5.M0NSTER

I'm getting ready to part take in an HPDE event at Grattan Raceway in Michigan next weekend. I just took a look at the run groups, and there are quite a few Mustangs participating. Couple GTs, couple Boss' and at least 1 V6.

Anyone on here going?

I got a mount for my S4 so I'm going to try to post some pics and a video along with the event review after the fact.

dmichaels

That'll be fun having the other Mustangs out there - interested to hear how you like the tires as well.

Getting excited here to get the car out again... a week from Tuesday. Only aware of 1 other Mustang (2014 GT TP with Koni suspension... basically my twin car), driven by a very nice, knowledgable, experienced guy. Last time out we were running mere tenths apart, so very much looking forward to having some good sessions with him!

Enjoy the event - hope you are able to post a couple videos.

Ever think of trying to get to Watkins Glen? It's a hike, but worth it...

5.M0NSTER

Thank you! I'm stoked. Just have to survive the work week, and then I can let my horses run free.

Sounds like you'll have a blast too. I can imagine it wuld be fantastic to run with a similarly well driven car! That sounds awesome! Enjoy as well and stay safe.

I've been driving on my track wheels/tires for about a month now. Last week I really started hammering on them to get a god burnish, and get some heat cycles on them. In street driving I'm really able to tell there is more grip now. Also that the sidewalls are a bit less stiff. I'll report back after the event.

I've been taking clover leafs at 95% vmax to get the shoulders engaged, and when possible laying down some rubber to get them broken in. Here's a little pic of the latter

As for Watkins, I just mapped it. 7 hour drive. The track layout looks awesome though, so one of these years I'd love to make a road trip out there.

dmichaels

This will be a long week waiting for Friday to roll around huh? I feel the same... next Monday I will not be productive at work.

Looks like you've "shaved" the tires slightly to support better performance this weekend! good thinking :thumpbsup: Hope they do well out there!

Watkins is worth the drive. Its truly a phenomenal track and the Mustangs do so well there. High speed track, and its a blast. Maybe next season try to get there for a 2 day event. I do the Audi Club events every August... still room for this years event too btw!

Have fun - looking forward to seeing videos. Hope you get good weather.

5.M0NSTER

dmichaels, are you still using the Brembo stock rotors? How have they been holding up with the track pads you use? Any sign of wear? I know you have a few more track days on them than I do.

I looked at mine today and I'm pretty convinced last 2 weeks of driving around with my track pads took ~0.3mm off the rotor. This is based on my observation of the slant area at the outer edge of the rotor, between the top of the disk and the area where the pads make contact. I was curious to see what you observed so far.

dmichaels

Yes, I'm on my original rotors. 7500 miles on the car, have had Pagid pads in the rear since ~2000 miles, and just switched them out today actually. The rear rotors have definitely worn, and I am thinking of replacing them prior to my Watkins Glen outing in August.

As for the fronts, I've probably run the track pads for maybe 3500 miles total and there is essentially zero signs of rotor wear. Lots of surface cracking, but no propegating cracking at this point. I've gone through about 2/3 of the Pagid front pads and am not switching them out yet. Although I am bringing the new ones with me to Thompson on Tuesday just incase I need to do a mid-day swap... Fronts are super easy, not so much on the rears. What a pain. But I digress.

In short, on the front Brembo rotors, I absolutely have witnessed zero indications of rotor wear.

The rears, significant rotor wear, however I am confident this is partly due to my mistake when installing the last round of Pagid rear pads. I did not put in the spring clip on the right rear and apparently missed one spring clip on the inner pad on the left rear. The right rears always seemed to drag a bit, which I contribute to the pads not being locked in. Stupid thing, and I can't offer a good reason why I did that. Today, all pads went in with the spring retainers and in my ~30 minute drive to do errands, I saw zero indication of any rubbing while driving. Brake pedal feel was quite a bit better interestingly enough too.

I also just discovered my good friend has access to liquid nitrogen, oxygen, etc and could cryo-treat a set of rotors for me... might try this next time around when I do replace the fronts and rears.

