stkdidy

if it is any help, i will send a copy of the before/after A/F ratios to anyone that requests them (through PM)

like stated, the A/F at WOT is just fine, and ~.1-.2 leaner than before bolting on the TB. This is likely the culpret for the added power BUT as i have outlined, leaning it out in a similar fashion during my original dyno tune (on stock TB) did NOT get gains like that.

I know an SCT master tuner through a friend and will go to him within a the month (I'm busy as heck right now) if possible, but if anyone on here is an SCT master tuner in the Los Angeles area that is willing to try to correct the idle rpm problem for free, PLEASE let me know ;-)

one addl. note:
the rpms seem to fall faster now that i have been drivin it a couple days, they stay up high for ~2sec when i take it out of gear now...maybe the computer is fixing itself? or maybe just different temp/humidity conditions or sumn

nonsensez9

even on the stock set up the engine hangs on to the revs when depressing the clutch pedal. And if I'm accelerating hard it will give me a few hundred rpm when I punch the clutch. Don't know why, but it kind of makes power shifting almost redundant.

Anyways... after the install did you disconnect/reconnect the battery, let it idle to operating temp, turn on the A/C for a minute or two, turn it off, let it idle some more, and all that?

Lastly, how lean does the mix have to get before the computer complains.

stkdidy

battery was not disconnected, i will look into that. yes it does hang on to rpms, but because more air flows with less throttle, the problem is compounded slightly. i believe the engine starts hating you when it gets into the mid 13s A/F somewhere. i know just bolting on my JLT without a tune sent "too lean" error code, but not this time

Granatelli

I think dcranford means well but does not understand what everyone is trying to explain to him. One has nothing to do with the other. It sounds like people think the throttle blades are not closing all the way. THEY ARE. However, the air that is bleeding around the t-body is slightly increased do to the larger blades. This really is not an issue. Is creates no safety issues and does not effect driveablity around town or at cruise. As stated when depressing the clutch pedal the car “may� fast idle for a few seconds before the ECU and sets target idle speed. This is caused by the “if then� idle strategy factory pre set in the computer.

The ECU has a preset TPS angle that it looks for to set target idle speed. Therefore every time a manual car depresses the clutch pedal the ECU looks at the TPS and yes YEP I AM THERE SET IDLE AT “X�. The problem is more air is passing the blades then the ECU thinks so “THEN� the ECU lower the idle back to target. Simply put “IF� the car idles too high “THEN� the ECU lowers it. This may take a few seconds.

Dcanford – Idle adjustment has nothing to do with wide open throttle calibrations

Granatelli

Again this is another preset table in the ECU within the target idle speed. The ECU looks at vehicle speed as well. Otherwise when you depress the clutch the car would immediately go back to idle and when you let the clutch out it would lunge. This is the reason the auto trans guys do not experience the issue, the torque converter equalizes this

70MACH1OWNER

I have been following this thread very closely. I have read all of the other threads about other TB's and the debate about do they or don't they make any additional power on a stock or very close to stock setup. But I keep reading the same thing ABOUT ALL OF THE AFTERMARKET THROTTLE BODIES. After their installation they have other issues. RPM hanging on shifts. Idling too fast. Slow to return to idle rpm, etc. I guess where I am going with this is.... If you are going to sell me a true bolt on gadget. Then include the special tune that is required to eliminate the issues CREATED by your gadget!! As a consumer of mods for the 05/06 Stang I want something that performs as advertised. No where in any of the aftermarket TB'S advertisments do I see where I need a SPECIAL TUNE to eliminate the issues created by your TB. This is not an attack on Granatelli. This goes to all of the guys trying to sell us larger TB'S!! Fix it or forget it!!!
Scott

Granatelli

That is like selling a 200 cold air and then you tell the customer he needs a 400 programmer. Our device does not present a problem via a SES light or anything else. It only fast idles on a select few manuals and never on an automatic trans car. I have it on my car (man trans) and I have never had an issue. Regardless all I have heard is the car idles fast for a few seconds before it goes back where it belongs

70MACH1OWNER

JR. I am not attacking your TB. I am very interested in them as a bolt on for enhanced performance. You are new to this board and you may want to do a search on TB's and read all of the information available before making statements that may bite you. I have an automatic myself and am glad to hear that the issues I have pointed out do not seem exist on auto's. As for as your statement about the CAI manufacturers you may want to visit their websites because I think you will find that all of the top 5 state that they require a tune and sell packages with the tuner. Using your words. Maybe you should only sell the tune to A SELECT FEW MANUALS. Again, I am not attacking your product. But call it as it is, please.
Scott

Granatelli

I hear you and I am not implying in anyway that you are attacking me. If you purchase a cold air and get a check engine light then you NEED the tune. Our product does not create any such issues. Plus there are over 1000 billet t-bodies out there now and perhaps 5% have stated the fast idle and non have complained it caused anymore then a slight annoyance I am cool if you are. Soory if you read the post wrong

Punch Line - NO SES light and no extra tune REQUIRED

thump_rrr

Have you tried driving a factory stock early production 05?

They have no SES light turning on and the throttle lag is bad enough that in my opinion an aftermarket tune is required.

I'm in no way implying that this is the case with JRs' throttlebody.

Granatelli

Based on the success of our proven 62mm twin blade throttle bodies. We have developed a unit for the 05/06 V6 engines. I need a car with manual transmission to test the part on. If someone is willing to drive to Oxnard CA and let us test the part (while you wait) we will given them one when it is done.

