It is hard to argue with this opinion - As I would agree the stuff from the factory today is pretty stout however the numbers do tell the story. The biggest problem with todays Fords are the spring style connectors that go from the coil to the Plug - in a word - They SUCK. If anyone questions and thinks to coils are "fine" just purchase our wire only kit and keep the stock coils

 

Hey JR would you entertain the thought of selling me some at discount and I'll have Brenspeed do an independent test. If they don't produce any noticeable hp/tq increase (say, > 10hp) will you accept them as a return with NO restocking fee, etc.?

 

Is there a COP for the GT500 yet?

 

I would agree that Ford's COP connectors don't look like anything special but when you're dealing with voltages that high a little extra resistance really isn't going to make any sort of measurable difference provided they are on good shape. I could however see better quality connectors working better after a few years of service as the Ford ones look like they may be prone to a structural failure in time.
I think I'd be interested in a set of better quality connectors if the price was right.

 

Goofy talk? In the words of Samuel Jackson; "Well...allow me to retort!"

I am the guy who posted that thread on MF. I wasn't going to step in here but now I just can't stand it anymore.

I never bashed your product or slandered your reputation so I really don't appreciate you hiding your "goofy talk" opinion on this matter in another forum that I guess you figured I didn't subscribe to. I merely stated my own personal, factual experiences for others to read to which you seemed genuinely concerned.

Now, in case you weren't listening the first time, your COP's robbed me of 114.1 RWHP and 51.68 RWTQ to be exact. And to say that there must be something else wrong with my car is rediculous. I am no brain surgeon but I also don't have to be the smartest guy around to make one dyno pull with your COP's and one dyno pull with the stock COP's and compare the two numbers (note the 35 minutes between pulls)...wouldn't you agree? But, I was certainly not a lone witness to this, nor do I have a dyno in my back yard. This was done at Lamatta Performance in Longwood, FL by Jake himself and Mike Schimmack of Superchips at the datalogging helm.

And to also say that they were installed wrong...well, I guess the only thing I will say to that is that they were sent back to the company who manufactures them for you and found one to be faulty. Not improperly installed!

Now, these COP's may work for some people...that I never argued. But, in my 2 experiences with them; one worked to the tune of 1hp on my friends supercharged Saleen and the other...well, you know how that turned out.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/a...orses-mike.pdf

 

I bought a set of the GMS coils in April 2006.
They definately gave a seat of the pants improvement on my stock motor.
I added a KB and they ran fine until June 2006 at which time one failed.
This coil failure robbed the motor of power (there is your 114 HP loss) because it was only running on seven cylinders. GMS replaced it and they ran good until July 2006 (one more month) at which time another coil failed. This one was replaced by the manufacturer under warranty.
However I put back on the stock coils. I immediately started experiencing spark blow-out on the stock coils. I changed to HT0 plugs and gapped down and that seemed to fix the spark blow-out for the most part. I found the higher PSI the more likley you will have blow-out on the spark plugs.
I still have the GMS coils in a box but have reservations about using them, as I don't want a failure at the track while under load.
Trust me when a coil goes dead on a blown car it sounds like you blew an intake valve or something.

I have no doubt that the 60,00 volt coils add power and they definately resolve spark blow-out on forced induction. I am concerned about the quality of the coil itself because two failures in two months does not seem very good.
Now if Mr. Granatelli would exchange my set for a new set of COPS, I would be willing to try them again. I purchased mine from Performance Center who has no return policy I can take advantage of.
So my GMS COPS are sitting in their original box in the garage.

 

That's what I'm afraid of, a product failure.

 

I meant no disrepct to anyone but I still hold to my word - it is goofy to loose 100plus HP. Any tuner would know that.

 

We do have a totally new version - and we are happy to exchange them

 

+1 I bought a set from LFP. Now I don't know if these are supposed to be original GMS COPs or if they are some hybrid that you are talking about. I saw the posts about the failures and talked to some others that are making some big numbers on the stock COPs so I pulled mine back out. I have 4,000 miles on the car and maybe 1,000 on the COPs. They are sitting in my garage in the original boxes.

How do I know if these are really GMS COPs? They were purchased in June 06 so they probably are not the new improved ones correct? Is there a way I can do a trade-up to the new COPs? What are the improvements? Do they fit better? Mine didn't feel like they fit very well, they didn't seem to sturdy where you screw them down. I did read of other's experience where they tightened them down too much for that reason and broke the tab. I was careful with the torque wrench and didn't exceed it although they felt loose. For me at the top end of the dyno, the HP and TQ started bouncing and my guess was it was spark related (w/HT0 @ 0.030).

I'm not convinced that the MSDs would be any better or worse and I didn't want red... I was actually considering the KB boost-a-spark, just haven't decided what I want to do. -Joe

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

+1 I bought a set from LFP. Now I don't know if these are supposed to be original GMS COPs or if they are some hybrid that you are talking about. I saw the posts about the failures and talked to some others that are making some big numbers on the stock COPs so I pulled mine back out. I have 4,000 miles on the car and maybe 1,000 on the COPs. They are sitting in my garage in the original boxes.

