0.12 increase in the pax, thanks Sam!
I am just kidding, it will make us all better in the long run.

 

Sorry.... Ok, not really the indexes only change like that when car proves it can go fast.
I just happen to have a handle on driving and setting these things up for autox (8 of the top 9 fastest cars @ Nationals are customers of mine).

Hey.... why is this forum seemingly so dead? It's a shame, because the car is a classis pony car and can do some damned fine things on the handling side. Do that few people actually do things like autox the car?

 

Four observations:
1. Currently there is no leader that hypes up local events, regionals or national events. YOU can help. There was a guy from Ontario that placed well, and talked alot, but alas he has been absent for 18 months.
2. Mustang's live rear axle has tended to favor drag racing as opposed to autocrossing. So you have horsepower wars and cars setup for 1/4 mile.
3. I belong to 4 local NC Mustang clubs and not a single person autocrosses.
The older group club simply hangs out in parking lots and show their cars off at drive ins. You know all to well the Mustang Clubs of America clubs. The organizatoin will die or will have to change.

Then there is the mid 40s club, they parking in lots to bars and simple drink and carry on like rednecks, not realizing the sport of AutoX.

Then there is the twentysomethings that socialize, go on poker runs, eat out in nice restuarants, do burnouts when we leave the restaurant, do the occasional parade, but still no interest in "racing" the car.

Finally there is the show car clubs, they polish, shine and cruise on nice days, never getting the car above 3k rpms.

I think people on this board fall into these categories quite often.

4. Finally, there are those who don't have an idea of how to start, setup a car, and then when they do, SCCA people at local events are so clickish that its hard getting into social scene. AND for me, only ONE other mustang among 5 SCCA clubs in NC and SC really autoX on a regular basis. So I end up talking to the Miata and S2000 people.

My $.02

 

It's doubtful that most of the users on this site even know there are other forums other than 2005-2009 main.

 

A-men!!! Try being a SN-95 driver on this board.

 

WHATS A SN-95

 

What a shame.... The solid axle thing, okay it's not "cool". But there are plenty in use even in racing evironments from TransAm/GT1 cars, to Nextel Cup, to Australian V8 SuperCars. And we have FS and ESP as play grounds in autox. No excuse there, or at least shouldn't be.

The "clicky" thing. I didn't know anyone when I started autoxing in 1994--nobody. Today all my friends are autoxers. I don't think it's any more clicky then anything else. I've been to the drag strip and nobody talked to me either. You have to put yourself out there. And there is no reason a club couldn't get together and go to an event as a group. In fact I find autoxers to be pretty keep to themselves folks, but always willing to help if asked.

I try and get folks involved whenever I can. Nothing like taking a newbie for a ride. When the realize it's like an amusement park ride but way cheaper, and they can do it too... it usually hooks 'em.

 

When you talk about "setup" what kinds of things are you doing if running in the "stock" class? I ran a few events this year and would like to do more next season but I am not sure what to do if keeping stock.

I am going to need new tires soon and two sets of tires are not in the budget so I need to run street tires. I am considering keeping the stock bullitts (for weight reasons) and putting Nitto 555 255/50/17s - would this be a good upgrade? Any other tire recomendations for the 17x8 bullitt?

Also would adjustable shock help tune out some of the understeer? If so how? Stiff front-soft rear or the other way around?

 

Careful eveyone, motorsports that involves more than driving in a straight line and shifting twice is more addictive than crack cocaine! I started in my 96 Cobra before moving to a 1990 Miata then ending up in a 125cc Shifter Kart. I made a brief jump into these:





It's a 1975 Legrand Mark 18 D Sports Racer (DSR) with a 1300cc motorcycle engine. Not quite as fast as my shifter kart in 0 to 100 although it has a definate top end advantage. Here's some videos of the DSR with its new owner behind the wheel in Houston, TX:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDs0lReb9B4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0PuH_9JahQ

 

Stock is a category, and while limited on the mods, there are a number of things you can do and ways to do them.

I don't have stock shocks, endlinks, alignment, tires (size or type), run various fluids in the diff to help it out, different swaybar settings, tire pressures, etc.

If you want to be serious in stock, street tires won't cut it. I wouldn't bother upgrading the tires at all because they aren't what you'll ultimately need to be competitive if that's the goal. And there are classes in which you can run more streetable street tires (and the 555's aren't up to snuff there either), but the rules still limit you on tire size and wheel size though you can do other mods. If you need dual purpose tires, I'd strongly recommend the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec, or Bridgestone RE-01R as possibilities that are way better than 555's, and two of "THE" Street Touring class tires to have. You can run them in stock too, but since R-comps are legal it's rough

I don't just run F-stock. I have 3 National Championships in E Street Prepared as well. That's where you get into springs, bars, PHB or watts links, better differentials, bigger wheels and tires, flywheels, seats, headers, intakes, tunes, etc. etc.....

