05GT-O.C.D.

I agree 100%. The cop must be undercover to get the evidence.
I feel that when possible, a uniformed officer should be there to participate in the actual arrest.

JessicaRabbitt

Scary... I wont be going to Alabama... if all it takes to get a CCW is $25.

I am going for my CCW. I am also training to work as Dignitary Protection.

Those guys in thier ski masks are also wearing vests. So, unless you all are great shots with bleary vision and being woken up at 3am, I think your walls are in more danger than that cop is.

When the criminals star behaving with more decorum I think we can expect our LEOs to all dress appropriately as well.

To answer one of the questions ( I Have lots of family in the service, and my childhood neighbor was a higly decorated UC Sheriff for LA, CA) Why do ALL the cops have to be in "costime"? (My quote)

It is actually really simple. Bad guy gets stung by LEO undercover. Bad guys buddies are a block away and see it go down... Its harder to pin a longhaired loser looking guy when you see him the next day then it is to spot a longhaired unshaven guy in a uniform. I dont think I am explaining it correctly. LOL

Keeping all the UC guys UC during the raids is better to protect thier street identities. If they are never seen in unirform, its much easier for them to make stings later down the road.

The Rock 326

That's exactly it. Most of the raids done in masks are for the protection of the UC officer.

For entries, or any other type of take down, it is the officers burden to identify him/herself as law enforcement, while in plain clothes. This issue has come up lately with "off-duty" officers responding to assist other officers, and being shot by uniformed officers. I personally make it a point to be known that I am a Police officer.

As far as officers not in uniform stopping cars, it is a departmental thing. We don't do it, we call for a marked unit to stop a vehicle. I fully understand the thing about u/c cars with lights in the dash being of concern. We had a rash of "impersonators" here. That's one reason we DON'T attempt to make traffic stops with u/c cars.

I would like to note that,I am for people carrying their own personal protection, and protecting their homes,property, and themselves!.

Hopefully this will help clear up some of your concerns/questions.

{quote}Thanks for your post, and thank you for your public service - Stay safe. {quote}-
You're welcome!

The Rock 326

It's only $7.50 in our county!

GottaHaveIt

I think that with all the early morning raids that have gone awray because some BONE-HEAD did not do his homework and that if someone entered my bedroom in the wee hours they are going to get Zapped but some. One good reason I'd totally feel comfortable doing that would be that they have No dog gone buisness there in the first place and if it were trival serve a warrent , if I were a known terorist that would be kinda differnt scene all together, so I guess they can be damned if they do and damned if they don't and remember most these people rely on Good intel and take orders They also have familys. My 4.5 cents.Ed

Treadhead

For starters you are not gonna get arrested for asking for a "date". There usually has to be specific words and a deal struck for money. The other officers will at the very least have nice shiny badges somewhere on them(belt or around neck).

Next, black masks, hoods or balaclava's are worn to keep identities secret. Drug dealers and such don't usually like what is happening to them nor the people doing it. So it's kinda nice to not have to worry about that dealer or his buddies knowing what you look like. You won't get dead in front of your family when they recognize you at the mall or wherever they happen to see you.

No knock warrant service is really the only way to get any usable evidence before it gets flushed or destroyed and as said before the words"Police" and "search warrant" are yelled the entire time until the house is secure. If it's dark and you are groggy then you won't see a regular uniform any better than a tactical type anyway. Also, standing outside the door yelling and knocking the door at a dope house is a good way to get shot. Some dealers really don't like the police. Been there done that, as they say. Had trouble getting thru some burglar bars one time and made our "Police" anouncement before we got in so they would know it's us and not dope house robbers. Dealer with his AK was there waiting and I'll leave it at that(none of us got hurt). Hope that helps explain it some.

Scothew

Sorry April, no offense towards you, but the mentality in your post regarding this is more than slightly disturbing. It almost sounds like you are bragging or gloating about having a pistol close to you and the pretentions in your mind that you would use it. I dont doubt you would use it, but in a situation like what has been described here, unless you are a trained individual or amazingly calm under fire (no pun intended), I dont think you will remotely have a chance to be coherent enough to even reach for it, let alone focus, aim and fire.

