adding the BBK TB with your CAI/Tune
10/23/05, 09:08 AM
#1
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I would love to add the BBK TB with my existing JLT CAI and Xcal2 tune. MMFF says you don't have to re tune. They say as is, the HP increase in around 15hp. This is probably my next step in performance. I know the TB spacer has gotten much fan fair, but how about adding a new TB totally.
How are the BBK products as a rule?
How did you like the BBK TB? price you got it at?
Thanks
How are the BBK products as a rule?
How did you like the BBK TB? price you got it at?
Thanks
10/23/05, 10:35 PM
#3
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Don't expect the 15 h.p. gain from the TB since you have the CAI already.
The most gain is realized if the TB is used with the stock setup, no aftermarket CAI and custom tune.
Since you already have the CAI and custom tune, adding the TB will probably not increase h.p. all that much.
hags1
The most gain is realized if the TB is used with the stock setup, no aftermarket CAI and custom tune.
Since you already have the CAI and custom tune, adding the TB will probably not increase h.p. all that much.
hags1
10/24/05, 01:01 AM
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BBK has reliable products, but they seem to be having trouble getting their products to the market. I waited a long time for BBK on the CAI and the TB, and after delay after delay, I finally just ordered other products.
The BBK stuff was supposed to be out the 3rd week of September, and when I had last talked to a BBK Sales Rep that very week to see where the delay was, he reluctantly informed me that the production schedule was then showing mid-October for the CAI and "sometime in December" for the Throttle Body, assuming no additional delays.
I went with the C&L CAI which I got shortly after ordering. As for the Throttle Body, I ordered the Motoblue, and I was supposed to get it about 2 weeks after ordering it. After a few weeks and it had not arrived, I started calling and harassing the place I purchased from every day. After me doing that for a week, they contacted the supplier to see why their product was not coming in on time, and they told them an ETA of the 2nd week of November. Hate to wait that long, but it's better than BBK's uncertain December release date I guess.
On the 05/06 GT, a 62mm Throttle Body should improve performance by about 16 horsepower and 28 Torque when it is used alone. Some of the benefit you get from the Throttle Body has already been realized if you have a CAI set-up already. So a CAI and TB being used together should show improvements of about 27 horsepower and 37 Torque, and I bet a tuner would furthur increase those numbers.
It's not typical to get that much extra power from a TB & CAI on most cars, which is why so many people are skeptical, but the members on this board and elsewhere have proven over and over that there is significant power to be gained in the cars intake, as it seems Ford has designed a very restrictive intake compared to what the aftermarket guys are offering.
The BBK stuff was supposed to be out the 3rd week of September, and when I had last talked to a BBK Sales Rep that very week to see where the delay was, he reluctantly informed me that the production schedule was then showing mid-October for the CAI and "sometime in December" for the Throttle Body, assuming no additional delays.
I went with the C&L CAI which I got shortly after ordering. As for the Throttle Body, I ordered the Motoblue, and I was supposed to get it about 2 weeks after ordering it. After a few weeks and it had not arrived, I started calling and harassing the place I purchased from every day. After me doing that for a week, they contacted the supplier to see why their product was not coming in on time, and they told them an ETA of the 2nd week of November. Hate to wait that long, but it's better than BBK's uncertain December release date I guess.
On the 05/06 GT, a 62mm Throttle Body should improve performance by about 16 horsepower and 28 Torque when it is used alone. Some of the benefit you get from the Throttle Body has already been realized if you have a CAI set-up already. So a CAI and TB being used together should show improvements of about 27 horsepower and 37 Torque, and I bet a tuner would furthur increase those numbers.
It's not typical to get that much extra power from a TB & CAI on most cars, which is why so many people are skeptical, but the members on this board and elsewhere have proven over and over that there is significant power to be gained in the cars intake, as it seems Ford has designed a very restrictive intake compared to what the aftermarket guys are offering.
10/24/05, 01:10 AM
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Ryland
Sometimes its not the price you pay for ownership but the pride in owning the very best you can afford. The cast TB may be just as good as the totally machined LFP but I feel I am worth it. Which one would put the best smile on your face? That is the one you should purchase. After all you are the only one that knows your true value.
Sometimes its not the price you pay for ownership but the pride in owning the very best you can afford. The cast TB may be just as good as the totally machined LFP but I feel I am worth it. Which one would put the best smile on your face? That is the one you should purchase. After all you are the only one that knows your true value.
