CAI and Tune
1/6/12, 11:31 AM
#21
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Wow... Never new the Steeda CAI caused so much pressure maybe that's where the 8+ hp comes from.. LOL Just busting your chops TJ... it was starting to sound like a used car lot in here. One thing you have to take into account is his enthusiasm about his product.
Both these guys stand behind their products and that is great. You can't go wrong with any of these choices. Remember anyone can quote numbers, which are subject to many factors.... the calibration, manufacture of the equipment used to get those numbers. Weather conditions as well as many other factors.
The only way to get accurate numbers is to test them all on the same car with the exact same climate and dyno.
Both these guys stand behind their products and that is great. You can't go wrong with any of these choices. Remember anyone can quote numbers, which are subject to many factors.... the calibration, manufacture of the equipment used to get those numbers. Weather conditions as well as many other factors.
The only way to get accurate numbers is to test them all on the same car with the exact same climate and dyno.
1/6/12, 02:24 PM
#22
No offense to AM BAMA or Steeda but I take all HP gain numbers with a grain of salt with CAIs. Way too many variables to make less than favorable conditions in the 'real world' to make your average user get the HP gains that are found on DYNO testing. I am sure whatever CAI and tune you choose will be a good choice if you stick to the major brands and a good mail order tuner.
1/8/12, 05:11 AM
#26
Mach 1 Member
Don't Believe The Hype
I think before one looks to put in power adders you should SERIOUSLY consider what your goals with the car are going to be!!! If you don't seriously ponder that then your s197 will surely turn into a money pit that will never subside. I personally have the 110mm JLT that just came out last year. I'm sure I got a nominal gain from adding it but the biggest improvement was seriously in getting the tuner! Oh and regardless of the Bama free tunes for life, you won't get the same gains from going through an actual DYNO Tune. You don't even need to go that route until you start to step into compression ratios, cams and (or) forced induction because it's a nominal gain for a steep price. This brings me to another question, are you going to stay naturally aspirated or go forced induction (turbo or supercharged), street racing, track, or drag racing?
These are serious things to think through before power adders. You can throw on a "RAM AIR" intake and a generic tune to be just about as equal as a rice burning tuner like we have all over the city here in my town. But when you step into learning the ins and outs of your car you can get caught up into a lot of sales hype and the aftermarket parts that are worth billions of dollars annually. BTW, the cold air intakes you see online are actually "Ram Air Intakes". There are absolutely no true "cold air" intakes that I have found yet on the market for the S197 model. The term is more of a sales gimmick than anything else when purchasing a "ram air" that is branded as a "cold air".
I personally will end up junking (probably selling it actually) my JLT intake that I forked out about $250+ or so for in a year or less most likely. That was a pretty decent sum of money for a maximum of 2 years of use if it even makes it that long The reason being is because I will be investing in a 67 or 71mm turbo and I suggest that if you can save up the cash, GET A TURBO or SUPERCHARGER eventually!
But seriously, you also need to look at other components such as suspension parts etc. The handling on these cars isn't exactly the greatest in the world in a factory stock setting with power adders thrown on. If you are going to drop in power adders and you start mashing on the gas, you are liable to end up in an accident in a very very quick amount of time depending on your driving skill. Take it from someone who ended up doing a 1080 on a freeway here in town after being walked by a 7 Series BMW at crazy speeds. This was with my JLT Intake, 92 race tune, and aftermarket mufflers only! My first mod after getting the car last summer was the SCT3 Tuner and I started having more fun with the car than I ever had before even though I had only owned it for just over 2 months at this point! I still have a blast driving my S197 with the JLT Intake and Tuner but I began reaching a much much higher state of euphoria when I overhauled the suspension to marry the power adders. With this in mind, it is exactly why I have racked up 14,000 miles in less than a full year of ownership!!!