I guess all I am trying to preach is gun responsibility. Even someone who enjoys guns to their fullest extent wont go around with the mentality that they are 10ft tall and bullet proof because they have a gun and know how to work it.

Sorry just my thoughts. I hope it didnt come across the wrong way as I mean no harm. If I worded it right, hopefully my intentions to have you (or anyone else who may have thought this) to take a step back and realize the great responsibility you are talking about and maybe gain a higher appreciation for it. Take it coming from someone who has been taught gun saftey and proper useage (handling and shooting) his whole life since he could hold a .22 up. Alot of my family is/was LEO and my best friends are LEO, The Rock 326 included. Its something I just feel strongly about.

Scothew

well I guess I killed this thread huh?

UA2k1GT

good job Fluffy!


jk.

i must say, that a lot of people think by carrying a gun, they are invincible and can handle themselves in any situation. they'll say if someone pulls a gun on them, they'll shoot them dead.

but in many cases you're better off not even pulling it out because as soon as you do, you'll get shot.

and the adrenaline and anxiety you'd feel sure wouldn't help your aiming. i mean when I saw my first turkey hunting this spring, my heart starting beating so fast and I had tunnel vision. and that was just a turkey, not a human.

svopaul

I agree....I have a concealed carry permit (only $15 in my county) and I carry. I have been in situations where if I had been your average off balance redneck, I might have pulled my gun.....but I am not that way and understand the responsibility of being a Gun owner and carrying one. You can't(and I don't) go around feeling like I am invincible or will just "cap" someone if they act up.....but I would defend myself or my wife if I was in fear for my life. I can't say how I would react or how well I would shoot because I have not been faced with that situation(and hope I never am!!!) but you can't just sit back and say "I'd shoot them as they come in the house at 3AM). A tactical team would move so fast that you would likely not have a chance to grab a gun and if you did you would probably get shot yourself. A theif or criminal will move much slower compared to a tac team.

I have a lot of good friends how are LEO's....Rock is also one of them and a few are Tactical Team members. I can say that they are not going to do a full tactical assault on your house without GOOD reason and proper setup....it just doesn't happen that way....so if you are a law abiding citizen, you have NO worries about Police dressed in black with masks performing an assault on you or your house.

As far as the date thing goes....never going to happen unless you specifically agree to a price in exchange for sex. There isn't any grey area there...either you attempt to solicit or you don't....period.


I also saw in that '05 area thread where someone stated "If the cops come into my house in black with guns and ski masks, I will shoot them and there is nothing they can do about it"....that is about the dumbest statement I have EVER heard! and to that I say Good luck with that....enjoy your funeral or prison sentence.

The bottom line is that if a full tactical team assaults your house to take you into custody then you most likely have been doing sometning or are involved in something illegal that warrants that action. If not you have nothing to worry about.

I had this happen to an old friend that I grew up with....He is a Desert Storm veteran and we shared a house in Western, MD years ago while I was in college...I graduated and moved out....he stayed. Over a year later He got involved with some people and drugs were involved...then stored and dealt out of that house....he was the recipient of such a tactical assault....he was a trained fighter by the US Army and did the smart thing and didn't resist...he also did some time in Jail for his association. No point other here other than if you are the recipient of this sort of assault then they have good reason and evidence to do so.....Tactical teams don't just go around breaking down doors for no good reason.

Blip

Have spent a good part of my career working on specialized enforcement teams, (at the federal level counter-drug enforcement), another aspect of the "black mask" appearance is to intimidate the target. You try to establish control of the situation without having to resort to deadly force. I trained teams in techniques of "command presence" in which your appearance, action and words are used to effect control. Which hopefully eliminates the need to use greater force.

Also, as others have pointed out, concealing the identity of team members is very important, because the bads guys sometimes try to take revenge, not only on you, but also your family. I've unfortunately been involved in a few of those and it's not fun knowing that there is someone in your area targeting you or your family.

EleanorsMine

Well we ARE in Bama.All of us know how to handle our guns down here, so there is no need for all that hooty hoo.
Matter of fact, I think the first thing every one does when they move here is take a trip to Marks and pick some out. I don't know anyone who doesn't have one or 3.