Shocks don't change steady state balance, but they do effect response and stabilty. Changes there can help the car turn better, and make you more comfortable. In fact adjustable shocks are pretty much the universal first big change to any autox car, stock or otherwise even if it's brand new. Alignment tweaks help, better tires would help. But newer folks tend to over drive, quite a lot, and you can't tune a car around someone going 40 into a 25mph corner. I have no idea if that's you, just thought I'd mention it. I was new too once and remember the trials and tribulations well.

I'm happy to help you with setup. It's what I do.... but can't be done by e-mail. I'd also recommend you look into schools. Most especially Evolution Performance Driving Schools (shameless plug as I am an instructor for them).

 

Thanks for the wise words Sam. I'm sure I was over driving the car early on and I still need lots of practice. I feel like I am getting better at braking early enough to drive the car through/out of corners rather than "pushing" through the corner. Although I know the most important "mod" I can do is practice because I am the biggest weak link thus far, I do feel that the car could turn in better too.

I am probably going to do adjustable shock if possible this coming season but I will have to replace tires for sure just do to wear at this point. I guess I am looking for a tire recomendation but I have two possibilities, what tire (and size) should I be looking at if I:

1. Stay with stock 17x8 Bullitts and don't want a drastically smaller (diameter) tire? The reason I was thinking Nitto 555s was they are one of very few tires that come in a wider than stocK (255 vs 235) but still 27" tall. I can live with something in the 26"ish range but I don't think anything shorter would work as a daily driver.
2. Move up to 18x8.5? I see the Direzza's come in 245/45/18 so this would work. Is there anything wider in 18 that could also be daily driven that you could/would reccomend?

I sure appreciate the advice and once I get a little more seat time I may take you up on more setup help. I amy have to look at the schools as well.

Thanks again.

 

Overdriving slow corners is the biggest, most common mistake there is. Underdriving, and turning too late in transitional move is the next biggest issue I see.

The tire size thing will always be an issue given the oddball size on this car. And the 245/45-18 are still going to be a fair bit shorter than stock since the stock size is 235/50-18. But @ 26.6" diameter isn't that much shorter than stock so you speedo won't be far of, etc. I think that's a great choice as a dual purpose tire (but realize that they are pretty sporty with autox intentions, so don't wear like iron). You have more options in 18's that's for sure, and from a performance standpoint lowering the Cg is good especially when you don't compromise suspension travel or geometry to do it, and tire size doesn't. And when you move to R-comps, you have a better shot at finding used 18's these days than used 17's since a lot of popular cars use 18's now.

 

Sam...I've seen a number of pics of your car posted and I noticed in your sig it looks like you are running the polished 18" bullitts in the rain - I assume you run those only in wet conditions. If I am correct, what size/brand do you run on the stock wheels if you don't mind my asking? Also is the Shelby GT a street driven car for you?

I noticed some older posts elsewhere that oyu said you thought the regular GT (no-Shelby) was still competitive, do you still think that is true?

 

My rains are on 18" Bullitt's (silver, not polished) because in the rain the heavier wheels don't hurt, and in a few ways help.....

I have completely different wheels for the dries. We have a set of Volk RE30's, and a few sets of Axis Circuit wheels. Both are forged (and very different in price). Both weigh around 17 pounds each. I've seen cast wheels crack, to the point of a destoyed Mini Cooper S with a friend driving.... Add the weight to the fact I've seen around 10 wheels of various design fail, and I'm not in love with running cheap stuff very often.

That said, I do have a set of cheap beater rims I check constantly. They can be tossed if they show any signs of damage and I won't feel bad.

I race on Hoosier A6 in 295/30-18. On the street, and the Shelby is street driven we still have the stock BFG's on it. They're fine for how the car is driven, and we prefer to spend our stuff on the items that matter and make the car faster where it counts for us....

I do think on certain courses a GT and Bullitt can run with an SGT. Those would be very transitional courses. The more sweepers, the better the SGT is. I've run, on average, between .3 and .7 slower on long 50 second type courses that aren't transitional in nature. So while the car is competitive in so far as it can trophy (and maybe win on the right course nationally, particularly airport type courses) the SGT is frankly the car to have for an all around assault on F-stock.

We saw that a Bullitt ran very well day 1 @ Nationals, and the course are primo for that car. Very transient with a big dig from a 180 that suited the gearing. But day 2 on a more twisting course, the Bullitt didn't do so well and feel a number of spots and ended up more than 1.5 back as I recall.

 

Thanks for sharing all of that info Sam. I think after I become a better driver I will eventually want to start thinking about a set of dedicated race wheels/tires but until then I will work on "me" the most.

Thanks again,
Kelly