Because I plan to go forced induction, the Bama Tunes and intake will end up meaning squat in the long run because Bama clearly states that they will NOT write custom tunes for you when going forced induction. I mean absolutely no discredit to them whatsoever because that is a huge liability and requires very hands on and personable tuning to a cars requirements including what climate it drives in potentially 365 days per year. Also, look at independent research compared to a sales gimmick or plug when deciding on an intake. You won't end up personally sifting and testing out 20 CAI's to custom pick your personal choice of which works better for your application. Your end result should ALWAYS be at the forefront of your investment. Also bear in mind that the ram air intake that is being marketed was tested in a very very controlled environment and I'm sure Steeda has plenty of wins with their ram-air but they also invest heavily in the racing circuit to (get this!) sell more parts to the consumer that is "you". Steeds is headquartered out of FL. I believe (on my phone and not able to check), hey what would be the performance difference between their testing a Ram Air Intake in FL. or CA. compared to the crazy cold and bitter rainy fall and winter months of the Pacific NW where I live???? Could be night and day or possibly not, who knows?
Also remember that Ford engineered your air box to run in harmony and unison with your engine, I would personally advise you to grab the SCT3 tuner and start dropping in suspension mods. An extra 30hp and nominal torque gains will be awesome, but exactly what do you think will happen if you're running those on a 4100lb car instead of a 4600lb factory stock car???? Your HP to weight ratio is a HUGE thing to ponder when contemplating power adders. Do you want to go in straight lines for drag racing or take the car to a local track for some track day events that will also help your everyday driving skill and abilities? Maybe you just want to whoop on BMW, Honda, Mercedes, or whatever is being driven in your local town?
Personally I think you have to remember that companies make tons of parts that may or may not benefit your car after bolting them into your car. If you don't buy their marketing to invest in their products they go out of business plain and simple. Also remember too that they design their parts to work in unison with other parts from "their company". So if you go Steeda for your intake you might also get the lowering springs, Adj UCA, Panhard, LCA relocation brackets, rims, LCA's etc. You may have no need for all of those items but then again you just might in the end result. Personally I firmly believe that Steeda can't hold up to a performance company such as GRIGGS but that's just my take on their suspension parts only. I also don't have $15,000 or so to invest in a GRIGGS system but if I did have the disposable income, I would be investing in it.. Of course that is only after I get another daily driver and attempt to turn pro-racer in my S197.
American Muscle and Bama are the bees knees for customer service though, that's why I've spent a small fortune in ordering stuff through them. I will say that the only time I have tried to go through the Bama custom tunes I was given a seemingly generic tune to load on my S197 that I did so accordingly after I got my ram-air intake. Unfortunately the tune had my car running sooooo rich immediately after loading the tune that it absolutely wreaked of gas when I got out of the drivers seat and the car would NOT stay idling whatsoever. It would turnover, idle for about 20 seconds, and then die. Unfortunately this happened on a Friday evening right after I received the JLT Intake and I couldnt contact Bama for an updated file because they were closed until the following monday! Luckily for me I had a mechanic buddy locally who hopped over and re-calibrated the 93 Race Tune selecting all of the options for my S197 from within the tuner itself and he had my car back up and running in 20 minutes! Had my friend not been local to help me out I would have probably been sol until the following Monday, but my 07 GT is my primary vehicle so I literally would have had NOWHERE else to turn. I think the personal tunes are kind of generic as well that are hand selected from a menu of drop down options they reprogram every time your purchase a new performance adder. If the car has problems with the tune they select different options to get the tune perfected to your wants and needs. This doesn't mean the vehicle is operating within peak efficiency and performance, it's just that it made you happy and is tweaked enough for you to stay that way. The only "true" way to get your car running at peak performance when adding mods is to Dyno tune it! But unless you have someone who will give you a steel of a discounted programming rate each and every time you add something to your motor, it won't truly be cost effective to go to them constantly which is why a company like Bama exists and makes a decent sum of money programming the semi-generic tunes. Remember that SCT3 tuner comes in really handy down the road (unless your performance shop choice only uses Diablo), especially if you go beyond naturally aspirated. Now if you were to alter the stock compression ratio, I don't think Bama supports that but then again, I could be wrong? *shrug*