Please call JR or Morgan at 805-486-6644

dcranford

Granatelli, you keep saying they are 62MM TB, but your site says they are 65MM , which is it 62MM or 65MM just wondering which it is?

Granatelli

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dcranford @ February 2, 2006, 4:15 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Granatelli, you keep saying they are 62MM TB, but your site says they are 65MM , which is it 62MM or 65MM just wondering which it is?
[/b][/quote]


We offer both - which would you like? The 65mm requires that you modify the factory manifold

GIG4FUN

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dcranford @ February 2, 2006, 6:15 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Granatelli, you keep saying they are 62MM TB, but your site says they are 65MM , which is it 62MM or 65MM just wondering which it is?
[/b][/quote]

You know...I was thinking the Cobra's had the option of either one but his site shows a differnt size in the long description... My BET is 62MM. Ultimatley it is his Question to answer for us. I have seen it asked a lot in this thread and it still goes unanswered....

dcranford

granetelli so have you been testing the 65MM in these tests or the 62MM ?

Also what kind of mods need to be done to the manifold for the 65MM?

luckyeod28

I'm gonna bet it was the 62mm because there were no manifold modifications.

Cleveland

so yeah, Im still not "impressed". It would be hard for you to prove that the tune to the before and after TB bolt-on was ideal and allowed for full power at a safe A/F. Till the end of days I will believe that all TB dyno/tunes are fudged. Its not like it hasnt been done before....BBR

-Dan

RRRoamer

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cleveland @ February 2, 2006, 10:00 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
so yeah, Im still not "impressed". It would be hard for you to prove that the tune to the before and after TB bolt-on was ideal and allowed for full power at a safe A/F. Till the end of days I will believe that all TB dyno/tunes are fudged. Its not like it hasnt been done before....BBR

-Dan
[/b][/quote]

Dan,

This is kind of pig headed, isn't it? Geoff has the before (multiple runs) and after dyno graphs. He was there. He has the seat of the pants butt dyno in agreement. The thing had a JLT AND tune before and after. You can LOOK at the bloody A/F for yourself on the graphs. Plus, other tuners have chipped in and said that the very small change in A/F before/after would make no difference in power. And to top it all off, the actual power increase is pretty much in line with what would be expected based on the intake manifold vacuum at WOT with the stock TB (from previous tests).

official_style

this TB looks exactly the same as the LFP one i have on my car. when i first put it on, i had the high idle problem. i fixed this by adjusting the screw that stops the blades when they are closed. it is VERY finicky, you have to get it just right. when it is set correctly, it works pretty much perfectly. once in a while, it will hang onto revs for a second or 2. when my car was tuned, i had the deceleration timer set to either 0 or 1 seconds, so i can slow down without the brakes, like a normal stick car is supposed to do. this also made the revs fall much faster when letting off the gas. i am very happy with the TB, and i think it will make a bigger difference once i get my blower on. it made a huge difference with throttle response, i can match rev downshifts perfectly now, which was impossible with the stock tb and stock tune. put the TB on, and have a tuner who knows what they are doing, like mustang magic do ur tune. BTW, mine was tuned with a sniper. hope this helps!!

celticstanger

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RRRoamer @ February 3, 2006, 10:01 AM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
Dan,

This is kind of pig headed, isn't it? Geoff has the before (multiple runs) and after dyno graphs. He was there. He has the seat of the pants butt dyno in agreement. The thing had a JLT AND tune before and after. You can LOOK at the bloody A/F for yourself on the graphs. Plus, other tuners have chipped in and said that the very small change in A/F before/after would make no difference in power. And to top it all off, the actual power increase is pretty much in line with what would be expected based on the intake manifold vacuum at WOT with the stock TB (from previous tests).
[/b][/quote]
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen.gif[/img]

Come on! Dan posts the dumbest stuff just to start flame wars. He's prolly got a TB on his car already, and lovin' it! [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumb.gif[/img]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(70MACH1OWNER @ January 31, 2006, 5:25 PM) Quoted post</div><div class='quotemain'>
I have been following this thread very closely. I have read all of the other threads about other TB's and the debate about do they or don't they make any additional power on a stock or very close to stock setup. But I keep reading the same thing ABOUT ALL OF THE AFTERMARKET THROTTLE BODIES. After their installation they have other issues. RPM hanging on shifts. Idling too fast. Slow to return to idle rpm, etc. I guess where I am going with this is.... If you are going to sell me a true bolt on gadget. Then include the special tune that is required to eliminate the issues CREATED by your gadget!! As a consumer of mods for the 05/06 Stang I want something that performs as advertised. No where in any of the aftermarket TB'S advertisments do I see where I need a SPECIAL TUNE to eliminate the issues created by your TB. This is not an attack on Granatelli. This goes to all of the guys trying to sell us larger TB'S!! Fix it or forget it!!!
Scott [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smilies23.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
I had the same issue with LFP's tb when I installed it. It seemed to go away after about a week, so I'm not sure if the computer 'learned' to adjust for it. Bottom line, NO TUNE REQUIRED, so you get a 10hp mod for a couple hundred bucks, without the "...oh, yeah, and we also recommend a $400 handheld tuner...".

(btw, I have an auto, so some hang DOES occur in autos - not an opinion, I experienced it)