Good day, Bad day...
10/28/05, 08:46 PM
#1
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First the good news...
Hey all, Yesterday was my dyno day at JDM, and it went great. Better than I expected. I need to thank the JDM crew first and foremost. The JDM crew mad me feel at home, and answered all the annoying tech questions I may have had. Their attention to detail in their work sets this group apart. They had a busy day with MM&FF there testing a few items
and I was grateful they were still able to take me in and during their after hours.
Worth every penny having their majic on this ride.
I will post my graphs and a small write up this weekend for those interested.
Bad news...
Tonight the weather was good, and at last minute, I made the 70 mile trip to Cecil Country Dragway in MD. It was about time this "virgin" made her first run down the 1320.
Well...it didnt work out quite the way I expected it. It was a packed crowd, many weedwacker cars puttin' around and makin more noise than anything.
After some cleanup on the track, one lane was solo for a few, and of course the Roush was one of those cars. Well...everyone saw it happen, maybe someone from here was there this evening. I Did a small dry burnout, nothing big, just spun them for a few moments to heat up the KD's.
I Pre-staged, activated the nitrous, pulled up and staged. Didnt launch hard at all ~2k or so, car initally bit, but right around 3-3.5k the tires went up in smoke, shifted into second, and spun as well through the gear and clutch started to smell at this point. Short shifted into third and the car decided to go sideways and the clutch decided to go to the floor. No clutch at all. It smoked slightly and slipped terribly. The clutch could not hold the torque its making down low on the juice. About mid track, I thougtht I lost the driveshaft, I had no clutch in any gear, just coasted until the 1000' ft mark, and the clutch came back.
Clutch drove home fine, no issues, and grabs like before.
So now with under 7k on the odometer, looks like I will need to look into the clutch sooner rather than later.
I read alot here, and have read many threads on aftermarket clutches. Anyone care to throw some recommendations out to me?
Last but not least...The main issue is having over 490lbs of TQ starting at ~ 3k with the JDM nitrous tune (thanks again JDM, I blame u lol j/k
). This stock clutch wont hold this power. Luckily I didnt bring the ET streets...it could have been worse. 
Hey all, Yesterday was my dyno day at JDM, and it went great. Better than I expected. I need to thank the JDM crew first and foremost. The JDM crew mad me feel at home, and answered all the annoying tech questions I may have had. Their attention to detail in their work sets this group apart. They had a busy day with MM&FF there testing a few items
and I was grateful they were still able to take me in and during their after hours.Worth every penny having their majic on this ride.
I will post my graphs and a small write up this weekend for those interested.
Bad news...
Tonight the weather was good, and at last minute, I made the 70 mile trip to Cecil Country Dragway in MD. It was about time this "virgin" made her first run down the 1320.
Well...it didnt work out quite the way I expected it. It was a packed crowd, many weedwacker cars puttin' around and makin more noise than anything.
After some cleanup on the track, one lane was solo for a few, and of course the Roush was one of those cars. Well...everyone saw it happen, maybe someone from here was there this evening. I Did a small dry burnout, nothing big, just spun them for a few moments to heat up the KD's.
I Pre-staged, activated the nitrous, pulled up and staged. Didnt launch hard at all ~2k or so, car initally bit, but right around 3-3.5k the tires went up in smoke, shifted into second, and spun as well through the gear and clutch started to smell at this point. Short shifted into third and the car decided to go sideways and the clutch decided to go to the floor. No clutch at all. It smoked slightly and slipped terribly. The clutch could not hold the torque its making down low on the juice. About mid track, I thougtht I lost the driveshaft, I had no clutch in any gear, just coasted until the 1000' ft mark, and the clutch came back.
Clutch drove home fine, no issues, and grabs like before.
So now with under 7k on the odometer, looks like I will need to look into the clutch sooner rather than later.
I read alot here, and have read many threads on aftermarket clutches. Anyone care to throw some recommendations out to me?
Last but not least...The main issue is having over 490lbs of TQ starting at ~ 3k with the JDM nitrous tune (thanks again JDM, I blame u lol j/k
). This stock clutch wont hold this power. Luckily I didnt bring the ET streets...it could have been worse.
