Comp Cams Question?
4/25/07, 08:48 PM
#21
4/25/07, 09:21 PM
#22
4/25/07, 09:27 PM
#23
4/26/07, 12:41 AM
#25
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Yeah that's a video of my car with the comp stage 4's at stock idle. When the idle gets turned done it should lope even harder.
4/26/07, 04:47 AM
#27
Yeah, it's steep and a 1/3 the cost of a supercharger+install, but I'm an old school motor guy. He's assisting and getting the experience with 4.6l cam swaps, and after this we do my '97.
My guess is that I'll have the car dynoed tomorrow or Monday, depending on progress today.
FWIW, the install instructions have been posted here: http://www.mustangforums.com/m_3101503/tm.htm
John
4/26/07, 07:48 AM
#28
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Though the instructions have been posted on how to swap out these cams I still do not recommend that anyone who has not done a mod motor cam swap or have quite a bit of knowledge about cams attempt to do the swap themselves. I could not have done it myself without the help of my friend who had built quite a few mod motors. There is a lot of room for error in doing this swap and things can go wrong. This is absolutely not just a simple bolt on. If you're doing comp 1's or 2' and not changing out the springs then it's not so bad.
4/26/07, 08:03 AM
#29
Though the instructions have been posted on how to swap out these cams I still do not recommend that anyone who has not done a mod motor cam swap or have quite a bit of knowledge about cams attempt to do the swap themselves. I could not have done it myself without the help of my friend who had built quite a few mod motors. There is a lot of room for error in doing this swap and things can go wrong. This is absolutely not just a simple bolt on. If you're doing comp 1's or 2' and not changing out the springs then it's not so bad.
John
4/26/07, 09:01 AM
#30
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John I completely agree, and was not directing my post about doing it yourself towards you. I have just had people asking me about doing it in their driveways and whatnot and for the most part don't really seem to know what they are getting themselves into. One guy emailed me asking what the next step was after pulling the spark plugs and taking off the cam covers. I told him if he didn't already know then his next step should be to put the cam covers back on and the plugs back in and find someone who knows what they are doing. I'm not saying a novice "mechanic" can't do this, however I would highly recommend having someone who knows what they're doing and at least one helper.
4/26/07, 09:25 AM
#31
John I completely agree, and was not directing my post about doing it yourself towards you. I have just had people asking me about doing it in their driveways and whatnot and for the most part don't really seem to know what they are getting themselves into. One guy emailed me asking what the next step was after pulling the spark plugs and taking off the cam covers. I told him if he didn't already know then his next step should be to put the cam covers back on and the plugs back in and find someone who knows what they are doing. I'm not saying a novice "mechanic" can't do this, however I would highly recommend having someone who knows what they're doing and at least one helper.
LOL!
Oh heck, no offense taken whatsoever. These forums are great tools for getting feedback both good and bad. Your advice and that of others regarding "not for the faint of heart" was clearly heard, that's why it's sitting in a shop and I'm incurring a hefty install fee. Worth it to me, as it's getting done right.
Anyhow, I'm eager to get the car back and tuned, then hitting the track and marking progress. Then I'll open up the '97 and pull those spark plugs and cam covers and give you a call...(you have no idea how that cracked me up!).
John
4/26/07, 10:05 AM
#32
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I'm mostly going to say this for my own benefit, to rationalize staying on my path of N/A supremacy (certainly not to refute what tom281 has said).
Realisticly a intercooled screw type blower or even a trubo set up, is gonna run more than $3,200. So the $1,600 cam + install price is more like a 1/3 or maybe even 1/4 of the price of a blower in my mind. ESPECIALLY once you factor in installation costs for the blower and accessories to complete the job. A new Saleen blower is $5,000 alone, just for the hardware.
One plan I was looking at, which I hope my save me some labor cost, is to get a new set of P&P'd heads (Livernois stage 3), w/ oversized valves, then install the new cams/springs/retainers while the heads are OFF of the car. I expect this will eliminate many of the install issues, costs, time it takes for a cam install alone. Of course then there is the cost (time and/or $$) for a head swap. But if you plan to swap heads with a blower anyway, then this cost is the same for both routes.
Realisticly a intercooled screw type blower or even a trubo set up, is gonna run more than $3,200. So the $1,600 cam + install price is more like a 1/3 or maybe even 1/4 of the price of a blower in my mind. ESPECIALLY once you factor in installation costs for the blower and accessories to complete the job. A new Saleen blower is $5,000 alone, just for the hardware.
