dmichaels

Had a great day at Palmer Motorsports this past Thursday. The video and timing worked all day, and while the first 3 sessions had lots of traffic. But the 4th session opened up as a lot of people left and I got a couple clean laps in

This was the quickest of the day and my quickest at Palmer thus far. Had a friend riding along - it was her first experience at a road course.

5.M0NSTER

Man, you're looking good through all the corners. No wonder you're the instructor

Car sounds awesome too! But when is the track gonna get some grass??

dmichaels

Grass and some curbing please!!

Thanks, I'm by no means a pro but I've got the mustang sorted out reasonably well now. It's a blast at this track!

Bert

There is no grass at Palmer, only rocks and concrete walls, !!!!

I just did the NASA event there last weekend, had a blast. Going back on October 14 with NothEast Track Days for the last event of the year, good lord I hope it doesn't rain!

dmichaels

See you there Bert. I agree on no rain. I don't run my car there if it's wet... Not worth it to me. If it's sunny tho we'll have a great time

Bert

Forecast looks good for Wednesday!

dmichaels

Fun fun day - nice meeting you and driving with you.

dmichaels

Here's a clip from my quick lap of the day. And my new PB

5.M0NSTER

I can honestly say that I would not have been able to do this lap quicker in my car.

Well done sir.

dmichaels

Sure you could! I'm just out there having fun! But thanks it was a nice personal best for me at Palmer. Wicked fun track

Bert

Hey D -- thanks again for the instruction and ride along! I learned a lot and had a lot of fun. Now I know what real braking and cornering feels like, something to shoot for!

5.MONSTER -- I see you have the Potenza S-04 tires, same as I have, except mine are 275/35-19 (on 19x9.5 wheels, same all 4 corners). Do you have any tips on how to get better performance out of those tires? I am basically a novice so not sure what I am feeling, but to me they feel like they "plow" fairly easily and get pretty squishy when heated up. I was as 33.5 psi hot (after short cool down period) and tires were rolling over / scrub marks to the tips of the triangle symbols on the sidewall.

Do you find them to be a decent tack tire?

Thoughts / comments / suggestions?

thanks!

dmichaels

Do you have front and rear sways?

Phillip123

dmichaels great performance! You are entering those corners very smoothly.

Bert

Front and rear sway bars came off a ~2008 GT500 -- they are a bit stiffer than the stock 2010 GT bars.

5.M0NSTER

Hey Bert, congrats on getting out to the track. Sounds like the bug is biting you.

Yes, I use S04s for track duty. I have 5 track days on these now, and I'm pretty happy with them as a track tire. Far better straight line accel/decel and corner grip. Predictable too and they communicate well when you approach the limit of traction.

Yes, they do roll over, but that is more of a function of camber then the tire itself. Also I wonder if your plowing issues have to do with sway bar selection maybe? I think that's why dmichaels was asking

My car had neutral handling with not too much understeer with stock Track Pack suspension and stock Pirelli's, and it maintained it with the S04s. Only time I really get understeer is when I come into the corners too hot and try to crank the wheel (driver error). I'm an intermediate driver, so most of the time I can avoid it, but not always.

Only time they felt kiddish or greasy is when
1) I had them over pressure (mine like to be at 32 PSI cool prior to sessions), or
2) sometimes when I try to overdrive them (coming into corners too fast getting some undesteer before the apex, and oversteer on the exit). This overheats them. If I slow down a little more before the corners and don't slide them around too much they grip well. This is how I get my best lap times.

I have a thread on this tire here:
https://themustangsource.com/forums/...532159/index2/

Hope this helps!

dmichaels

Yeah 5.M that's what I was getting at with sways. The flatten the car in corners but can reduce traction. Understeer in these cars can be controlled with the throttle most times, hence the reason I only put in a stiff front sway which technically increases understeer but I balance it with throttle modulation.

Bert - we didn't get into lift throttle and modulation of the pedal exiting turns much largely cause I had you keep it in sport mode for our session. But hopefully you picked up on some of the throttle usage I used during your laps in m my car.

I put in the stiffer front sway to improve turn in respomse and I had to dial it in by playing with different stiffness settings. I ended up liking it slightly stiffer than oem. I believe in oem rear sway which is fairly soft as it reduces snap oversteer and gives you good control of the rear traction.

5.M0NSTER

Hey dmichaels, perhaps you can simplify it a bit more. Usually understeer is corrected by slowing down (off throttle or on brake). Is this what you mean when you say understeer can be fixed with throttle?

One interesting note I can make is that oversteer can also be fixed with throttle (unless it's power oversteer). If you turn in and your car starts over rotating, getting on the throttle slightly (just enough to transfer the weight to the rear) will fix oversteer issues mid corner.

Bert

Thanks both -- yeah I guess that is it, learning the right corner entry speed and angle and throttle control and all of that.

Derek, I did try to pay attention to what you were doing with the throttle and all, but there was a lot to take in all at once (line, throttle, brakes, gear, etc. etc. etc.) so not sure I really got it.

I guess it really comes down to practice and experience. In the classroom sessions, the instructor suggested that we pick something to work on in our practice sessions. Then he threw out a whole bunch of suggestions, which got a bit overwhelming. I think this is something I can focus on.

About using the throttle to control under / over-steer: yeah I am a bit confused about that too. The normal reaction is to back off on the throttle when understeering, to slow down and reduce the understeer. But I think you can also reduce understeer, and induce oversteer, with MORE throttle. So I guess it is about learning when to do which.

The GT500 sway bars are the same diameter as my stock 2010 GT ones, but they are heavier . . . so they must have a thicker wall. I don't know how much stiffer they are.