Bert

I hope this link works . . . someday I will break down and open a youtube account but for now this is the only way I have to post video.

I am trying to figure out what I can do differently to shave some more off my lap times. I think I am over driving my tires at some points but having a hard time figuring out exactly where and how to manage better. For sure I was too hot going into Turn 4 (the right-hand hairpin) on most of these laps.

I know it is hard to tell from a video but any thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance.

https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/videos/2029528

dmichaels

Hey Bert - I'll offer some input... also posted below is a lap from my last outing at TSMP in the Mustang. For reference on the line

Turn 1 - looks like you have a couple more feet of track on the inside right as you enter. Turn in a little harder (trail brake in or scrub a touch more speed to get in). That will give you a lot more track on the exit so you can get on the gas harder/sooner and carry speed through turn 2 all the way to 3

You're using only about 1/2 the track out from turn 2, so I think you could go into that turn with more speed and rely on the additional track to let the car track out more before shifting back right before turn 3

Get on the gas harder out of turn 3 because there is some "extra track out" in the are where the "short track" cut out is. It's coned off, but you can run wide there when you carry more speed out of 3

4 - the corner is just a crappy, super slow turn. Not saying your line is, but the corner itself. Over brake for that one if anything so you can get inside on the apex. SLow in, fast out

Turn 5/6 under the bridge looked good. You were way left and did not upset the car on that nasty pavement transition.

Turn 7/8 around the inside of the banked turn - I use the same line. It's a tire eating, understeer inducing off camber turn that you just need to get around. I have yet to find a satisfying way through it

Entering turn 9, you stayed wide right, then turned in. I like to cut inside left more transitioning off the oval, because then I can nail the brakes hard after the transition before turning in left

Turn 10 you're set up well for, but turn in a little harder to try to clip the curbing, cause coming out of that you don't have a lot of track to play with.

Are you WOT going over the hill? The car will stick, but it's very intimidating to do it that way!

Overall, looked pretty solid though! These critiques are tough watching just video and not hearing/feeling how the car is handling and reacting of course.

I'll have to catch up more at PMP in a couple weeks though!

redonblackpony

Hey Bert.
Looks like some nice driving out there on a beautiful track layout.
It appears that your lap times are very consistent. This is a good thing. To get faster you need to clean up your line. Use the entire track and let the car unwind as you get on the throttle. My advice is to find somebody slightly faster than you in a similar car and watch his/her line. Smoothie is always faster than rough and abrupt. If you're fighting the car you're not doing something right. If you miss an apex you will always slow down your lap times.
Are you able to compare your times with others? I learned so much by talking and sharing with other drivers. Nice job. Practice… Practice… Practice

Bert

Thanks guys . . . one of the things I am trying to figure out, is when I am "over driving" ; and what to do about it. I know it is hard to tell from video; but can anyone hear the difference in sound from the tires in some corners versus others? I usually figure that if the tires are squealing a little, I'm getting close; when they start to howl/groan that is probably too far. Does that make any sense?

The difference in sound from turn 2 to turn 4 is a pretty good illustration of what I am talking about.

And then, I'm having a hard time understanding how I can go faster by slowing down; and where that is happening. For example, turns 7/8 is one big understeer semi-skid; I could back off a little but would that really make me quicker?

The tips about hitting the apex every time, and using the full track on track-out, and getting into the gas earlier on track-out are all things that I do understand and can work on.

D, wow, 1:20 is a real good time for Thompson, I have seen very few quicker times than that posted at the SCCA races I have been to there!

dmichaels

Let's chat at Palmer in Oct. It's not necessarily that you want to go slower through the corners, but you want to play with brake timing, throttle use, and steering inputs. As noted above, your times are consistent, so you've got a good feel for the car right now, and now you just have to work on pushing limits and figuring out how to get the car to rotate instead of push. Also the timing for when to initiate a lift throttle to get the nose to bite so you can hop back on the gas and power out of a corner, like turn 7/8.