One plan I was looking at, which I hope my save me some labor cost, is to get a new set of P&P'd heads (Livernois stage 3), w/ oversized valves, then install the new cams/springs/retainers while the heads are OFF of the car. I expect this will eliminate many of the install issues, costs, time it takes for a cam install alone. Of course then there is the cost (time and/or $$) for a head swap. But if you plan to swap heads with a blower anyway, then this cost is the same for both routes.
Here is a good goal you could make. First,start with:
C&L Racer with Brenspeed Tune
Flowmasters
UDP's
Steeda CMDP's
ARH LT's with Catted X or H-Pipe
Those mods hopefully will yield you 310-320rwhp
Next add:
Stage 3 Comp Cams
Now you should be at 340-350rwhp
Then:
Livernois Stage 3 P&P Cylinder Heads
Now you should have 375-380rwhp
To bump it to maybe 390-400rwhp, get:GT500 TB with Spacer
Aluminum Driveshaft
Fast Intake Manifold (whenever it comes out)
4/26/07, 10:18 AM
#33
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Yeah, thanks. I'm about 1/2 way there now! ARH LT and catted H on order along with CMCV DPs. Once I install it, then I make a dyno run and let you know where I am.Heads and cams won't be until 2008.
Don't think the driveshaft will net anything on a dyno, other than getting to the redline quicker, but little to no increase in final #s.
And I don't think anything over 375 rwhp is possible N/A. But listen to me, 350-375 rwhp n/a ?!? that's a pretty amazing # for this little 281!!
4/26/07, 11:29 AM
#34
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Well here is a guy that made 367rwhp(equals 431 FLYWHEEL HP!!!!!)Check out new times! some advice needed
His mods are: lakewood lowers, rear wing delete, front swaybar delete, spare and jack (out), steeda ultralite springs, hurst shifter, motive 3:90 gear, bbk tuned shorty headers, off road x-pipe with flowmaster after axle mufflers, k&n mass air cold air, 93 oct pred tune, FRPP charge motion plates, stg. 3 comp cams, and livernois stg. 2 ported cylinder heads
His mods are: lakewood lowers, rear wing delete, front swaybar delete, spare and jack (out), steeda ultralite springs, hurst shifter, motive 3:90 gear, bbk tuned shorty headers, off road x-pipe with flowmaster after axle mufflers, k&n mass air cold air, 93 oct pred tune, FRPP charge motion plates, stg. 3 comp cams, and livernois stg. 2 ported cylinder heads
4/26/07, 11:59 AM
#36
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Well that looks to be about the limit. He has every bolt on (except I didn't see UDPs) + cams and heads and is below 375 rwhp. My goal was just 350 rwhp n/a, but looks like I might be able to bump it up to 375!!
This has got to be the highest rwhp I've seen out of a N/A 281. Good game to that guy!! Maybe this time next year I can boast similar #s.
This has got to be the highest rwhp I've seen out of a N/A 281. Good game to that guy!! Maybe this time next year I can boast similar #s.
4/26/07, 11:59 AM
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4/26/07, 12:44 PM
#38
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Well that looks to be about the limit. He has every bolt on (except I didn't see UDPs) + cams and heads and is below 375 rwhp. My goal was just 350 rwhp n/a, but looks like I might be able to bump it up to 375!!
This has got to be the highest rwhp I've seen out of a N/A 281. Good game to that guy!! Maybe this time next year I can boast similar #s.
This has got to be the highest rwhp I've seen out of a N/A 281. Good game to that guy!! Maybe this time next year I can boast similar #s.
Well also, he doesn't have longtubes(he has shorties), c&l racer(he only has k&n cai),and he doesn't have livernois stg. 3's which give the most gains cause 1mm oversize valves.( he has stg. 2's)
OH THIS OTHER GUY ON MODULARFORDS FROM JDM RUNS 11'S WITH A N/A STROKER MOTOR,FULL BOLT ONS,AND PORTED HEADS. 353RWHP!!!! heres the link:11.97 @ 113.5....Thanky you Evan Smith - ModularFords.com
4/26/07, 12:52 PM
#39
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jeezz...amazing. Isn't it something that we could potential increase RWHP by 100hp w/o raising compression, or adding boost, or other high stress mods (other than upping RPMs)!?!?!
cool.
cool.