10/28/05, 08:53 PM
#2
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Not to knock you but it seems strange.Are you sure the car did not go into limp home mode?I put down over 460FTlbs of tourque on the dyno with the N20 and at the track i leave at 5000 with my Sticky MT ET biasplies.I am up to over 30 runs with the N20 and stock clutch is right there.i do get the smell you are talking about but still holds fine.
10/28/05, 09:07 PM
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Hey mike,no knocking bro, I need your input. It definetly was no safe mode activating, I thought that at first, or course.
And of course I recalled your numbers and others, and was baffled at this as well. But the clutch went to "mush"
Engine ran fine until the clutch came back.I was able to free rev, but no clutch. Fail safe is out the window, I wish it were that.
I didnt even shut her off Mike, I simply pulled down the return road, ignored my slip and right out of the parking lot and came home. On the highway ran fine, dropped her into 3rd from ~80, barked the 275 and took off like normal.
It held great on the dyno, back to back to back runs, but not tonight on the track.
And of course I recalled your numbers and others, and was baffled at this as well. But the clutch went to "mush"
Engine ran fine until the clutch came back.I was able to free rev, but no clutch. Fail safe is out the window, I wish it were that.
I didnt even shut her off Mike, I simply pulled down the return road, ignored my slip and right out of the parking lot and came home.
On the highway ran fine, dropped her into 3rd from ~80, barked the 275 and took off like normal. It held great on the dyno, back to back to back runs, but not tonight on the track.
10/29/05, 11:17 AM
#5
Originally posted by 05STG1@October 29, 2005, 8:59 AM
I think I may have found my issue...
I think I may have found my issue...
11/1/05, 06:21 AM
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Yea, sorry about that...long weekend.
Shake Down at E-Town was this past weekend, it was a good event, if anyone was there. Way too many T&T cars though...too packed. Not to mention flooded with imports...Bahhh
Im surprised no ones suspected the glazing of the flywheel.
It was my zex kit, the WOT is actually activating at just past halfway on the pedal. Too early, and that with the addition of slipping the clutch during launch caused a huge amount of heat, and glazed the flywheel. So with a 125 shot, and slipping the clutch is a big no-no .
I cant expect the clutch to hold that power if it's full clamping load isnt applied. It heated up bad and real quick, and during second, it lost all clamping force and gave up, not coming back until ~1000` ft mark.
So, had I been on my ET streets, this probably would not have hapended. I Would have been able to dump the clutch and go..
Zex will go to a momentary switch for now, until I look into the zex early activation further. On the street, the early activation is OK, but not good.
Im not sure if many are interested, but thery were many views here, a one reply, so an update was in order for those interested in what happened.
Im planning on doing a 4R70W swap over the winter. I have one here, and might as well put it to use. Im going to bullet proof the tranny first in my case, then the motor when that arrises.
Its a big swap, but doable. And with the 4R70W, I will be able to have full control over the Lockup,line pressure, TCC, shift points, yada..yada..yada.
The choice for controls will either the Baumanator, the TCI TCU piece, or the Power Train Control Solutions trans controller. The tranny will have its own software, much better IMO, control from a laptop. This with the Racer Pac from SCT, I'll be in heaven.
So...if anyone wants to help and knows of anyone that has done this swap, or in the process of, please pass on the information.
The 4R70W is physically larger than the 5R55S, so well see how it fits. Worse comes to worse, (this sounds nuts) My chassis guy said it would be a simple job to replace the tunnel if need be, and of course a custom crossmember as well.
Thats the plan
Shake Down at E-Town was this past weekend, it was a good event, if anyone was there. Way too many T&T cars though...too packed. Not to mention flooded with imports...Bahhh
Im surprised no ones suspected the glazing of the flywheel.
It was my zex kit, the WOT is actually activating at just past halfway on the pedal. Too early, and that with the addition of slipping the clutch during launch caused a huge amount of heat, and glazed the flywheel. So with a 125 shot, and slipping the clutch is a big no-no .
I cant expect the clutch to hold that power if it's full clamping load isnt applied. It heated up bad and real quick, and during second, it lost all clamping force and gave up, not coming back until ~1000` ft mark.
So, had I been on my ET streets, this probably would not have hapended. I Would have been able to dump the clutch and go..
Zex will go to a momentary switch for now, until I look into the zex early activation further. On the street, the early activation is OK, but not good.
