Sun is going to be a down pour in SoCal. ;)

You youngin's wouldn't remember this but in the old days the crankcase of all internal combustion engines vented to the atmosphere. That nasty stuff in the "now called a PVC line" dripped right down on the blacktop. Them were the days boys!!!!!!:catfight::stirpot::rofl2: Any of the above solutions that keeps that crap off the back side of my valves is acceptable!!;)

Billy Mays? is that you!

I never thought a catch can discussion could get so entertaining!

Hey Jed, did you get that custom -AN fitting you mentioned in your original post here?? If so, post up some pictures.

Welcome to the Budget Breather Club! :metal:





Who said those days are over? :devil:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...l/IMG_3387.jpg

ROFL!

Posthumous of course!

Atta Boy Bill!!!!!:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

yeah... don't post that pic on the climate change thread! :fear:

Yeah "EnviroBill" he ain't!!! And he's in tree hugger territory!!:fear::rofl2:

I think the 4th item from the K&N breather description sums it up...

Product Features:
3/8"Id Flange Cv 2"D 1-1/2"H
Clamps Directly to Metal or Plastic Tubing
Eliminates Factory Breather Hose Betwwen Crankcase and Air Induction Intake Track
Legal ONLY for racing vehicles/Not for use on emission controlled street or highway vehicles
10 Year/ Million Mile Limited Warranty

Correct! CA is the worst state to have performance cars. :bad:




I'll add the breathers to the list of my other non-conforming mods. :rofl2:

Yeah guys......I'm thinking maybe we have found the sole reason for Global warming!!!:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2: It resides in southern California.:stirpot:

That's only when I start my car, which isn't very often. :rofl2:

Now that's what I call 'bench tested to cfm specs'! :heh:

Is this video about Taco Bill or Taco Bell??:catfight::stirpot:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXV8Gd78F7g

Wow it's been a while since I've back in the Catch Can Zone!

Leo / Catch can going on soon a bracket is being made should have it after New Year Eve.:metal:

Cdynaco / Hey I posted a picture that someone else described as a BKU masterpiece. :rofl2:

Doogie / I installed the AN fittings to the back of the Kenne Bell and one in the front off of the cam cover into the KB CAI. The last remaining line is the catch can system which in a week will be done! I'll post a bunch of pictures in case anyone is interested it doing something like this. ;)

So the story continues! BUMP!:devil:

"flow tested" "For engine specs"?? "CFM SPECS"?? some people will buy into anything if it sounds official and "racey" enough.


cant get a visual? because thats something you check before every use right? are you kidding me? dump it when you change your oil.... you do change your own oil right? or do you only trust certified technicians from ford motor company that can properly flow your oil drain for the specs of your motor?

so what oil weight does he "flow" this system with? because once oil is introduced into the system, the air flow rates will change based on the build up of oil on all the internal surfaces. and the orifice that the air flows through. also ambient air temperature changes and at what elevation? because that has major effect on "CFM testing"

designed to withstand engine temperatures? who molds them and did the testing?

i would believe a world famous racing company Moroso, did a little bit of research and development on these before they started producing them......your guy.....doesnt even have a website?

dont be upset you spent $45 on $20 worth of stuff with a fancy pitch line.

AWESOME:rofl2:

my PCV delete
 

I went the way of TacoBill...found a couple crankcase filters and installed and capped the intake...i had been running BKU / UPR setup and still had a little oil getting thru...see pics below...in the video you can see some vapor venting so it does work and the car runs as good or better. I am gonna have my dyno tuner check it out to see if there is any perf changes with this setup. *** I do have a BKU separator, Stefs catch can, and a UPR catch can for sale if anyone is interested, I'll post them in the for sale section soon....thanks****

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPZM6_IaijU

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ilinintake.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ngerside-1.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...riversside.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...reatherson.jpg

Do you smell it on the inside when you get on it?


I've been thinking about drilling and tapping a hole in the top of my UPR can and turning it into a breather catchcan since I get some blow by on the passenger side.

Looks great! :nice:

Yeah I've wondered about that too with open breathers. Nothing worse than to be in 90+degs stuck in traffic smelling that crankcase air thru your A/C... like the old days.

I have stock Valve covers and want to put some breather caps on WHERE can I buy them??? Also, since I am taking off the hose from the intake that connects to the valve cover is it ok to not have anything on the intake???

For the open intake inlets, go to an autoparts store and pick up a 5/8 and 3/8 inch cap as they need to be covered. You will need these 2 K&N filters (62-1320 and 62-1440), which I found the cheapest at Amazon. And if you want the oil filler cap filter, get this one from CFM http://mustang.c-f-m.com/index.asp?P...OD&ProdID=2160

There is a bit of fumes inside the car...not bad but it is there...mainly sitting still. I was concerned about that aspect too...I drove about 60 miles tonight and it didnt come thru the heater air...i think i will put my cowl seal weatherstrip back on and see it that helps...i had it off for some blow thru cooling here in Florida. It may have been the 30 degree temps tonight that was fooling me but the car feels like it runs better now without a PCV system. The Dyno will tell me.

This may sound ridiculous but when you are talking about the intake inlet caps what exactly do they look like? I know I probably sound like an idiot but I want to make sure to do it right???