How was today's driving for ya?

5.M0NSTER

Ok, back after a weekend of fun at Gtattan raceway with 3 ***** Racing.

It was a fun event. 3 ***** guys are really cool, and provide you with the opportunity to learn and enjoy yourself on a track with a relaxed atmosphere. It was my first time running with them, and I'll be back for more

Grattan was everything I hoped for and more. It has a jump (literally), it has a lot of twisties, elevation changes, a 3000ft straight a blind, downhill, off-camber left hand turn. The first time going through there was an experience!

It took me a full day to find a line I liked. One of the instructors who also has a Mustang showed me a line which worked great, and the rest of day 1 I was just trying to perfect it and be consistent. The track had new sealer on it, and it was SLIPPERY! That was everyone's biggest complaint. Per recommendation of the instructor, I went full system of, so I only had ABS.

First day went pretty smooth, with just one little bang up. A track built car with no ABS locked up wheels and skid into a guardrail at low speed. Driver was ok,and other than a bent control arm they had the car driving again by the end of day 2.

Day two was a bad day at the track. There were 2 serious crashes. A 2011/12 Boss 302 skid off and hit the guard rail tail first and HARD. Lots of damage to the car, but the driver and passenger were OK. Not sure what happened there, this was Lap 2 of the first session, and we were still under caution. I think it was a case of "cold tires, cod brakes, cold brain". Then one of the instructors had a brake hardware failure at the end of the long straight in his C5 Z06. That's ~140mph with no brakes. He skid the car into a tire wall, flipped over the tires and an embankment and landed upside down in a river. Both him and his passenger were pulled out by emergency personnel, and other than swallowing some water they were fine thank God.

After that, I got to keep practicing, and got faster and faster. I downloaded the trial version of Track Attack app for Android, and watched my times go from 1:45 down to fastest of 1:34.7 per lap, which I think is respectable for an intermediate driver. There was a guy with a 2013 Boss 302 next to me, and he was pretty good at piloting that thing. He said his fastest was 1:33, so I was getting pretty close!

Lots of cool care were there too. So if I wasn't driving, I was drooling over all the other mustangs, corvettes, BMWs, Porches, Panoz' and even a 2013 Viper!

Here's a few pics. I also have some video which I still need to figure out how to upload, and turn right side up! (it's playing upside down in windown media player)

5.M0NSTER

Few more details!

I managed ~132mph on the longest straight. Under heavy braking to get the car down to ~55 or 60 for turn 1 I was quite literally "brake dancing". The tail kept wagging from left to right. I suppose some suspension work may help with that.

For some reason I wasn't as impressed with my brake setup this time as I was on my first outing to Gingerman. Haven't put my finger on why. Still thinking about it. I didn't get fade, but I felt like I have to push the pedal farther than I remember. This made heal-toe downshifts a bit more challenging, but after a few sessions I got used to it. Of course last time I had 3K miles on the car, and the race pads were brand new. This time they had 2mm less lining, and the rotors have 6800 street miles and 200 or so track miles. Plus I swap pads on a stock rotor, so there matching of pad to rotor is not perfect.

Other than that the Mustang did very well. It was very predictable in sliding around, gripped well on corner exits, and stayed planted even over the jump sections where the car was very light, and the motor pulled like a champ. Understeer was the flavor of the weekend for pretty much everyone, which meant slowing down more for corners than I'm used to.

P.S. still trying to rotate the videos so they play correctly before I post them!

dmichaels

Sounds like a great weekend overall

Regarding the brakes - are you using speed bleeders? I just switched back to OEM bleeders from speed bleeder nipples because one apparently was letting air into the caliper and softening up the pedal. Specifically, the right front outer bleed port would have air within a couple laps. No other location would bleed air bubbles... but same experience, the pedal travel would get too long for good heel-toeing.

I haven't brought the car out with the OEM bleeders yet, but will tomorrow and will report back on the difference. HOpefully nice firm pedal all day long.

