mlgstang

just wondering what type of guages the N/A guys are running and what mods you have. I have been thinking about some gauges but not really sure what I want. mods are in my sig, I think nothing is really needed but I wouldnt mind wideband air fuel gauge. Probably a dual A Plr pod, but not sure what else might be usefull to fill the second spot. Fuel pressure maybe?? but probably not needed with stock fuel pump.

any thoughts? or should I just save my money.

don_w

Personally, I'd say save your money. But, if you do decide to go with a AFR, then for a 2nd you might want to consider water temp. The stock water temp needle is pretty much useless. It stays in the middle regardless of whether water temp is 180 or 230.

Lowe!

You could get one of the scan gauges that monitor dozens of things from the OBD port, as well as accept input from a wideband O2 sensor. Then you could pull up whatever info you wanted.

281GT

I have oil pressure, coolant temp, voltage and wide band A/F gauges.
The factory oil, water and volt gauges are catastrophe indicators only and give are designed to read approx mid range regardless of actual values. You could have a bearing slowly deteriorating and you'd never see it on the stock oil gauge until it was too late. Same for temp. The stock temp gauge reads a little under half regardless of what the actual temp is. You could be running 30 degrees hotter then usual and you'd never see it until it started burning oil because it ran so hot that the tension was reduced on the piston rings from the excessive temperature. I had this happen to another car I had but because the idiot light wasn't designed to come on unless there was a really severe overheat condition. A good temperature gauge would have revealed the problem long before it messed up the piston rings.
So in my opinion the water temp and oil pressure gauges are a must. They will provide you with plenty of warning before any real damage occurs.
A good WIDE BAND (the narrow band units are useless) AFR gauge is also a must if you are running any sort of mods that might effect the air fuel ratio. Again, your A/F ratio could be off enough to be causing damage but the car might still run and drive perfectly fine. You won't know until you have a burned valve. The AFR gauge is also a great tuning tool.
Bottom line is regardless of what the gauges may cost they are always cheaper than an engine.

Import-Slaya

I have oil pressure, coolant temp. and oil temp. If I could only have two, it would be oil pressure and coolant temp. over anything else.

mlgstang

thanks for the opinions guys.

also I will ask this stupid question,
why is the narrow band A/F useless, i have heard this before not sure I completely understand why I should use a wide band.
thanks

281GT

An O2 sensor requires a stable temperature to read A/F ratios beyond a certain range. Exhaust temperature varies a LOT during normal driving. There can be a difference of several hundred degrees of exhaust temperature between an idling engine and one that is operating at wide open throttle.
Since the O2 sensor can't work over such wide ranges, the wide band units have a built in heater to stabilize the sensor. This will provide the gauge with a much more stable and usable signal.
The narrow band units display readings that can fluctuate widly because during normal driving the exhaust temps are constantly moving higher than or lower than the range that the sensor operates correctly.
About the only time the narrow band gauges are of any use is when the vehicle is driven at a constant speed under low load. They are ok for tuning for best, steady cruise fuel economy and that's about it.
For real tuning you need the accuracy and temperature range that a wide band o2 sensor provides.

mlgstang

so does a wideband require a new O2 sensor or does do the wideband gauges come with everything you need to install.
How difficult is the install?
any recommendations for what brand wideband to buy?

281GT

All air fuel ratio gauges come with an o2 sensor that is designed to work with that particular brand and model of gauge.
The toughest part of the instalation will be mounting the sensor in the exahaust system. It will be neccesary to cut a small hole about 5/8" diameter and then a bung must be welded in to an exhaust pipe. Make sure the tip of the sensor points at a slight angle downwards so that when the engine is shut off any condensation that may form inside will run off the tip of the sensor. They can be damaged by moisture.
Also if you are running cats the o2 sensor must be installed before the cats to get the most accurate readings possible. Generally the o2 sensor should be mounted as close as possible to an exhaust port. In the case of long tube headers you can mount the sensor in one of the collectors which is what I did and my gauge works well.
The instructions that come with the gauge will show all of this in great detail. Any exhaust shop will be able to do this for you.