I know you are really itching want to pull the trigger and get going down the road quicker but remember that your car wasn't rolled out from the factory to handle the additional HP beyond factory specs. This includes the stock torque and throttle response as well! Don't end up becoming a red spot on the highway because of adding a ton of uncontrolled power, oh and around here the kids loooove to drive boosted four bangers. I sometimes roll with a group of ricers and one of the kids in the group is running a 1988 240sx with 16lbs of boost on a 70 trim turbo! With his 400rwhp, he walks my V8 Mustang every single time!! My GT jumps off of the line on him right out of the gate but once his car hooks to the ground he not only walks me at 100+mph, he shoots off like a freaking rocket!!! There will probably be four banger drivers in your area who may or may not beat up on you depending on if and how much boost they are running. After investing heavily into modifications for my S197 I will advise you to look at ALL of the aspects of your car and make a game plan, don't just keep dumping money into your car just because it makes you go faster for the sake of going faster. Stick to the plan and make every investment in your car a hurdle you're crossing to reach your end goal.
These are serious things to think through before power adders. You can throw on a "RAM AIR" intake and a generic tune to be just about as equal as a rice burning tuner like we have all over the city here in my town. But when you step into learning the ins and outs of your car you can get caught up into a lot of sales hype and the aftermarket parts that are worth billions of dollars annually. BTW, the cold air intakes you see online are actually "Ram Air Intakes". There are absolutely no true "cold air" intakes that I have found yet on the market for the S197 model. The term is more of a sales gimmick than anything else when purchasing a "ram air" that is branded as a "cold air".
I personally will end up junking (probably selling it actually) my JLT intake that I forked out about $250+ or so for in a year or less most likely. That was a pretty decent sum of money for a maximum of 2 years of use if it even makes it that long The reason being is because I will be investing in a 67 or 71mm turbo and I suggest that if you can save up the cash, GET A TURBO or SUPERCHARGER eventually!
But seriously, you also need to look at other components such as suspension parts etc. The handling on these cars isn't exactly the greatest in the world in a factory stock setting with power adders thrown on. If you are going to drop in power adders and you start mashing on the gas, you are liable to end up in an accident in a very very quick amount of time depending on your driving skill. Take it from someone who ended up doing a 1080 on a freeway here in town after being walked by a 7 Series BMW at crazy speeds. This was with my JLT Intake, 92 race tune, and aftermarket mufflers only! My first mod after getting the car last summer was the SCT3 Tuner and I started having more fun with the car than I ever had before even though I had only owned it for just over 2 months at this point! I still have a blast driving my S197 with the JLT Intake and Tuner but I began reaching a much much higher state of euphoria when I overhauled the suspension to marry the power adders. With this in mind, it is exactly why I have racked up 14,000 miles in less than a full year of ownership!!!
Because I plan to go forced induction, the Bama Tunes and intake will end up meaning squat in the long run because Bama clearly states that they will NOT write custom tunes for you when going forced induction. I mean absolutely no discredit to them whatsoever because that is a huge liability and requires very hands on and personable tuning to a cars requirements including what climate it drives in potentially 365 days per year. Also, look at independent research compared to a sales gimmick or plug when deciding on an intake. You won't end up personally sifting and testing out 20 CAI's to custom pick your personal choice of which works better for your application. Your end result should ALWAYS be at the forefront of your investment. Also bear in mind that the ram air intake that is being marketed was tested in a very very controlled environment and I'm sure Steeda has plenty of wins with their ram-air but they also invest heavily in the racing circuit to (get this!) sell more parts to the consumer that is "you". Steeds is headquartered out of FL. I believe (on my phone and not able to check), hey what would be the performance difference between their testing a Ram Air Intake in FL. or CA. compared to the crazy cold and bitter rainy fall and winter months of the Pacific NW where I live???? Could be night and day or possibly not, who knows?