The sealant on the track makes things interesting - that was the case last time I was out at the newly opened course here. It was grippy, but not like limerock or Watkins grippy. It's a different feel - almost like the pavement was "sweating" in the heat... hoping tomorrow it'll be more grippy and faster!

That's bad about the 'Vette - glad they were OK. Similar thing happened to a guy at VIR that my friend told me about last year. Brakes failed at 155 down the back straight. Had he not had a full cage, it would have been bad... he walked away too. My cage is going in this winter!

Can't wait to see videos!

5.M0NSTER

Enjoy your Track day, and be safe out there!

looking forward to hearing how it went. I used OE bleeders too... how did you know you had air in the system from the one bleeder?

My wife helped with the AV stuff (thank you baby ) and I got at least the first video uploaded. It's a 14 minute video of pretty much the whole session.
Synopsis: Passing a few people, getting passed by a C5 Z06 which was well driven, and at 13:15 the Miata in front of me spins out.

dmichaels

Event today was great. Bested my last best lap by almost 2 seconds! Got the tail really loose once, otherwise pretty un-eventful

I figured out the speed bleeder was letting air in by bleeding and seeing (every session) air coming out of only one bleeder...

Discovered the next weakest link today though - the brake lines. I was getting everything so hot, they were apparently causing a soft pedal mid session. I confirmed this on the drive home... last session pedal was soft, but still powerful braking. Began the drive home, still sort of soft, but by 45 minutes in when everything cooled to ambient, the pedal feel was great. Rock solid again... so SS lines are up next...

I got some awesome video footage playing with another 2014 GT TP driven by a guy I met earlier this year. Excellent driver and great guy. Biggest difference was his NT01 tires vs my Sumitomo HTR Z III's (100 treadwear vs 300). I'll post that seapratel.

5.M0NSTER

I think I'm going to add SS lines to my Christmas wish list as well. Do you know if our cars come with a braided clutch line or Boss low expansion brake lines?

What did you think of the video? Grattan is an awesome track. People say it's Mid Ohio's little brother, since it was designed by the same person.

Also a note on tires. The Bridgestone Potenza S04s did pretty well, thought I can't compare them directly to Piralli's since the track surface here was MUCH different than at Gingerman last year. Gingerman was sand paper like, while Grattan was more asphalt. Everyone complained about how slippery the track felt. I was sliding around A LOT the first few sessions, until I figured out just how slow I have to enter the corners.

But I did notice a lot more grip on corner exists compared to last year. I was able to go to full throttle sooner than last year, and the tail end seemed to be more planted. The tires also wore very well. I was quite happy with that. No chunking, just a little molten rubber on the shoulders, and only ~1 mil or so of thread loss. So they are in much better shape than the Pirellis were.

dmichaels

I'm pretty sure we don't have a SS clutch line. Not sure if it's the same "low expansion" line as the Boss though... hope so

that looks like a very technical track. one or two very blind corners and the jump (!) looks interesting! Seems like a momentum course, not a lot of hard braking or hard acceleration aside from the main straight? More trying to keep up speed through every corner? Kind of reminded me of NYST that I got out to last year... only one real braking zone to speak of, otherwise flowing corners and trying to keep speed up. Looked like a pretty good line through your laps. I only saw one or two corners where I think I'd try to hit them differently. Would have to watch a couple more times to tell you which corners (wasn't counting... it's late...).

But looked smooth and quick and fun. Miata had a little oops... seemed like he must have tapped the brakes in the corner to spin? did not like like power oversteer... well done controlling the Mustang through that course though!!

Good the tires were good and did not chunk. I have chunking in all 4 of my track tires now, but it's not too bad. They are holding up well otherwise! No complaints for a total cost of like $500.... next year hoosiers are coming though

5.M0NSTER

Thank you sir!

You are correct. It is a technical course for sure.Yeah, the back end with all the twisties is a momentum section for sure. But the other half is good for hard acceleration, plus there are at least 4 corners where you can accelerate as hard as you think the tires will allow you while maintaining ~0.6g lat.

