BA Mustang

Ok so my 67 isn't allowed to be kept in a garage so it has to sit outside day and night. I have swirls all over the car and I know there is etching going on as well. What could I use to get rid of those? I hate seeing them on it.

MarcHarris

Man... so many questions, so little information. Paint type? Lacquer? Single-stage enamel? Base/Clear?
How is she kept outside?
Is your car clayed?
How often do you wash her / clear her / wax her?

BA Mustang

Base/clear, it just sits out under the sun with no car cover. It's my daily driver. I have clay bared it about twice this year and I wax it about once every month or two, wash is about every 2 weeks.

MarcHarris

I see. I'd first recommend you switch to a sealant with a thin layer of carnauba wax over it. Sealants are synthetic products (I've seen them marketed as tech wax, synthetic wax, nano wax, polish, etc) and as a whole have much better slickness and durability over waxes. Products like Blackfire Wet Diamond, Menzerna USA Powerlock, Chemical Guys JetSeal109, Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0, Zaino Z2, and Optimum Opti-Seal are all sealants I'd recommend looking into.

Wax gets its name from actual wax (carnauba, bees, montan, etc) in it. While not as durable or as slick as sealants, they tend to resist etching based damage in my experience much better. Products like any of the Dodo Juice brand waxes, Natty's, etc are all great products. There's a lot of quality waxes on the market, just make sure you're getting a carnauba based wax (the hardest natural wax) for the best etching resistance.


Use your favorite sealant 3 or 4 times a year, and add a layer of wax to your car 4-6 times a year for the best protection. Remember: wax over sealant, not sealant over wax. Do this and I think you'll find your car will stay cleaner longer. Also remove any bird crap or sap ASAP. Bird bombs can be removed with quick detailer and microfiber towel, while sap might need a general adhesive remover to help convince it to come off.

BA Mustang

Awesome, thanks!

BA Mustang

Is there anything I can use to get rid of the current etching on the car? Other than cutting and buffing.

MarcHarris

It depends on the type of etching. Hard water spots will leave mineral residue on the surface - you can even feel it and tell your paint isn't smooth. When this is the case, you can use products like Chemical Guys Water Spot remover, which is an acid based product that causes the minerals to break down in the gel so that they can be removed from the finish. If the spots you see aren't raised (they'll feel smooth), then the damage has actually etched into the finish and the finished must be polished to remove the damage. In some cases, wet-sanding is needed to remove etching damage if the damage is deep enough. In the even the damage goes all the way through the clear-coat, or even most of the way through, there's nothing that can be done and to remove the damage would require a respray of affected panels.

You'll have to figure out what caused the damage and whether is just on the surface, or if more aggressive measures need to be taken. Beware of sprinklers, bird-bombs, and bugs - they'll all potentially cause major damage to your finish.

BA Mustang

They pretty much all seem to be the hard water spots.

Looks like I will be ordering all of this today.

1999 Black 35th GT

Good suggestions! I agree. I can vouch that Wolfgang DGS 3.0 is fantastic. My personal favorite right now. I would like to add Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze. I have not used it myself but I have heard that it easily last up to a year. It doesn't have a nice of a look as the others but since your car is outside all of the time it may be a good choice.

Also, if you would like an over the counter sealant, Megs Ultimate Wax is a great option.

tetstang

so.. to accomplish the above properly, must the previous application of wax be removed? Or, does exposure to the elements and car washing basically remove the wax, say after 3 or 4 months? Does claying remove wax and sealant?

MarcHarris

If you want to apply so you get max durability and protection, you'll want to strip the old stuff. After 3 or 4 months, you likely have very little remaining. One popular option is to wash using dish soap such as Dawn as these are powerful and meant to clean, degrease, and sanitize. Of course by the time you're finished clay, you'll likely have no old protection remaining.

Clay has the ability to strip your surface of many things, and I surely wouldn't think any wax or sealant will hold up fine to the slightly abrasive nature of a clay bar.

tetstang

Okay...now I'm curious about washing liquids for cars. I have used Shaklee Basic H for years (all-purpose enviro friendly detergent), both for washing cars and house windows. It's drips off clean (depending on the quality of the tap water), and doesn't leave films or residues. I then chamois dry. Water beads up on the finish for about 4 months after a wax.

I've tried a couple of "car wash" liquids, includng Megquiars, and they don't rinse off clean, and seem to leave oily films. I tried them because of the warnings I've heard about non-"car wash" liquids being bad for the finish. They are also much more $$.

So....what to use?

BA Mustang

Finally got around to ordering the waxes. Just ordered Zaino Z-2, Z-5, Chemical Guys butter wet wax, and Meguiars Ultimate Compound.

MarcHarris

This is an excellent question and I apologize for leaving you hanging and not replying earlier.