Im not sure if many are interested, but thery were many views here, a one reply, so an update was in order for those interested in what happened.
Im planning on doing a 4R70W swap over the winter. I have one here, and might as well put it to use. Im going to bullet proof the tranny first in my case, then the motor when that arrises.
Its a big swap, but doable. And with the 4R70W, I will be able to have full control over the Lockup,line pressure, TCC, shift points, yada..yada..yada.
The choice for controls will either the Baumanator, the TCI TCU piece, or the Power Train Control Solutions trans controller. The tranny will have its own software, much better IMO, control from a laptop. This with the Racer Pac from SCT, I'll be in heaven.
So...if anyone wants to help and knows of anyone that has done this swap, or in the process of, please pass on the information.
The 4R70W is physically larger than the 5R55S, so well see how it fits. Worse comes to worse, (this sounds nuts) My chassis guy said it would be a simple job to replace the tunnel if need be, and of course a custom crossmember as well.
Thats the plan
11/1/05, 04:01 PM
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While I'm not interested in Nitrous for my car (at least not yet anyways), I'm certainly interested in everyone's experiences, and I'm very glad you posted about what happened and then what caused it.
When you say "slipping" the clutch, do you mean that is when you have it partially engaged and you're revving the engine? For instance, I was trying to make a right turn onto a busy street and the incline at the intersection was remarkably steep. I kinda crept up it (since I couldn't jump into the traffic) and ended up smelling a funky burnt smell after doing that. It's certainly not something I usually do, but I couldn't figure out how else to creep up to the road without jumping out into traffic. So I take it that's a "bad" thing... and is there some better way to do it in a situation where you're having to creep up a slope from a stop? (I've been driving a stick for maybe 4 years, but it was an S10 before this, where creeping isn't very hard)
When you say "slipping" the clutch, do you mean that is when you have it partially engaged and you're revving the engine? For instance, I was trying to make a right turn onto a busy street and the incline at the intersection was remarkably steep. I kinda crept up it (since I couldn't jump into the traffic) and ended up smelling a funky burnt smell after doing that. It's certainly not something I usually do, but I couldn't figure out how else to creep up to the road without jumping out into traffic. So I take it that's a "bad" thing... and is there some better way to do it in a situation where you're having to creep up a slope from a stop? (I've been driving a stick for maybe 4 years, but it was an S10 before this, where creeping isn't very hard
)
11/1/05, 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by 05STG1@October 28, 2005, 9:10 PM
Hey mike,no knocking bro, I need your input. It definetly was no safe mode activating, I thought that at first, or course.
And of course I recalled your numbers and others, and was baffled at this as well. But the clutch went to "mush"
Engine ran fine until the clutch came back.I was able to free rev, but no clutch. Fail safe is out the window, I wish it were that.
I didnt even shut her off Mike, I simply pulled down the return road, ignored my slip and right out of the parking lot and came home. On the highway ran fine, dropped her into 3rd from ~80, barked the 275 and took off like normal.
It held great on the dyno, back to back to back runs, but not tonight on the track.
Hey mike,no knocking bro, I need your input. It definetly was no safe mode activating, I thought that at first, or course.
And of course I recalled your numbers and others, and was baffled at this as well. But the clutch went to "mush"
Engine ran fine until the clutch came back.I was able to free rev, but no clutch. Fail safe is out the window, I wish it were that.
I didnt even shut her off Mike, I simply pulled down the return road, ignored my slip and right out of the parking lot and came home.
On the highway ran fine, dropped her into 3rd from ~80, barked the 275 and took off like normal. It held great on the dyno, back to back to back runs, but not tonight on the track.
It definately smells bad lately and new I was on borowed time with the factory clutch.Heat is definatley your issue.Just like overheating the brakes and loosing them untill cool.
11/1/05, 06:30 PM
#9
Thanks for the update. I'm another who isn't really interested in nitrous for my car, but still like seeing what these babies are capable of. Well that and you guys are figuring out all of the weak links for us!
11/1/05, 06:50 PM
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on tires other than stickies, you have to slip the clutch quite a bit to keep from breaking the tires loose-especially with nitrous. Going to the track 2 times a week min., my clutch lasted from Dec.- Mar. Borrowed time on the clutch with anything other then stickies!
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