I thin I know which 2 corners you're talking about. Later on in the day I modified my line through corners 1 (after the long straight), and after the jump (corner 5). In both cases I stayed further to the outside to get a better angle at turn in. It worked out better, and I have another video with that line but it's too long for youtube? It's 16 minutes. Still trying to figure it out. I know it worked better for turn 1 because by the time I get to turn 2 I was topping out 3rd gear. And I was able to carry more speed through turn 5. In this video my best lap was 1:35, and after adjusting the line I shaved another second off.

As for the Miata, I think it was his line, and he was still braking at turn it. I tried trail braking in that corner as well, and got sideways a few times. This was the Off-camber downhil, blind left turn. The more outside you stay through that corner, the more off camber it gets. So the trick was to stay tucked inside the turn. I noticed the Miata had a really wide line through there, so I backed off and gave him more room. Sure enough, the back end couldn't handle it. He was fine with no damage to the car. I checked in on him after.

5.M0NSTER

Apropos braking... This track is no too heavy on brakes save for the main straight. There are only 2 hard braking sections. Turn 1 and Turn 10. The nice thing is they are on the opposite ends of the track, so there is plenty of times to let the brakes cool off in between. But you are hard on the brakes in both. Turn 1 was a 130-60mph or so for me, and turn 10 was 85-30 mph or so.

Here is track map which I found helpful too.
http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Grattan_Raceway_Park

5.M0NSTER

Here is a vid of my last session. I also tried to push deeper into the brake zones, and harder out of corners. I got more loose in these session, but I got my best lap time by ~1.2s.

JScottGT

5.Monster, it was great meeting you, and there were A LOT of Mustangs at this event. I have been running with the 3Balls crew for close to 10 years now, and I don't run with any other group anymore. Grattan is by far the best track in MI. It really does give you a little of everything. That could be why the local OEM's like to use it for development work. A 1:35 is a very respectable time on street tires. I have been able to manage a PB of 1:28.3 on the conti slicks I was running, but at the previous visit to the track. The new sealer made conditions real slick, especially first thing Saturday morning. It did get better in the afternoon where I managed a 1:31.2.
A little update on the Z06 - he was one of our fellow instructors, and consistently runs a 1:24 with his car. They got the car back to the shop and it appears the master cylinder failed. He had ZERO brakes entering T1, which is usually near 140 in that car. Luckily both he and his passenger were in a full race seat, with harnesses, and HANS. It was a bit scary seeing the car upside down in the water though. Both he and his passenger were able to get the harnesses undone (cam lock design) and turned over inside the car so they could breathe. The track owner was the first to respond and was able to get the door opened to help them out.
I'm glad they are both okay, and it has been a wake up call for me to up my level of safety equipment in my car. Starting with next season I will be coming back with at least a decent bolt-in 4-point bar, harnesses, and new helmet.

5.M0NSTER

Hey Scott, it was great meeting you as well. 3 ***** is a great group to run with. I had a lot of fun, and the atmosphere was most relaxed I've seen yet. Plus I feel like I learned a thing or two about driving, and my car thanks to instructors like you. Thank you for taking me out in your car and showing me the line. I really think it helped me a lot.

Wow 1:28.3 seems crazy FAST! 1:31.2 is quick as well given how slippery that sealer was! My best was 1:34.7 on my loud street tires, haha. I'm sure I'll chip away at it my next visit to Grattan. And I'll be back for sure. I know 3 ***** has one more weekend there in September. If I'm not at that event, I'll be there next season for sure!

Good call on more safety equipment. I was so relieved to see those guys just walk away from the crashes like it was no big deal. At the end of the day that's what matters. Everything else is broken glass and bent metal.

Thanks again for all your help and advice, and see you at another 3 ***** event

Joeywhat

I really need to make it out to Grattan next year... My buddy races his subie out there a few times a year.

5.M0NSTER

Hey Joey, there were a few WRXs and BRZs at this event as well. There was a V6 Mustang there too. Grattan is a lot of fun, and 3 ***** makes it easy for people of all experience levels to enjoy themselves. I think you'd have a blast. There aren't that many places we get to experience our cars to the fullest. This is one of them. Do you live close by?