Also remember that Ford engineered your air box to run in harmony and unison with your engine, I would personally advise you to grab the SCT3 tuner and start dropping in suspension mods. An extra 30hp and nominal torque gains will be awesome, but exactly what do you think will happen if you're running those on a 4100lb car instead of a 4600lb factory stock car???? Your HP to weight ratio is a HUGE thing to ponder when contemplating power adders. Do you want to go in straight lines for drag racing or take the car to a local track for some track day events that will also help your everyday driving skill and abilities? Maybe you just want to whoop on BMW, Honda, Mercedes, or whatever is being driven in your local town?
Personally I think you have to remember that companies make tons of parts that may or may not benefit your car after bolting them into your car. If you don't buy their marketing to invest in their products they go out of business plain and simple. Also remember too that they design their parts to work in unison with other parts from "their company". So if you go Steeda for your intake you might also get the lowering springs, Adj UCA, Panhard, LCA relocation brackets, rims, LCA's etc. You may have no need for all of those items but then again you just might in the end result. Personally I firmly believe that Steeda can't hold up to a performance company such as GRIGGS but that's just my take on their suspension parts only. I also don't have $15,000 or so to invest in a GRIGGS system but if I did have the disposable income, I would be investing in it.. Of course that is only after I get another daily driver and attempt to turn pro-racer in my S197.
American Muscle and Bama are the bees knees for customer service though, that's why I've spent a small fortune in ordering stuff through them. I will say that the only time I have tried to go through the Bama custom tunes I was given a seemingly generic tune to load on my S197 that I did so accordingly after I got my ram-air intake. Unfortunately the tune had my car running sooooo rich immediately after loading the tune that it absolutely wreaked of gas when I got out of the drivers seat and the car would NOT stay idling whatsoever. It would turnover, idle for about 20 seconds, and then die. Unfortunately this happened on a Friday evening right after I received the JLT Intake and I couldnt contact Bama for an updated file because they were closed until the following monday! Luckily for me I had a mechanic buddy locally who hopped over and re-calibrated the 93 Race Tune selecting all of the options for my S197 from within the tuner itself and he had my car back up and running in 20 minutes! Had my friend not been local to help me out I would have probably been sol until the following Monday, but my 07 GT is my primary vehicle so I literally would have had NOWHERE else to turn. I think the personal tunes are kind of generic as well that are hand selected from a menu of drop down options they reprogram every time your purchase a new performance adder. If the car has problems with the tune they select different options to get the tune perfected to your wants and needs. This doesn't mean the vehicle is operating within peak efficiency and performance, it's just that it made you happy and is tweaked enough for you to stay that way. The only "true" way to get your car running at peak performance when adding mods is to Dyno tune it! But unless you have someone who will give you a steel of a discounted programming rate each and every time you add something to your motor, it won't truly be cost effective to go to them constantly which is why a company like Bama exists and makes a decent sum of money programming the semi-generic tunes. Remember that SCT3 tuner comes in really handy down the road (unless your performance shop choice only uses Diablo), especially if you go beyond naturally aspirated. Now if you were to alter the stock compression ratio, I don't think Bama supports that but then again, I could be wrong? *shrug*
I know you are really itching want to pull the trigger and get going down the road quicker but remember that your car wasn't rolled out from the factory to handle the additional HP beyond factory specs. This includes the stock torque and throttle response as well! Don't end up becoming a red spot on the highway because of adding a ton of uncontrolled power, oh and around here the kids loooove to drive boosted four bangers. I sometimes roll with a group of ricers and one of the kids in the group is running a 1988 240sx with 16lbs of boost on a 70 trim turbo! With his 400rwhp, he walks my V8 Mustang every single time!! My GT jumps off of the line on him right out of the gate but once his car hooks to the ground he not only walks me at 100+mph, he shoots off like a freaking rocket!!! There will probably be four banger drivers in your area who may or may not beat up on you depending on if and how much boost they are running. After investing heavily into modifications for my S197 I will advise you to look at ALL of the aspects of your car and make a game plan, don't just keep dumping money into your car just because it makes you go faster for the sake of going faster. Stick to the plan and make every investment in your car a hurdle you're crossing to reach your end goal.
