kevinb120

Oh I agree there, it will hold but you do get the pucker factor About the same as if you hit rough pavement when at 75% around a corner on a bike. It doesn't have that spongy-stuck feeling a BMW has. BMW's do have very little travel though and on some off ramps the front can skip on the pavement on bumps. I'm impressed how much just the springs took out most of the feeling of the rear axle squirming on moderate turns. Considering the 'rural' areas around here still have bicyclists and what-not come out of nowhere I never really drive crazy fast around the 2 lane roads anymore. Most of the roads here have been converted to glass-smooth sweeping parkways. For now I'm calling it 'good nuff', next mod....

ttbit

I tried to get my alignment done tonight. I figured I would ask for -1.2 camber max and about .03 - .05 toe-in, based on what I read here.

It was at -1.0 camber and -.2 toe on the left side and -1.5 camber -.05 toe on the right when I brought it in. He adjusted the toe at +.05 on both sides and started talking about boring out my holes on the strut towers to adjust my camber. I SAID NO NO NO. He didn't seem to know or want to use camber bolts down at the lower part of the strut. The bad thing was, I really thought my camber was OK (ink was out on the printer and was reading it wrong) so I didn't push it and didn't want any drilling on my car. I knew it was too good to be true.

Guess I got a little flustered as the guy I talked to on the phone seemed to know exactly what I wanted but left by the time I got there this evening.

SO WTH...I might be at toe out at .010 total and my camber is off on one side. Nice... I guess I will talk to their manager tomorrow and see what I can get done. It's not like they want me to tell them how to do their job either, I am sure.

kevinb120

Talk to the guy that knows how to do it tomorrow and get it re-done to where it should be

TBone69

Hmmm, very interesting info. My car is very unstable on rutted roads and gets very twitchy when changing lanes on "crowned" roads. sounds like and alignmentn with some toe adjustment is in my future.

RobK

Don't get too excited, that'll happen no matter what your alignment specs. A bigger factor is your tire size. Wider tires make it much worse. Of course the severity of the ruts has an impact as well...

ttbit

I took the car back in today to get it fixed and they had "camber bolts" that they said they would use. They couldn't get the camber adjusted more than .1 on either side! I am at 1.1 and 1.4 now. They asked me to order the bolts I spoke of and come back. They didn't charge me anything more and they spent 2 hours trying. BYOB (bring your own bolts) might be something learned here. I checked out StangSuspension.com for their bolts. Almost $10.00 shipping! I wonder if the Napa bolts (2643642) are the same. I hate to go back with bolts that don't work though.

tkogt

Negitive camber is your friend . Without grinding the slots in my struts
and useing 81260 bolts from Orielly I got 1.7 deg neg. Camber doesnt really wear out your tires untill you go over 2 degs or so, so feel free to add as much as you can get.

Toe, on the other hand can cause premature wear if not set correctly.

I set mine at an 1/8 inch out. (Thats a 16th per side) and dont ad a bunch more for track duty.

I have about 8 k miles on my MX's (more than 500 miles of track time)

and still have 5/32nds left(about 1/2 tread)

The car turns in fairly well and I'm happy with the milage I'm getting
out of the tires.

Mods : full FRPP susp kit/ 275/40/18 MX's on 9.5 inch wheels.

hope this helps


Jay

ttbit

Great info on the 81260 bolt. I didn't realize I could get it locally! $24(pair) after tax at O's. I gave that to my alignment place and they had no problems after that. I am at -1.2 camber .05 toe per side. Even with the larger negative camber I had before the bolts, there still needs to be more done for the understeer, IMO. I guess I will look at sway bars next.

Thanks to all.

RobK

If you're trying to dial-out understeer you can play with your pressures a bit. All cars have tons of understeer dialed in as a safety factor. You'll likely have to do some sway bar swapping in order to make any appreciable difference. Just make sure you do leave some understeer in there so you don't go skating off the road when you least expect it.

kevinb120

That's sound about exactly what I'm looking for too. I ordered a set on ebay for about the same price from a good seller. TKOGT is going to have a bit higher neg because the lower springs unless you swap out all four bolts(+/-3 deg with upper and lowers). And if you have the stock 17" Pirellis, you're going to be hard pressed to 'dial' out understeer with a relatively hard all-season tire. See if you can find pics of members autocrossing with the stockers, they all but fold under the rim and give up the ghost under hard cornering. The understeer can also be corrected a bit with the loud pedal too I don't know how hard I would be pushing it on the street with stock tires though. And a car that comes close to oversteer on dry pavement will be more then a handfull in the wet to say the least.

ttbit

Very true. My last Mustang had 400 rwtq after 2000 rpm and all kinds of oversteer. I barely had to whipser with that pedal to get the rear where I wanted it. These cars don't have much torque down low and that is one of the hardest things for me to get used to. My Lincoln LS8 had less understeer than this car. It was actually pretty well balanced...but...lacking power. I was just really surprise how much understeer and wheel hop these things had and are the only complaints I have really. Love the aftermarket!

tkogt

I dont think that I would put bolts in both holes, if you need more camber I'd recommend grinding the struts and useing all of the stock bolts.

Also I thought id mention that when setting the camber on my car i put the bolts in the upper hole and turned them to max neg camber. I also set the camber with both the upper and lower bolts loose and had one of my guys pull out on the bottom and push in on the top of the tire.This was done with the car on a rack and the ft tires floating in the air. Then when the car goes to the alignment rack the side with the least amount of camber is matched by taking some camber out of the other side.

Hope this helps

Jay

ttbit

And here most of us are trying to get it back to a little less negative.

Kevin...change your avatar back. I am going to have nightmares now. Also, I'll bet your camber won't be worse than -1.5 on either side...unless you cranked your struts over before tightening the 4 bolts. I cranked mine for less negative. This is my daily driver, otherwise more negative would probably be nice.

tkogt

Remember, Grasshopper.

Negitive camber up to -2deg will not eat tires. It will just corner better!!


Jay

ttbit

Thanks for your input Jay. I am amazed at how much different info people give you. I was told anything past -.75 would eat tires from one guy and most others would say -1.5. I know from experience that -1.25 didn't cause me any grief. The guy who aligned my '95 to the -1.25 told me I would be back in a few months for tire wear. I drove it like that for years. I suppose -2 probably wouldn't have caused grief either.

max2000jp

Gus at Steeda recommend -1.3 degrees for a street driven vehicle and -2.0+ at the track.