You need to use a dedicated car wash soap AKA car wash shampoo. The reasons are quite simple.

Most soaps and detergents are made for specific purposes. Their chemistry is designed to achieve certain goals, which are based around what they're made for. Dish soap is made to clean, degrease, and sanitize. This is the reason it's not what you want to use on your car: it's WAY too strong. It strips wax/sealant off your paint in a single wash - remember this is made to degrease and sanitize after all. You don't need a sterile surface so you can truly eat off your paint, and that's exactly how car wash soap is designed: as gentle as possible to not strip off all of your protection, strong enough to remove dirt. There's a fine balance.

Here's the issue I most often see that's a problem in how car wash shampoo's are normally used: they're not measured out correctly.
When a manufacturer designs a car wash shampoo so that it has enough cleaning power without cleaning TOO well (and thus removing your sacrificial layer of wax/sealant), they're making a product that's meant to be diluted in water. If you dilute the soap too weak, you're lacking cleaning power, sudsing ability (which suspends dirt and debris from your paint making it easier to remove), and lubrication (lubricating agents are used to make things glide off your paint easier which equates to lowering the risk of scratches and swirls). On the other hand, if you use too strong of a dilution of your car wash shampoo, you risk prematurely stripping your wax/sealant, leaving behind too much soap residue on your finish which may leave it looking more cloudy / less optically clear, and you waste more product than you should (in essence; you rip yourself off).

The majority of car wash soaps you'll find are made with directions to dilute the product 128:1, so one ounce of shampoo into a gallon of water. If you're like me, you're using two 5-gallon buckets with Grit Guard inserts. Each bucket is filled with about 4 gallons of water, which means one bucket needs 4 ounces of shampoo if using a 128:1 soap.
Some soaps are a bit more concentrated and use 64:1, so half an ounce per gallon / 1 ounce for every two gallons of water. My favorite shampoo (Dodo Juice Supernatural Shampoo, which I consider the best on the market) dilutes 1200:1 as the company doesn't add any "filler" agents to the formula (nor do they add any color or fragrance in order to make it as pure and good working as possible).

Now imagine the disservice you're doing by not measuring your soap. Either not getting enough cleaning power, or you're wasting product. In the case of my favorite soap listed above, wasting product is wasting a good amount of money as it's fairly expensive for it's size (a small 250ml bottle is about $25). If you use that particular shampoo correctly, the cost per use isn't much more expensive than other shampoos on the market however.

I hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions.

tetstang

Marc,

Thanks for the great reply. I understand the theory, for sure, which is why I have tried car shampoos before. Measured the proper amount, and if anything, stinngy on the ratio. Clean buckets and equipment. The Mequiars left and awful oily film, and even made the towel feel slimmy. It was a pain. Maybe the oil was the "lubricating" action... but...yucky. And streaked my black plastic too.

I would think Mequiars would be a good choice, but maybe not. Besides, DoDo Juice, do you have any other off the shelf recommendations.

TS

MarcHarris

TS,
You likely experiences residue from the shampoo actually. Many shampoos (especially true with over the counter ones) have gloss enhancing agents built it to try to make your car look even better. Of course not all are created equal, and if you have hard water or washed in the sun / humidity, can be affected by other things.

Meguiar's Gold Class has been popular forever, and I've found Meguiar's NXT shampoo to not be too bad as well. You might want to look into some other products that have had a good amount of "buzz" like the Turtle Wax "Ice" line, or something that specifically states it's meant to rinse easily. Because you've noticed and had bad experience with residue, I wouldn't recommend any "wash and wax" products or anything that marketed to do anything but clean. When you're ready to make an online purchase, there's a whole no world available from things like Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Clear, to Swissvax Auto Bath, to Zymol Shampoo, to Dodo Juice Supernatural or Born to be Mild, or Sour Power, 1Z shampoo, and a LONG list of others known to be quality.

tetstang

Marc,

Thanks for the thourough replies. I'll do some research and try something new in the car shampoo realm. I just claybarred and used Blackfire wet diamond on my blue metallic Duramax, and really like the results. Easy to work with, too. Blackfire is kinda spendy, and I can see that one bottle won't go too far. That's okay if it works well.

Best,
TS

phillies4752

Wax turtle has always done the job for me

MarcHarris

If you're already in the mindset of claying and using a real nice sealant like Blackfire, then you're on the right track and will see the benefit from other top products as well.
One bottle of Blackfire should last a VERY long while. We've used it on nearly a dozen and a half cars this year and I don't think we used 1/4 a bottle. Keep in mind with products like this, less it truly more. Apply it as thin as humanly possible. Trust me on this. Thinner is better. You'll get a better bond, better slickness, better durability, and better clarity. Apply it thicker, and you'll get the opposite.

tetstang

Will do.