1/8/12, 10:16 AM
#27
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Join Date: September 16, 2011
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A lot of good information Pete!! I bought my 08 gt a couple months ago an I'm still learning a lot about these cars an how much can be modded an improved. First mod I bought was an axle back exhaust an then recently I got the sct tuner. What a difference that made an that's without a cold air or ram air lol(actually never heard of that before). But curious as you kept mentioning how important handling is with all this added power, which I couldn't agree more. What's the point in having 400+ if you can't handle it. But you said you were looking towards forced induction later on. What kind of suspension mods do you have to do for such significant increase in HP? I mean I look at the Shelby gt500 an its crazy with upper 500hp(not sure actual number), how those cars maintain traction and handling. I know tires play a big role but to me that's insane. With just my bama tune I felt a dip in traction with taking off an going for 1st to 2nd if I really step into it. Then again I live in Maryland so its not warm out either for good traction. Just some thoughts.
1/8/12, 11:17 AM
#28
Pete is correct about not being true cold air... Funny how in the import world a ram air is $100-175 and a true cold air is $200-500 (I enjoy all sporty type cars except any GM product lol) however I will never own a true cai for a daily agian! Due water hazard and a pia when trying to change filters!
I prefer suspension first then performance due to seeing better results in a race... If I were to race a guy w all bolt-ons and I was running stock motor but w full Suspension and aluminum drive shaft, fly wheel and upgraded clutch 9 times out of 10 my car would out run the bolt on guy (basing that off of real races I have seen) I could b wrong tho...
Off topic a little bit... It seems the gt 500 lacks suspension when compared to it's baby brother the Shelby GT (has ford racing handling pack I believe) if that is true why is that? The Shelby GT is lowered from factory w k springs and the gt 500 has stiffer springs than a regular gt just because they weight more... Kinda weird
I prefer suspension first then performance due to seeing better results in a race... If I were to race a guy w all bolt-ons and I was running stock motor but w full Suspension and aluminum drive shaft, fly wheel and upgraded clutch 9 times out of 10 my car would out run the bolt on guy (basing that off of real races I have seen) I could b wrong tho...
Off topic a little bit... It seems the gt 500 lacks suspension when compared to it's baby brother the Shelby GT (has ford racing handling pack I believe) if that is true why is that? The Shelby GT is lowered from factory w k springs and the gt 500 has stiffer springs than a regular gt just because they weight more... Kinda weird
1/8/12, 05:02 PM
#29
Mach 1 Member
What kind of suspension mods do you have to do for such significant increase in HP? I mean I look at the Shelby gt500 an its crazy with upper 500hp(not sure actual number), how those cars maintain traction and handling. I know tires play a big role but to me that's insane. With just my bama tune I felt a dip in traction with taking off an going for 1st to 2nd if I really step into it. Then again I live in Maryland so its not warm out either for good traction. Just some thoughts.