I have an Autometer part # 3378. It has a digital readout which for air fuel ratio which I prefer because it's hard to tell at a glance with an analogue gauge the difference between for example a 12.8 and a 13:1 AFR but with the digital readout it's easy.
For coolant temp and oil pressure the opposite is true. At a glance you know that if the needle is roughly pointing in the right area you are ok but for accurate tuning the digital readout is more precise.

mlgstang

Thanks for all your help 281GT...
it is much appreciated

mlgstang

sorry, one more question.
can the new wideband O2 sensor just replace the current one that is already on my exhaust system, or is a new location required?

281GT

Yes, your vehicle's computer needs the stock o2 sensor to work properly as it uses input from it to adjust the air fuel ratio. The o2 sensor for the gauge is seperate and operates in it's own location and has it's own seperate wiring completely independant of the vehicle's factory system. I was able to install the o2 sensor in one of the collectors of my long tube headers right beside the factory o2 sensor.

mlgstang

thanks again 281GT

AndrewM

omg wow dad i jus was in here and i seen ur name...haha weird...

Lowe!

So do the programable scan gauges, that use the ODBII port, give you more exact information than the stock dash gauge cluster? Or are the stock sending units only good for detecting, as you say, "catastrophic failure"?

281GT

I can't speak for the programmable scan gauges you mentioned but I can speak for the factory stuff. The stock oil sending unit isn't even capable of measuring pressure. I metered mine with a volt / ohm meter and all it does close a set of contacts in the prescence of any amount of oil pressure over a certain point. It's either full ON or full OFF. The stock temperature gauge sender is a linear sender that reads actual changes in the temperature BUT the stock temperature gauge is driven by the computer and the computer uses the range of temperature readings from the sender ONLY to make changes to engine operating parameters and NOT to drive the signal that operates the gauge. The computer only tells the gauge to read a little under half as long as the engine temperature is below or above a certain point. If the engine is cold it will read lower then this, if the engine reaches a severe overheat condition the gauge will go full scale and turn red. Anything in between the gauge only reads just under half. It will read exactly the same if the engine is operating at 170 degrees or 230 degrees.
Now here's the stupid part and we can thank the idiots of the world for this one.
Ford built it this way because too many customers complained about fluctuating oil pressure and coolant temperatures. So Ford desgined the gauges to read the same all the time unless something reall really bad happens. It's pretty sad, but that's what happened. Ford responded to the idiots of the world. In my opinion the Mustang is an enthusast's car. It should have gauges that work properly but I guess it's just as well as I think a windsheild pillar mounted gauge pod with some good aftermarket gauges not only enhances the interior appearence of the car but good aftermarket gauges are more accurate than anything that could be provided from the factory that would stay within Mustang's price range.

mlgstang

sorry guys, one more stupid question.
i was looking at electrical oil pressure gauge and it says it comes with an electric sender that is matched for the specific gauge.
what does the electric sender actually install to on the vehicle?

GRAYPNY

I have a N/A with the IUP lite interior and just purchased a Saleen dual gauge pod that I won on Ebay. I am going with the autometer electric water temp #3337 and the oil pressure #3327 for the pod. Black faces with white numbers and a red sweep hand. Green lighting will match my OEM gauges.

281GT

You need to install the oil pressure sender on a place in the engine where there is a threaded hole that leads to an oil passage. What I did was I removed the stock sender and got a brass T-fitting. I screwed the T-fitting into the engine block and the stock sender into one side and the sender for the aftermarket gauge into the other side.
You will find the stock oil sender just behind the oil filter on the driver's side of the block. (assuming you have a GT)
You must keep the stock sender in place as simply removing it will be interpreted by the computer as a zero oil pressure situation. Some people have just connected one side of the stock oil sender electrical plug to ground to simulate the signal that the stock sender provides in the presence of oil pressure however I decided not to do this. The reason I wanted to keep the stock setup working is because in the even of a complete loss of oil pressure you are more likely to notice the stock gauge turning red and going full scale more readily than you would notice your aftermarket gauge dropping to zero.

mlgstang

sorry, not to repeat or just rephrase what you said but I want to make sure I understand.

I can either replace the stock sender with new and then just ground the stock sensor or buy a fitting to house both senders.

if i choose the first option, replace and ground the stock sender, what can do to mount it someplace so it is not just hanging? just zip tie someplace?

again, thanks 281GT, you have been a great help. I plan to tackle this on saturday and just want to make sure i have a clue going into this.