Come on everyone – The sky is not falling and the world is not coming to an end. We have over 1100 sets of coils out there (8800 individual parts) and 98% of those are Perfect. Granted there were a few customers that had issues but look at how many have reported 1000’s of trouble free miles and very notable power gains – especially with nitrous and forced induction. The real issue with the customer coils has been there own installation short comings. I know coming from me that sounds like a cop out but it is true. 70% of the coils that have been returned tested PERFECT. We believe the problem lies in the installation of the stainless ropes included in our kit. The factory uses a slinky looking spring which is very forgive. While it does not transfer energy to the plug like our ropes, they do touch ever so slightly and sometimes that is all it takes. When installing our coils and ropes, it only takes a few extra minutes to make sure you have a solid connection to EACH plug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

+1 I bought a set from LFP. Now I don't know if these are supposed to be original GMS COPs or if they are some hybrid that you are talking about. I saw the posts about the failures and talked to some others that are making some big numbers on the stock COPs so I pulled mine back out. I have 4,000 miles on the car and maybe 1,000 on the COPs. They are sitting in my garage in the original boxes. -Joe

This is a perfect example – there is no problem with the coils but because he read about someone elses issue he assume he should take his off too??. Granted there are guys making good power with stock coils but that does not mean they can’t make even more power with our units. I know guys that make 1000hp with a stock block and no filler but that does not mean it is the best way to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

How do I know if these are really GMS COPs? They were purchased in June 06 so they probably are not the new improved ones correct? Is there a way I can do a trade-up to the new COPs? What are the improvements? -Joe

LFP is a deal for GMS so I will assume you got GMS coils. Chances are you have the original design coils but that is not a bad thing. Like any company we constantly strive to build better parts. We changed the way we wind the coils, changed the tooling process and did a better job of explaining how to slightly adjust the cable length – here it is again http://67.199.19.45/pdf/manuals/manual66.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

Do they fit better? Mine didn't feel like they fit very well, they didn't seem to sturdy where you screw them down. I did read of other's experience where they tightened them down too much for that reason and broke the tab. I was careful with the torque wrench and didn't exceed it although they felt loose. -Joe

There was nothing wrong with the fit before. The reason guys were breaking ears for a while was because they were putting taller plugs in the heads and not adjusting for that in the ropes – hence the reason we came out with the supplemental instruction to explain how to make the ropes longer and shorter. Guys that break coils ears are just not paying attention when they are tightening. Plain and simple. You are screwing a brittle fiber plastic part to a much harder surface – PAY ATTENTION. If you torque them down then they should not be loose. Truth be told, I don’t even run the screws in mine, you don’t really need then. The boots hold then on just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

For me at the top end of the dyno, the HP and TQ started bouncing and my guess was it was spark related (w/HT0 @ 0.030).

MSD coils are barely 25kv. They put out half what ours do and they don’t come with the patented ropes. In fact MSD coils are really not much better then a stock red coil if there were such a thing. No knock on MSD as they have been very good to me but in this case we do compete and the facts remain that our parts are far superior. A KB boost a spark only helps confirm you get max voltage INTO THE COIL. It can’t make a stock coil output more then perhaps 25kv which is the same as a set of ACCEL or MSD coils.

Joe – I am happy to look at your parts but I am sure you are fine. My door is always open. Lastly if a customer has a problem with 1 coil on a stock car they only change the one bad coil. However with the GMS coils if a customer has a coil issue rather then take the time to figure out the issue like which coil is in question they just take them all off because we always try to accommodate them. Al to often when we tech a customer we simple ask them to change the positioning on the coils and they report the problem is gone. That just means they did not have a good connection in the first place

 

Joe, I didn't attack you or Granatelli, no need to be a condescending *****. You could simply address the questions professionally. Now I'll reply in kind...

You say you have 1,100 sets of coils out there, how many sets do you still think are installed and running in those cars? I didn't simply pull mine out because 1 person had problems, I pulled them out because there LOTS of people reporting problems with these coils. You talk about 1,000s of trouble free miles on some cars, coils SHOULD last for 10s of thousands of trouble free miles.

Sounds like a weakness in your dessign to me but you can try to justify it all you want. Maybe your redesign addresses this weakness? I did notice the boots look different on your new coils. Maybe the boots and the ropes have been redesigned.



If you would have read my post more closely, you'd see I didn't have a problem with fit because my plugs were too long, I am using the HT0 plugs. The problem I had is it felt like the boot didn't sit firmly on the plug. After torqueing them down, they didn't feel solid. You can't push down any more because of the stop. If you're now going to tell me I should have adjusted the rope longer, I'll retort with YOU should have adjusted the rope longer. It should at least leave your factory to fit a stock application without having to be pulled apart and adjusted. Maybe another design issue... As far as the mounting point, it's nice that even you describe the mounting ear as a "brittle fiber plastic part", you know how this will be installed, possibly another design weakness.

