Granatelli Turbo Install - The Final Outcome!
 

For those of you who were following the first few threads about my turbo install, you know I was having some issues. Ultimately, it turned out to be a problem with the tune not opening up the Charge Motion Plates.

A new tune was emailed to me immediately and I finally was able to meet up again with the tuner this morning for a final tweak and some dyno pulls.

First Pull: Only some minor tweaking to the tune:

434.8 RWHP, 464.1 RWTQ, 6.9 psi, 11.7-11.8 A/F Ratio

Attachment 54894

Second Pull: One turn on the Boost Controller & some fuel added between 3500 and 4000 RPM to soften the rise in the A/F ratio:

475.2 RWHP, 505.6 RWTQ, 10.0 psi, 11.7-11.8 A/F Ratio

Attachment 54895

Wow! Nice numbers man!! Any vids of the car?

Seems like the charge motion deletes have been a problem with tweaking out tunes. I read about Fabers problem with the plates and his cams. Great to hear you got it fixed! Nice numbers!

I forgot my camera when I went to the dyno today. :doh: I'll be taking some vids of the car soon, though.

Well, I still have the plates... they were turned OFF in the tune and staying closed through the entire RPM range!
I've heard of problems, too, with the delete plates. Mostly with plugs fouling. Seems the plates help keep the air turbulent and therefore help keep the plugs clean.

Those numbers are amazing! Nice avatar by the way...

Outstanding Tom!!! How does she feel???

+1 Video needed :)

Thanks! And at least SOMEBODY likes my avatar!!

Feels great! Even better after today's tweaking (and of course with the added 3psi of boost). It does come in nice and smooth and barely any boost is lost during shifting. The best thing is that the tune is still conservative and very safe.

I can drive it all day long as a N/A car, or step on it and GOOOO! :burnout:

Awesome you got this resolved. Thanks for sending the pm update.

I knew it wasn't the WG.

This will teach a few people to double check things people forget about like the charge motion plates.

Kick *** Tom!

That's awesome. Glad you finally got everything worked out. Now all you have to do is change that avatar. :jester:

Awesome numbers Tom...that is one potent pony you have now.:nice: I will go out on a limb here but after everything you have been thru it seems your problem really comes down to human error. Not sure what human deserves to have the finger pointed toward them but I am glad you finally got -r- fixed. And I also like your avatar!!
Scott:nice:

congrats and post some pictures please.

Congrats Tom - Sounds like you got it figured out. I'm still going back and forth - My tuner had the package I was going to buy in the shop the other day(customers car). Liked the packaging but the tune that came with it was junk....so it sounds like it could be the same issue.

It shouldn't be too long before I decide which way I'm going...best of luck...(and I dig the mouse!)

Yep! Turned out to be something simple all along. I didn't know for sure, but was pretty sure it wasn't the WG or BOV... or the turbo itself. Justin at VMP tuning is the first person to ask if the charge motion plates were opening - so I've gotta hand it to him! :hail:

Finally, huh??

Thanks! And you know you love my avatar! Oooooh BOY!

Yep... human error, but a totally honest mistake. No harm, no foul. He made it right in the end and covered the cost of today's re-tune and dyno pulls! :nice:

Thanks! My canned tune that came with the kit opened the plates, but was way, way, way too rich. Good luck with yours... hope you get it figured out!

I don't remember it... could I have lost it in the upgrade? I'll check...

Killer numbers!! I love the way boost kicks in on turbos!!!!!!

Awesome! Congrats on the HP and TQ numbers, I am very envious. And I'm still waiting for my ride.:poke:

Oh yeah, and the MM rat-atar has to go. What's next, big mouse ears on your beautiful white car?:jester:

Awesome!

:nice:

I like the avatar Tom

And you like Mickey and they pay you so its all good.

Congrats as well on sorting out the turbo install. I knew you would get it all sorted out.

You are one of the few here at TMS that are incredibly gifted as a mechanic, problem solver and their attention to detail. I've always trusted your judgment and thought process, its very sound, and well grounded.

Good job, no send me the $20 for saying all that like you promised.......................Just kidding

Thanks again, everybody!

Phil... I made it $40! :rofl2:

Yeah! And you can put Homer on yours! D'oh! :jester:

The one thing that I did notice is that the Boost Controller does help the turbo spool faster.

When I dialed the BC up from 7 psi to 10 psi, there is more boost at any given RPM if you overlay the graphs.

Not much... but I'd be willing to bet that without a BC, boost would be less at any given RPM.

It looks like I'll be getting the car dyno'd again on April 5th on a Dyno Jet.

Will be interesting to see if they are higher compared to the Flow Jet numbers. Since I constantly hear that Flow Jet numbers run low...

Is this a Mustang Dyno Jet or just a Dyno Jet? I hear the Mustang specific Dyno Jet's are very low in there output.