10/24/05, 10:02 AM
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KWMJ-KTP,
It sounds like you are quoting the numbers right out of the October MM&FF "review" of the BBK throttle body and CAI.
I would be VERy careful with those numbers until someone with there own dyno (or access to one of course!) gets there hands on the parts and dynos them on their car. Frankly, the numbers just sound too good to be true. Period. Especially given that the other 62mm Tbs on the market are only giving a few HP and lb-ft. These are not "marketing" numbers. These are numbers folks in this forum have gotten after bolting them on and running on the dyno.
Personally, I hope the numbers are true for the BBK parts. I am still holding off on buying a CAI until these parts are out and tested in the real world. I just have a bad feeling that the real numbers are not going to be anything near the magazine numbers.
But I sure do hope I am wrong!
It sounds like you are quoting the numbers right out of the October MM&FF "review" of the BBK throttle body and CAI.
I would be VERy careful with those numbers until someone with there own dyno (or access to one of course!) gets there hands on the parts and dynos them on their car. Frankly, the numbers just sound too good to be true. Period. Especially given that the other 62mm Tbs on the market are only giving a few HP and lb-ft. These are not "marketing" numbers. These are numbers folks in this forum have gotten after bolting them on and running on the dyno.
Personally, I hope the numbers are true for the BBK parts. I am still holding off on buying a CAI until these parts are out and tested in the real world. I just have a bad feeling that the real numbers are not going to be anything near the magazine numbers.
But I sure do hope I am wrong!
10/27/05, 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by traffic142@October 24, 2005, 10:49 AM
I think I will hold out also. Might just go with some pulley changes
I think I will hold out also. Might just go with some pulley changes
10/27/05, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Mongoose@October 27, 2005, 1:00 AM
I can just reach up there and turn the AC off when required to do a job on some rice.
I can just reach up there and turn the AC off when required to do a job on some rice.
10/27/05, 07:14 PM
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I have the MM&FF where they claim awesome gains from the BBK TB and CAI. This made me want to get it...
But then I emailed a very reputable local tuner about it and he URGED me not to get a larger throttle body for my car.
What do you guys think about that?
But then I emailed a very reputable local tuner about it and he URGED me not to get a larger throttle body for my car.
Originally posted by reputable local tuner
1. The stock throttle body flows MORE than enough air for that engine.
2. We have replaced several of these with the OEM throttle body, at $400.00
a pop, because the client destroyed the factory motor and sensor, which have
to be swapped-this assembly is extremely sensitive to spring pressure, turns
of the spring, and bearing drag, etc.
3. The companies that spend all of the cash, machining a part that offers
very little to no gain, at a high price to the consumer, will not admit this
is a bad idea.
4. If 1000 people jump off of bridge, it does not mean it is a good idea.
1. The stock throttle body flows MORE than enough air for that engine.
2. We have replaced several of these with the OEM throttle body, at $400.00
a pop, because the client destroyed the factory motor and sensor, which have
to be swapped-this assembly is extremely sensitive to spring pressure, turns
of the spring, and bearing drag, etc.
3. The companies that spend all of the cash, machining a part that offers
very little to no gain, at a high price to the consumer, will not admit this
is a bad idea.
4. If 1000 people jump off of bridge, it does not mean it is a good idea.
10/28/05, 08:40 AM
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Who cares what the BBK T/B delivers....you can't get one anyway....well maybe some day they will be available.....??
My tuner said the same thing...if your using an aftermarket CAI, just about anyone of them, and you have a tune for your particular setup, ie. exhaust, CAI, and gas your running....the aftermarket T/B won't provide the advertised gains....not even close.... it's not a direct addition of h.p. and torque......
The only way to get the advertised gains is to use the aftermarket T/B with the factory setup....
hags1
My tuner said the same thing...if your using an aftermarket CAI, just about anyone of them, and you have a tune for your particular setup, ie. exhaust, CAI, and gas your running....the aftermarket T/B won't provide the advertised gains....not even close.... it's not a direct addition of h.p. and torque......
The only way to get the advertised gains is to use the aftermarket T/B with the factory setup....
hags1
10/28/05, 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by clockworks+October 27, 2005, 7:17 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clockworks @ October 27, 2005, 7:17 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I have the MM&FF where they claim awesome gains from the BBK TB and CAI. This made me want to get it...