I personally have replaced the LCA's. UCA, Panhard (all steel and adj), c&c plates, and the car came with the eibach sportline springs and I replaced the factory swaybars. I have a buddy of mine who owns an 88 GT hatch and proclaims that my car is no longer a Mustang anymore because it handles much much better than factory. I also am curious as to exactly how many people know the curb weight of their vehicle? Not many do but I can tell you mine is approximately 3,450lbs on a scale but I believe it's more like 3,338 or so (i'm putting the car on weight watchers I swear!) so I take that into consideration when looking at future suspension modifications. I will be the first to admit though, if you want to get a great suspension setup going, figure out WHAT you are going to use the car for (drag, road, street racing) and then purchase things that will enhance the car to your end goal. If you want a drag setup, get hard suspension up front and softer suspension in the back, this will assist with your takeoffs. I plan to run tracks so my suspension is pretty solid and stiff but it handles so much better than it did when I first took ownership of it. The only downside is that you literally feel EVERY bump but I love it in comparison to the more comfortable stock setup. Suspension from the factory can be viewed as Ford trying to attempt to please both worlds of performance and comfort on a bean counter budget. It just simply cannot perform to it's pique performance compared to when you start altering and modifying it afterward to your own personal preferences. Except for the 03 & 04 Terminators, those cars were pretty ideal from the factory but the rubber on those tires was INSANE. If you really want to see a sweet setup, check out a company called GRIGGS. Their suspension stuff is second to no one from what I've been told and advised of. It's very VERY spendy but offers a pretty good learning lesson into suspension and handling.
Pete is correct about not being true cold air... Funny how in the import world a ram air is $100-175 and a true cold air is $200-500 (I enjoy all sporty type cars except any GM product lol) however I will never own a true cai for a daily agian! Due water hazard and a pia when trying to change filters!
I prefer suspension first then performance due to seeing better results in a race... If I were to race a guy w all bolt-ons and I was running stock motor but w full Suspension and aluminum drive shaft, fly wheel and upgraded clutch 9 times out of 10 my car would out run the bolt on guy (basing that off of real races I have seen) I could b wrong tho...
Off topic a little bit... It seems the gt 500 lacks suspension when compared to it's baby brother the Shelby GT (has ford racing handling pack I believe) if that is true why is that? The Shelby GT is lowered from factory w k springs and the gt 500 has stiffer springs than a regular gt just because they weight more... Kinda weird
I prefer suspension first then performance due to seeing better results in a race... If I were to race a guy w all bolt-ons and I was running stock motor but w full Suspension and aluminum drive shaft, fly wheel and upgraded clutch 9 times out of 10 my car would out run the bolt on guy (basing that off of real races I have seen) I could b wrong tho...
Off topic a little bit... It seems the gt 500 lacks suspension when compared to it's baby brother the Shelby GT (has ford racing handling pack I believe) if that is true why is that? The Shelby GT is lowered from factory w k springs and the gt 500 has stiffer springs than a regular gt just because they weight more... Kinda weird
1/8/12, 06:12 PM
#30
Yea I'm only concerned w handling that's why I'm trying to sell my bbk tb, trade my JLT air intake for FRPP "cai" I want her to snap ur neck around corners... I need shocks and struts next... Have not decided on what brand or type... Don't want to spend too much because I plan on getting coilovers at some point...
1/8/12, 08:49 PM
#31
Mach 1 Member
Originally Posted by silversky545
Yea I'm only concerned w handling that's why I'm trying to sell my bbk tb, trade my JLT air intake for FRPP "cai" I want her to snap ur neck around corners... I need shocks and struts next... Have not decided on what brand or type... Don't want to spend too much because I plan on getting coilovers at some point...
Get the LCA's out and drop that ride with some lowering springs. Also get a UCA, c&c plates, and some good rubber on those tires. The Mustang is gutless when you put the right shoes and suspension mods on it.
4/13/12, 07:46 AM
#32
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Hey gang, any idea where I can get a good Dyno Tune in Fort Worth area? I just bought my first GT and she already has a CAI. I am putting on a Borla cat back this weekend. I don't know much about this stuff, but everyone on here seems to agree that a Dyno tune is a must.
4/13/12, 09:01 AM
#33
Banned
Dude I wouldn't bother until you have all your boltons. Could you imagine dyno tuning every time you bought a new part... It's the best but IMO not practical if you think you're gonna be steadily buying parts. Just my 2 cents
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