Going a bit slower through a corner may not end up being faster in all cases, but if you significantly reduce the understeering, it'll save your tires substantially... we're HDPE'ing not racing after all. That said from the guy who blows through tires like they are water Do as I say, not as I do! haha

My lap posted was for some line comparisons only - I was on good tires in that video, so the times are quicker, but it was my line that I wanted to offer as comparison. There are a few spots where you may notice I'm closer to the apex which might have required scrubbing a touch more speed, but it let me get on the gas harder sooner coming out of the corner. So you might have beat me to the apex, but I'd beat you out of the apex and to the next one if that makes sense.

Hope for some nice, cool, sunny & dry weather for 10/18! I have a couple people who have requested I take some laps with them at this point, but if I have opportunity I'll happily hop in with you for some laps as well if it would be helpful!

5.M0NSTER

Hey Bert, nice driving man!

Derek and redonblack already gave you good feedback. You can probably pick up a second ish with using the whole track as mentioned before.
It's a it hard to judge brake zones, but to me it looks like might be some time there. With the XP10/8 combo I find braking very hard but late is the way to go. Like Marker 2 or maybe 3 at the earliest. I am still all in on the gas pedal by the time I hit marker 5.

2 seconds with the exact setup you have would be a huge improvement, as I think you're doing pretty well overall. Good driving!

Sticker tires would shave another 3 seconds or so. And what kind of camber are you running? I am yet to really experience understeer with -2 deg. There is just one hairpin at mid-O where my tires were screaming like yours. And the trick there as Derek mentioned was to lift off the throttle for 1s and get back on the gas. Front settles back down, grips and you can shoot out of the hairpin with more speed.

Bert

Thanks again for the pointers guys . . . .

Yes I do think I have some time to gain in braking. I went to the carbotechs recently and haven't really explored the limits there. I have heard some people talk about "going full ABS" but I thought we really wanted threshold braking, meaning just below the point where the wheels would start to lock and ABS would come on?

Throttle technique to help control the understeer and get the car to rotate does make sense to me, will try that.

I'd be quite happy to shave a second or two off current time . . . also very surprised . . . that's a good goal. It would be great to have someone else -- preferably someone really good -- drive my car and see what they do with it.

My laps are not all as consistent as those on the video. Usually that is due to traffic -- at the events I go to, it is fairly rare to get more than one or two clean laps in a row, without losing time waiting for a point by.

Unfortunately it looks like I won't get another chance to try your suggestions at Thompson until next year! booooo . . . . but Palmer is coming up in less than two weeks . . .which makes me think I should post a Palmer video . . .

dmichaels

If you want, I'll do a couple hot laps in your car at PMP for driving reference. Totally your call and I keep it to 95% for safety. But it's always good to see what another driver can do with the same car. Anyways just over a week till palmer! Hopefully I'll have my new bigger better wing on by then too!

Bert

I was hoping you'd take the bait, LOL . . . yeah that would be great. The liability release applies to other drivers too, right?

I know you have some other obligations on that day, so we'll see how it goes . . . Dave mentioned another instructor that can probably spend some time with me if you are too busy. See you there.

5.M0NSTER

Pro drivers can get the best stopping distance over ABS. But for us almost "semi-pros" I think you want to apply the 80/20 rule and go into ABS within 1s of braking apply. Since we can't switch off ABS in these cars I think the best course of action is to let the weight transfer and go pedal to the floor.

Bert

Here's one from Palmer:

https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/videos/2029762

I guess I can try using ABS, I just don't like that stuttery feeling

dmichaels

Yeah I should have some time. There are some good instructors going that day so I'm sure you'll get some assistance whereneeded!

5.M0NSTER

Hey Bert, good driving man! Save for what I would consider a few "too early" apexes your line looked really good.

I think your braking points were better here too from what I could tell. Well done!

Bert

Thanks 5dot . . .

Yeah, one of the first things they tell you at Palmer, is if you think you are apexing a little too late, you probably need to go a bit later, LOL

So, things to work on:
- hitting the apex
- braking (later where possible)
- accelerating out of turns / tracking out / unwinding sooner

Hoping for good weather on Tuesday, which is very likely my last track day for the year (unless something else come up)

dmichaels

Not to jinx it, but the weather forecast looks good! Keeping fingers crossed... I want great weather too to get some lapping in on sticky tires, for about the first time this season!

Looking fwd to the event. My intermediate student is no longer attending, so I should have some free time through the day.

See you there!