Those are very nice numbers! It's nice to hear everything all worked out for you. :nice:

The graph on page 1 is a Superflow Jet. The one I like to get the car dyno'd on is a Dyno Jet (not a Mustang Dyno). This is the one I have the '89 dyno'd on if you click on the link in my signature for that car's dyno chart.

OK cool I was going to suggest stay away from the Mustang Dyno

Glad you have all that mess behind you . I have followed the whole thing man that takes alot out of you.Are you going to bring it down to Orlando Speed World? If so I want to be there to see what she runs and how she sounds.

whats next? :poke::p

Thanks! I'm glad it's finally all figured out. In the back of my mind I knew it had to be something simple the entire time.

Me backing down the boost to about 8psi so it's a little safer for the street! :rofl2:

(after the Dyno Jet pulls, of course)

Congrats on finally getting it dialed in! :nice:

At 8 psi, I think I'll be able to take you (umm.. after my Vortech gets installed). :jester:

Thanks!

8 psi is like you at 10 psi... since I'm not stealing any of my HP to make HP! :poke:

True.. but I have gears, 1-pc DS, and a real short throw shifter to get the jump on you! :poke: :jester:

:lol:

Congrats Tom, Great numbers:beer:

Psh, I could take both of you N/A!




But seriously, Im glad it all finally worked out for you Tom and Great Numbers- Gotta love turbos!! So besides Jon's inquiry to Whats next, I think the real question is are you happy enough that If you had the chance to do all over again would you?

That's good service

I dont think so......

Not gonna help....

Thanks! Finally what I was looking for!

Yeah, right! :D

Yes... very happy. I would definitely do it all over again. One of the reasons I went turbo is because everybody and their brother has a supercharger at car shows. Very few (if any) have turbochargers. I wanted to be different.

And I seriously have to turn down the boost. There is practically no turbo lag now and the car is just way too fast. I'll leave from a light at only part-throttle and mere seconds later I'm looking in my rear view mirror at cars barely beginning to move.

10-4!

Somebody has to put the Taco in his place! :metal:

This will be my new fuse box cover:

Attachment 55271

Or something along those lines...

Tom, like the tag, simple and to the point.

560HP is at the crank vs XXX@ RWHP Either way its a of incredible HP, installed by you which 98% can't do themselves :hail::hail:

Who's doing the fuse box cover for you Tom?

Tom fuse box? lol

Thanks! 475.2 at the rear wheels. I'm using the standard 15% drivetrain loss for a manual since I still have the 2-piece driveshaft, stock pullies, etc.

475.2 / .85 = 560

Gary Loat... the same guy that has done several of our radiator cover tags to replace the sticker.

Attachment 55351

I had to ask JR for permission to use the Granatelli logo... he gave it to me, which will be a good advertisement for him at car shows!

Ok, thats what I thought you were using. Good deal

Updated Fuse Box Tag:

Attachment 55495

I think this one looks much better...

+1 I agree fully!:nice:

I love the trooper car. I enjoyed going through the album and video clips.

oh...and congrats on that turbo install (but everyone already said that).

Thanks! I'm glad somebody actually used the album link to check out the car.

Boost has been dropped to about 7psi after playing around with the boost controller. After talking to the tuner, no changes need to be made to the tune... whether I run 6 or 10 psi, or anywhere in between...

I think we need some controversy in here to get a new thread going again. :jester:

Turbochargers are better than superchargers. ;)

I prefer VTEC. :poke:

Awesome! Great work man!

trooper, where did you get that cool rad tag made up?Id love one for my GT..

Thanks! Frank

Hope you get some kick-back for every sale you refer. :poke:



Your new tag no longer applies, have to add the words 'capable of..'. :rofl2:

Yeah... that'll happen!

If you want to get picky about it 472.2 /.85=559.:screwy:
Or really picky...
555 HP x 15% loss (remember it is drive train LOSS) =472.2.:confused:
But c'mon whats a few numbers between friends.:jester:

Well, RWHP = 475.2 (on the graph).

BHP with 15% drive train LOSS is estimated at 475.2 divided by .85, which = 559.

560 sounds and looks a lot better. :p

BHP - LOSS = RWHP

559 - LOSS = RWHP

LOSS = (559 x 15%)

559 - (559 x 15%) = 475.2 so it all works out.

OK, you got me... I'm estimating 15.1% drive train loss! :poke:

Actually, now that I think about it... it's capable of more than that! The turbo is capable of 800 HP... maybe I should put THAT on the tag?? :p

It really doesn't mater when you have a TURBO V8 !!!!! :nice::drool:
Personally,(because the average Joe doesn't know squat) when somebody asks me about my car's HP I usually tell them,"On a good cold day it makes 298 RWHP". I then can show them the uncorrected graph (says uncorrected on it) and they can go WOW.
It is 283 HP SAE corrected, but this time of year it really does have 298 and you can feel the difference.

