Brent - I have a test for you...
12/7/05, 01:27 PM
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Brent,
Do you feel like some more testing??? Ever since the WMS intake came out, we have been hearing about how well it works while rolling down the road due to ram air effect (with the ram air kit). I have seen some pretty big claims for increases in the 60-90 mph range.
So here is my idea. You have access to a nice supply of intakes (stock, C&L, JLT and WMS) and good tunes for each. Give this a try:
1) Run each intake with the appropriate tune
2) Hook up the SCT2 and datalog you 0 to 100 mph run.
3) Repeat the run at least once, better twice
4) Using the time stamp on the datalog, put together a quick table showing the 0-10 times, 10-20 times, 20-30 times, etc. up to 100 mph.
5) Post that spread sheet here!
I know this is a LOT of work! But I also know there are a LOT of people that would like to see what the WMS can REALLY do at speed. Unfortunately, a dyno just can't tell us that info (unless you have a chassis dyno mounted inside a wind tunnel... Are you holding out on us Brent???).
Is there any chance you could "bang" something like this out?
Do you feel like some more testing??? Ever since the WMS intake came out, we have been hearing about how well it works while rolling down the road due to ram air effect (with the ram air kit). I have seen some pretty big claims for increases in the 60-90 mph range.
So here is my idea. You have access to a nice supply of intakes (stock, C&L, JLT and WMS) and good tunes for each. Give this a try:
1) Run each intake with the appropriate tune
2) Hook up the SCT2 and datalog you 0 to 100 mph run.
3) Repeat the run at least once, better twice
4) Using the time stamp on the datalog, put together a quick table showing the 0-10 times, 10-20 times, 20-30 times, etc. up to 100 mph.
5) Post that spread sheet here!
I know this is a LOT of work! But I also know there are a LOT of people that would like to see what the WMS can REALLY do at speed. Unfortunately, a dyno just can't tell us that info (unless you have a chassis dyno mounted inside a wind tunnel... Are you holding out on us Brent???).
Is there any chance you could "bang" something like this out?
12/7/05, 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by RRRoamer@December 7, 2005, 1:30 PM
Brent,
Do you feel like some more testing??? Ever since the WMS intake came out, we have been hearing about how well it works while rolling down the road due to ram air effect (with the ram air kit). I have seen some pretty big claims for increases in the 60-90 mph range.
So here is my idea. You have access to a nice supply of intakes (stock, C&L, JLT and WMS) and good tunes for each. Give this a try:
1) Run each intake with the appropriate tune
2) Hook up the SCT2 and datalog you 0 to 100 mph run.
3) Repeat the run at least once, better twice
4) Using the time stamp on the datalog, put together a quick table showing the 0-10 times, 10-20 times, 20-30 times, etc. up to 100 mph.
5) Post that spread sheet here!
I know this is a LOT of work! But I also know there are a LOT of people that would like to see what the WMS can REALLY do at speed. Unfortunately, a dyno just can't tell us that info (unless you have a chassis dyno mounted inside a wind tunnel... Are you holding out on us Brent???).
Is there any chance you could "bang" something like this out?
Brent,
Do you feel like some more testing??? Ever since the WMS intake came out, we have been hearing about how well it works while rolling down the road due to ram air effect (with the ram air kit). I have seen some pretty big claims for increases in the 60-90 mph range.
So here is my idea. You have access to a nice supply of intakes (stock, C&L, JLT and WMS) and good tunes for each. Give this a try:
1) Run each intake with the appropriate tune
2) Hook up the SCT2 and datalog you 0 to 100 mph run.
3) Repeat the run at least once, better twice
4) Using the time stamp on the datalog, put together a quick table showing the 0-10 times, 10-20 times, 20-30 times, etc. up to 100 mph.
5) Post that spread sheet here!
I know this is a LOT of work! But I also know there are a LOT of people that would like to see what the WMS can REALLY do at speed. Unfortunately, a dyno just can't tell us that info (unless you have a chassis dyno mounted inside a wind tunnel... Are you holding out on us Brent???).
Is there any chance you could "bang" something like this out?
12/7/05, 05:01 PM
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Ram air effect on the SS Camaros and Trans Ams have been proven thru the years to net NO MORE then 5-8 HP at 80 MPH. Would not expect anymore from the WMS. If you really what to pack more air into your cylinders go SC'er or Turbo. Problem is you can't drive around at 80 MPH all day. Under normal driving habits it is not worth anything! Not worth much IMO. 
Scott
Scott
12/7/05, 07:13 PM
#5
I'm not saying yey or nay, but the MACH I shaker has been tested hooked up and un hooked and very minimal gains/loses were seen in the 1/4. That's @ near 100 on a stocker.
Just info, nothing more.
Jay
Just info, nothing more.