Scothew

This is what I was referring to in my previous post. I am pretty confident in saying that 99% of alabamaians do NOT Need to own a handgun and honestly, I think the requirements to obtain a concealed weapons permit should be 100x more strict. A safety class and test should be required and more.

<!--QuoteBegin-EleanorsMine@May 26, 2005, 10:41 AM
I don't know anyone who doesn't have one or 3.

Quoted post

[/quote]

equally scary.

Maverick128

I'm sorry, I'm a liberal and I DID agree with you, a POS conservative nutjob, don't commit a crime and you have nothing to worry about.

EleanorsMine

For the record- I do NOT have a CCW.........and have zero plans to obtain one.

I have not even taken my gun out since I left Perry County, and down there I mostly used it to shoot cans and snakes.

scottie1113

I think you said it well.

I am not against people having firearms for personal protection. I got a .22 when I was 8 and shot at a range with the Junior NRA for years. During my 12 years as a Marine officer, including a tour in Vietnam, I qualified expert with the M-14, M-16, and .45 so I think I know my way around guns.

But there is a huge difference between having a gun and actually being able to pull the trigger. Have you ever held a gun on someone? It's not a pleasant experience, and if you ever do take action, the repercussions can be extensive and traumatic.

Fortunately my homes have never been burglarized in all my 57 years on this earth. Several years ago I shared a house with a retired Navy officer. Whenever he thought he heard a strange noise at night he would prowl the house with his 9mm. When he told me about this I didn't even want to get out of bed to go the bathroom in the middle of the night. The irony is that he had a dog--in my opinion the best self defense system you can have--and the dog never made a ruckus.

Anyone who thinks he can wake up at 3 am to find an armed intruder in the room and will be able to grab and fire a weapon is deluded. That's why these undercover raids take place then.

Besides, if you're not living on the wrong side of the law, you've got nothing to worry about.

Last, for you parents with children, please keep your guns away from them.

Sorry for the long rant.

EleanorsMine

You are absolutely correct btw......I wouldn't know how I would handle it because I have never had to. I have only killed snakes and tin cans with it- and then only for fun. I wouldn't pretend to know how I would handle things if I got in harms way. I guess I came across wrong huh?
I would like to think if something like that happened I would be able to remain calms and deal with it- but I don't know because I have never been put there.

scottie1113

And pray that you never will.

Totally off topic, but I may PM you with a Voltaire story. And you change your CT more often than I change my socks!

EleanorsMine

Totally not my fault-----But ISN'T my current CT the best

JessicaRabbitt

Here in Cali getting my CCW is hard. I am glad it is. I have to take Fire Arms course. It includes, safety, law, and use of firearms. Courses are 16-24 hours long. I then have to prove I have a reason to carry a concealed weapon. I then have to prove I have "good moral character", this they check with a backround check. I have pass a psyche eval in some counties.. (havent even bothered to check with my county, going through a full traning course with the Sheriffs Dept. They will eval me there.)

You cant get your CCW without a weapon already, you must identify the weapon you are carrying during the application.

So, all told its going to take some time, and cash. All of which I am ok with. Training to be protection, we are taught to EXIT first, shoot only of absolutely neccessary. Primary goal is to get the protectee out of the way of danger. Normally utlizing the nearest exit and some fast feet.

LEOs dont just start squeezing off rounds. Here in Cali at least, they have to report everything. They have to be able to give a good reason why they fired, what they fired at. New cops are put through psych after thier first shooting, even if there were no injuries.

If you are worried about a bunch of guys breaking into your house, I would keep a cell phone under your pillow. Calling 911 is much easier to do when your half asleep then aiming a weapon well. Believe me, you will hear then break down the front door. Battering Rams are not quiet. By the time they have cleared the front portions of the house and found you snug in your bed, you have confirmed that those are officers. If on the absolute near impossible chance they have the wrong house, the worst that will happen is you will lose some sleep. Follow the officers instructions exactly, "Get on the floor, hands where we can see them, dont move." Depending on who they are looking for, you might end up in cuffs. I think that is pretty good outcome. I would rather be in cuffs on a mistake, and let go in a few minutes, than to end up dead because I fired wildy at a cop.

My gun will be no where near my daughter. In a locked deposit box. I will only need it for work. No reason to invite accidents in my house.