I know, I know... just wanted to back up my 560!

I decided on engine HP numbers for the tag since that's how they always rate cars from the factory... 225 for my '89, Shelby 350, GT-500, Roush 427R... all BHP numbers.

trooper. where did you get that Mustang GT underhood plate made up? Id like to get one too
Thanks Frank

Gary Loat... I'll find his email address and give it to you...

thanks!!!

He has his contact info somewhere on this site, so it's ok to give this to you in public:

Gary Loat

bullitt@telus.net

thanks troop

No problem!

I guess the gauges didn't make the cut for this thread? :jester:

Yea where are they Tom, oh Tom..........................

Consistent management of information amongst all threads is crucial to the proper dissemination of information to all of your followers. Now thats a mouth full isn't it Tom :confused:

And geez Kyle you up way past your bedtime pal, whats up with that? lol

You have no idea Phil...I usually don't go to bed until about 5 (eastern time). :doh:

Yikes thats scary, got the nocturnal thing going there Kyle:rofl2::rofl2:

Wow! That's when they make me get up to go to work now.:banghead:
I think I liked it better when I was on Kyle time.:grin:

Funny but I'm always @ work in my office @ 5:30AM each Monday thru Friday. On the weekends I sleep in until 6:30AM lol

Not a late night guy but I do like to get up early in the morning, go figure.

It gets a bit silly at times. I don't like only have a few hours of daylight to work with every day. It'll have to change soon enough. :screwy:

Here's how the tag turned out:

Attachment 56071 Attachment 56072

Looks good Tom.

Very nice! I like everything you have done, it'll be an attention getter at shows for sure. :nice:

Thanks!

The car got a People's Choice award at the last car show I was at. Tons of 2005+ Mustangs and only 3 awards given in that class... guess the Turbo was definitely an attention getter! Huge show and I didn't see even 1 other turbo there.

Attachment 57055 Attachment 57056

Congrats Tom :nice:. The turbo sure does make it stand out. I don't think I've seen one at a show out here either.

Thanks!

Luckily, they still have a bad reputation, so most people will go with superchargers! :nice:

why did they have a bad rep?

Heat issues, mostly. But not any more. You used to need a "turbo timer" to either keep an oil pump pumping oil through the turbo, or to keep the engine running (I'm not sure which). Now you don't need that any more.

on top of that, alot of older turbo systems had turbo lag. You wouldn't feel the power right when you stomped on the throttle, there would be a delay

I'm pretty sure most modern systems don't have that problem anymore. But as always prejudices of the past outlive their welcome

That is true!

I have some lag, but it's a pretty big turbo (76mm). Boost levels stay up there in between shifts, though.

It's a perfect compromise - 22 MPG if I want to drive it that way, or tons of power if I want or need it.

Yeah I would imagine it would take a larger turbo more time to spool up, but I'm sure you can attest to the fact that with a modern turbo setup even you, with you 76mm, don't have too much lag.

After all, who can complain when they're getting 22mpg with a 475hp motor! I wouldn't mind "compromising" like that at all :grin:

Oh, it's not bad at all. I just wanted to say that some lag still does exist (as does heat). But, as you say, both are no where near as bad as they used to be. Unfortunately, I never have driven an older type turbo set-up to experience what a lot of lag feels like... I'm sure I can imagine, though.

I actually helped the lag by installing a boost controller. It holds pressure on top of the wastegate spring to prevent it from starting to open earlier than it's preset rating of 6psi. Now the boost controller holds it shut until whatever I set it at (10 psi in the chart below).

Obviously, with the spring opening earlier on, it was harder and harder to build boost the higher the RPMs got and the more the spring opened.

Now, boost comes in pretty steady and the boost controller removes pressure from the top of the spring to let it level off:

Attachment 57186

Huh, I never knew anything about boost controllers. And If you're barely feeling any lag at all AFTER the controller install, there must be almost nil in the first place

Sweet deal!

And I have to say it, even though I know you've heard it before from many a man, that is a WHOLE LOTTA POWER :drool:

I never realized how much torque you were putting out. Those numbers look awsome

Thanks!

Update:

I got rid of the boost controller and changed the spring in the wastegate. Now at WOT, the boost gauge ramps up quick!

I also had a muffler welded on the dump pipe coming out of the WG. Now instead of raw exhaust sound coming out of there when the WG opens, it's nice and muffled.

Attachment 59239 Attachment 59240

Going on 7 months with the Turbo installed and about 7000 miles without any problems! And that's with 560 HP / 590 TQ at the flywheel on stock internals and with a stock fuel pump.

Good to hear Tom!

Did you ever get a chance to post some videos?

can you run reg gas with a turbo or is it 92/93octain only??

any one??

Now that I bought a new camera, I'm going to get a sticky pod and take some good videos!