Looking at my set of coils is not necessary. I'm sure the coils would test to be fine. I was a little concerned about the top end of my dyno, I'm not an expert but it looked to me like it could be spark related issue. My biggest concern is failure. I'd rather run with a stock coil that is designed for 10s of thousands of miles use rather than ones that I can hope for 1,000s of mile of use maybe, then have to deal with any potential problems from a failure. -Joe

 

was the question about the independent test answered by Granatelli? I didn't see it

 

JR how do I send my old GMS COPs back to exchange for the new ones?
Four failures seems high to me but I am willing to try replacments because I like the performance before they failed.

 

Best bet is to call me at the office directly - 805-486-6644 ext 11 thanks J.R. And I agree 4 out of 8 is bad

 

Just read through this thread, and I was wondering just how much cash these guys were blowing on the coil packs only to take them off and leave them laying around their garage.

$920.00!!!!
MY GOD MAN!

one born every minute i guess. I think if I layed out 9 large one some snake oil coil packs and they didn't work I would return them like the old lady in the discount tire commercial... THROUGH THE WINDOW!

I picked up 5-7 HP by removing the pre-cat in my intake. That was free. good thing I didn't have a supercharger...woulda picked up 40 horses.

to each his own.

/Rant

carry on.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

Joe, I didn't attack you or Granatelli, no need to be a condescending *****. You could simply address the questions professionally. Now I'll reply in kind...

Sorry – I DID NOT MEAN TO COME OFF AS CONDESCENDING. Perhaps because I used your statements as quotes you took it more personally. I am merely trying to say we have a ton of very happy customers and if 1 coil has an issue that does not mean the rest are bad. Conversely most of what is deemed as bad is actually improper installation more then not. I also stated we are working on a way to help avoid that potential issue in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

You say you have 1,100 sets of coils out there, how many sets do you still think are installed and running in those cars?

Most of them – if not all. These numbers do not reflect our fleet business either. We sell hundreds of coils to shops look to do simple repair work and replace bad “out of warranty” coils

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

I didn't simply pull mine out because 1 person had problems, I pulled them out because there LOTS of people reporting problems with these coils. You talk about 1,000s of trouble free miles on some cars; coils SHOULD last for 10s of thousands of trouble free miles.

And again you had no trouble with your coils either. I am quoting fact not fiction. I am sure the guys that purchased coils from us 2 years ago have way more then 10k miles by now. – My point was simple and clear. When you look at how many are sold versus the few that call back…we are doing great…now look at what comes back and factor in the 70% of the returns had no problem and it came down to installation errors and we look golden. It is easy for us to point the finger at the other guy and that is not our intension but think about this…these coils have been tested by just about every magazine and website out there. They ALL reported great things. So it seems like when qualified guy do the install (such as yourself) the problem generally do not exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbailer

Sounds like a weakness in your design to me but you can try to justify it all you want. Maybe your redesign addresses this weakness? I did notice the boots look different on your new coils. Maybe the boots and the ropes have been redesigned.

Boots are the same but again we did make the ropes more user friendly.

[quote=jbailer;1051356] If you would have read my post more closely, you'd see I didn't have a problem with fit because my plugs were too long; I am using the HT0 plugs. The problem I had is it felt like the boot didn't sit firmly on the plug. As far as the mounting point, it's nice that even you describe the mounting ear as a "brittle fiber plastic part", you know how this will be installed, possibly another design weakness.
We sell our coils to almost every auto parts store you can image as replacement parts. Our coils come with a 1 year unlimited mileage warranty – that is better then factory

 

I did not see the question - but the answer is simple. These coils have been independantly tested on 2v, 3v and 4v cars

here was an independant dyno test http://www.gmsvideos.com/video_detail.php?mId=1523

 

I agree and that is why we offer a money back offer.

 

JR, I reread your post a couple times before I replied wanting to make sure I didn't mistake what was written. One problem with written communications is it's difficult to convey mood very accurately however there are some things that make it easier like the use of caps and bold lettering. If you are saying you didn't intend the reply as it is written, then I'm sorry for my response.

Now back to business. I am very sure my current coil packs are not bad, they just ran on a dyno at 478 whp which is very close to what I was expecting right before I deinstalled them in April. My concern is failure. You mentioned you changed the way you did the coil windings. I was an electronic technician for 10 years and understand these concepts pretty well so I'm curious was there a problem with the old method that was causing the windings to short together leading to the failures and that's why they were changed? If so, is there a way I can swap my older style for the newer style? Also, does the design change of the ropes address the connection to the plugs better? I'm not talking about the ability to adjust the length of the rope, just the seating onto the plugs. Thanks -Joe