Jay
12/7/05, 09:33 PM
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I'm an engineer by trade, so I love DATA!!! Unfortunately, I'm not a RICH engineer or I would buy the parts and test them myself...
Jay,
I think you might have an ulterier motive! If they don't hold up with the ram air, I'm buying your kit instead!
Jay,
I think you might have an ulterier motive! If they don't hold up with the ram air, I'm buying your kit instead!
12/7/05, 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by RRRoamer@December 7, 2005, 10:36 PM
I'm an engineer by trade, so I love DATA!!! Unfortunately, I'm not a RICH engineer or I would buy the parts and test them myself...
Jay,
I think you might have an ulterier motive! If they don't hold up with the ram air, I'm buying your kit instead!
I'm an engineer by trade, so I love DATA!!! Unfortunately, I'm not a RICH engineer or I would buy the parts and test them myself...
Jay,
I think you might have an ulterier motive! If they don't hold up with the ram air, I'm buying your kit instead!
12/8/05, 08:37 AM
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12/8/05, 09:39 AM
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I have the WMS intake 90mm with the "Ram air tray" I purchased this along with a SCT 2 from Brent. I wasn't really looking for any big gains from the ram air tray but more for what I felt was the ability to gather cold air effectivley to get uniform inlet air temps. I also personally like the looks of the WMS front mounted setup.
I have data logged the inlet temps and they run very close to ambiant temps while driving.
If there is a gain to be had from the "ram air" effect of course it would be at higher speeds 70-80+, in a 1/4 mile your time at these speeds and higher is very short and any improvement would only equate to a very small decrease in times.
I really can't give you a stock to WMS comparision as I installed the intake and tune in the car when I brought it home from the dealer. Only 6 miles.
JLH
I have data logged the inlet temps and they run very close to ambiant temps while driving.
If there is a gain to be had from the "ram air" effect of course it would be at higher speeds 70-80+, in a 1/4 mile your time at these speeds and higher is very short and any improvement would only equate to a very small decrease in times.
I really can't give you a stock to WMS comparision as I installed the intake and tune in the car when I brought it home from the dealer. Only 6 miles.
JLH
12/8/05, 06:09 PM
#11
I would also think the best gain from the tray would be the fact that it insulates the incoming engine from the hot engine bay air. In the spring I am considering the WMS and the tray, plus one of the funtional ram air hoods with the 2 scoops all the way at the front of the hood. This would dump the air right into the tray
12/9/05, 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by Mongoose@December 7, 2005, 10:45 PM
I do not think so. He is a honest guy that has a short fuse but I do trust him as I do the Big Three Tuners. After all they sell other pipes also.
I do not think so. He is a honest guy that has a short fuse but I do trust him as I do the Big Three Tuners. After all they sell other pipes also.
I'm leaning more and more towards Jay's product. Maybe a late Christmas present for my car... She deserves it!
12/9/05, 01:09 PM
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RRRoamer . . . since you like data . . . you did catch this stuff from the WMS site right 
?
http://www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/05hvi.htm
Stock Intake: 50 - 100mph: 12.34 seconds
WMS Intake: 50 - 100mph: 11.03 seconds
Gains from WMS Intake: 1.31 seconds faster
Stock Intake: Intake Air Temp @ 50mph: 104°
WMS Intake: Intake Air Temp @ 50mph: 68°
Gains from WMS Intake: 36° colder intake temperature
Stock Intake: Intake Air Temp @ 100mph: 84°
WMS Intake: Intake Air Temp @ 100mph: 66°
Gains from WMS Intake: 18° colder intake temperature
Stock Intake: MAF voltage @ 100mph: 4.2V
WMS Intake: MAF voltage @ 100mph: 4.3V
?http://www.wmsracing.com/wmsweb/05hvi.htm
Stock Intake: 50 - 100mph: 12.34 seconds
WMS Intake: 50 - 100mph: 11.03 seconds
Gains from WMS Intake: 1.31 seconds faster
Stock Intake: Intake Air Temp @ 50mph: 104°
WMS Intake: Intake Air Temp @ 50mph: 68°
Gains from WMS Intake: 36° colder intake temperature
Stock Intake: Intake Air Temp @ 100mph: 84°
WMS Intake: Intake Air Temp @ 100mph: 66°
Gains from WMS Intake: 18° colder intake temperature
Stock Intake: MAF voltage @ 100mph: 4.2V
WMS Intake: MAF voltage @ 100mph: 4.3V
12/9/05, 01:27 PM
#14
Originally posted by The Lyin' King@December 9, 2005, 12:12 PM
Stock Intake: 50 - 100mph: 12.34 seconds
WMS Intake: 50 - 100mph: 11.03 seconds
Gains from WMS Intake: 1.31 seconds faster
Stock Intake: 50 - 100mph: 12.34 seconds
WMS Intake: 50 - 100mph: 11.03 seconds
Gains from WMS Intake: 1.31 seconds faster
For example, one thing that jumps out at me is the apparent discrepancy between the normally accepted performance of a stock 05/06 GT and these numbers. For example, let's assume that a stock GT can run the 1/4-mile in 14.0 secs @ about 100mph. [I know this isn't the same for every car, but it's not that far off.] That would mean in the test cited above, the stock GT could run 0-50mph in about 1.7 secs. I don't think so. The WMS number looks a little closer to reality... 0-50 in about 3 seconds, but even that would be pushing it (assuming a 0-60mph time is around 5 sec, +/-). And considering the intake likely dropped the 1/4 time to below 14.0sec, it would be even less than 3 sec going 0-50mph. :scratch:
I guess one could use these numbers for whatever purpose they want, but to me, they don't make much sense.