But then I emailed a very reputable local tuner about it and he URGED me not to get a larger throttle body for my car.
<!--QuoteBegin-reputable local tuner
1. The stock throttle body flows MORE than enough air for that engine. - Strange. That is NOT what is shown by WMS datalogging data. They are showing a clear vacuum in the intake manifold BEHIND the TB at WOT. This vacuum is not pressent in FRONT of the TB (at least with the WMS or other aftermarket CAI), so the TB does appear to be a restriction. If you have a vacuum in the intake at WOT, you are leaving HP on the table. And from the datalogs, it was a significant level of vacuum. I want to see this guys data showing the stock TB "flows MORE than enough air" before I am going to buy argument.
2. We have replaced several of these with the OEM throttle body, at $400.00
a pop, because the client destroyed the factory motor and sensor, which have
to be swapped-this assembly is extremely sensitive to spring pressure, turns
of the spring, and bearing drag, etc. - Why do I doubt this? Oh what! There are NOT that many aftermarket TBs for the 05/06 Mustang out yet! I REALLY have issues believing that he has "several" clients who have all destroyed there stock TB motor assemblies at this stage of the game. This just doesn't pass the "smells right" test.
3. The companies that spend all of the cash, machining a part that offers
very little to no gain, at a high price to the consumer, will not admit this
is a bad idea. - This is a very good point. Except for one small issue: When people spend there hard earned money on an expensive hop up and get NO gain, they tend to be pissed. But, some of the folks with the billet TB have already said the HP gain isn't that much, but the throttle response is much improved.
4. If 1000 people jump off of bridge, it does not mean it is a good idea. - If there is a raging forest fire behind you and nice, cold water under the bridge, probably. This is just a childish quote that a mom would use to TRY to keep her kits from drinking underage. It is totally irrelevant. Plus, if he REALLY wanted to use this quote, he should have used it in the context of all the folks buying CAIs. For every person that busy a TB, there are probably close to 50 to 100 that buy a CAI.
I just wonder if his "tune" will change once HE has a TB to sell you. That wouldn't be the first time THAT happened.
But then I emailed a very reputable local tuner about it and he URGED me not to get a larger throttle body for my car.
<!--QuoteBegin-reputable local tuner
1. The stock throttle body flows MORE than enough air for that engine. - Strange. That is NOT what is shown by WMS datalogging data. They are showing a clear vacuum in the intake manifold BEHIND the TB at WOT. This vacuum is not pressent in FRONT of the TB (at least with the WMS or other aftermarket CAI), so the TB does appear to be a restriction. If you have a vacuum in the intake at WOT, you are leaving HP on the table. And from the datalogs, it was a significant level of vacuum. I want to see this guys data showing the stock TB "flows MORE than enough air" before I am going to buy argument.
2. We have replaced several of these with the OEM throttle body, at $400.00
a pop, because the client destroyed the factory motor and sensor, which have
to be swapped-this assembly is extremely sensitive to spring pressure, turns
of the spring, and bearing drag, etc. - Why do I doubt this? Oh what! There are NOT that many aftermarket TBs for the 05/06 Mustang out yet! I REALLY have issues believing that he has "several" clients who have all destroyed there stock TB motor assemblies at this stage of the game. This just doesn't pass the "smells right" test.
3. The companies that spend all of the cash, machining a part that offers
very little to no gain, at a high price to the consumer, will not admit this
is a bad idea. - This is a very good point. Except for one small issue: When people spend there hard earned money on an expensive hop up and get NO gain, they tend to be pissed. But, some of the folks with the billet TB have already said the HP gain isn't that much, but the throttle response is much improved.
4. If 1000 people jump off of bridge, it does not mean it is a good idea. - If there is a raging forest fire behind you and nice, cold water under the bridge, probably. This is just a childish quote that a mom would use to TRY to keep her kits from drinking underage. It is totally irrelevant. Plus, if he REALLY wanted to use this quote, he should have used it in the context of all the folks buying CAIs. For every person that busy a TB, there are probably close to 50 to 100 that buy a CAI.
I just wonder if his "tune" will change once HE has a TB to sell you. That wouldn't be the first time THAT happened.
[/b][/quote]
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