My $0.02....
12/9/05, 01:37 PM
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Those numbers are the bulk of the reason I created this thread. I don't trust manufacturer's numbers one bit. In some cases, the gain advertised are proven time and again to be true (JLT comes to mind!). In others, well, we all know about many of the others ... *caugh* throttle body *caugh*
I was hoping someone with access to the intakes and the tunes could do a bit of performance testing on their car. Brent came to mind!
I was hoping someone with access to the intakes and the tunes could do a bit of performance testing on their car. Brent came to mind!
12/9/05, 01:48 PM
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Last month I read in MM&FF a comparison test of CAIs. They were able to duplicate the hp/tq gains WMS states on their website. MM&FF also said in the article that they believe the WMS will be the ultimate CAI for the s197s when combined with a ram-air hood.
12/9/05, 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by don_w@December 9, 2005, 1:30 PM
That is a strange comparison. Both of those numbers seem to be slow to me. I wonder what the test conditions were? Strong headwind? Uphill?
For example, one thing that jumps out at me is the apparent discrepancy between the normally accepted performance of a stock 05/06 GT and these numbers. For example, let's assume that a stock GT can run the 1/4-mile in 14.0 secs @ about 100mph. [I know this isn't the same for every car, but it's not that far off.] That would mean in the test cited above, the stock GT could run 0-50mph in about 1.7 secs. I don't think so. The WMS number looks a little closer to reality... 0-50 in about 3 seconds, but even that would be pushing it (assuming a 0-60mph time is around 5 sec, +/-). And considering the intake likely dropped the 1/4 time to below 14.0sec, it would be even less than 3 sec going 0-50mph. :scratch:
I guess one could use these numbers for whatever purpose they want, but to me, they don't make much sense.
My $0.02....
That is a strange comparison. Both of those numbers seem to be slow to me. I wonder what the test conditions were? Strong headwind? Uphill?
For example, one thing that jumps out at me is the apparent discrepancy between the normally accepted performance of a stock 05/06 GT and these numbers. For example, let's assume that a stock GT can run the 1/4-mile in 14.0 secs @ about 100mph. [I know this isn't the same for every car, but it's not that far off.] That would mean in the test cited above, the stock GT could run 0-50mph in about 1.7 secs. I don't think so. The WMS number looks a little closer to reality... 0-50 in about 3 seconds, but even that would be pushing it (assuming a 0-60mph time is around 5 sec, +/-). And considering the intake likely dropped the 1/4 time to below 14.0sec, it would be even less than 3 sec going 0-50mph. :scratch:
I guess one could use these numbers for whatever purpose they want, but to me, they don't make much sense.
My $0.02....
12/9/05, 02:25 PM
#18
Originally posted by The Lyin' King@December 9, 2005, 1:18 PM
Perhaps this would explain it . . . . "The test consisted of accelerating the car from 50 to 100mph in 3rd gear (roughly 3000 to 5850 rpm) "
Perhaps this would explain it . . . . "The test consisted of accelerating the car from 50 to 100mph in 3rd gear (roughly 3000 to 5850 rpm) "
12/9/05, 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by don_w@December 9, 2005, 2:28 PM
Yea, that could have an effect... even though is it still pretty much right in the powerband.
Yea, that could have an effect... even though is it still pretty much right in the powerband.
12/9/05, 03:24 PM
#20
Originally posted by The Lyin' King@December 9, 2005, 1:49 PM
I could be mistaken . . . . but I believe my car with a manual 5 spd tranny goes almost 40 in 1st, nearly 80 in second and close to 105mph in 3rd) . . . . so a third gear pull from 50mph would definately have an effect on the 50-100 time quoted IMHO.
I could be mistaken . . . . but I believe my car with a manual 5 spd tranny goes almost 40 in 1st, nearly 80 in second and close to 105mph in 3rd) . . . . so a third gear pull from 50mph would definately have an effect on the 50-100 time quoted IMHO.