There are a lot uninformed idiots and free loaders that roamed TMS which frequently make stupid comments and they are still here.

In Doug's case I see immaturity but I also see the passion for the Mustang. I've exchanged some PMs with him which I offered indirect advice on do(s) and don't(s) and calmed him down on a couple occasions.

I would suggest a reinstatement with some kind of probation rather than for him to be banned. Let's face it, we don't know what each indivuals' personal circumstances are, what the home conditions are, and what service TMS is unknowingly providing to some members. Sympathy and tolerance should be afforded to all members and a second chance should be granted. This country is based on giving people the opportunity and the benefit of a second chance and I don't see why TMS should be any different.

I am sure there is justication for TMS to take the actions it does on all the daily challanges it faces. With that said, I respectfully request the TMS administration to reconsider its decision and give Doug one final chance. I am willing to take full responsibility for his actions and share the punishment if he steps over the line. I am confident that given the alternative he would straighten out.

 

Well George........
Can you take full responsibility that he will never harass Arin or me(or anyone else) again?

The thing is you gotta know when to fold em here........And most of us know at exactly what point that is. Not that I have never done ignorant stuff- but I at most times know when to quit.

Granted I don't know his home situation, But hades.......

 

George, that was Dougs 4th chance. I had tried my best to help him realize how some of his comments in the past were very immature and/or wrong. His attitude and lack of respect towards his peers and elders (other than obvious kissing butt to certain people) was also something i've tried to correct and help him understand how it was not a practice that would get him far in life.

He understood he was on his last chance since he had already been on a probation for a few days and I removed that. He and I have had lengthy and heated discussions regarding his problems and while I understand he is a kid, he understood that some comments he would make were going to get him banned, and he continued to post them.

In summary, this was not the first time Doug and I have been through this, but he knew and acknowledged that it was his last chance.

Im sorry but I will not reinstate him.

 

I'm behind Scott on this one.

Unfortunately you guys don't see whats behind the scenes.

As what Scott described has been an ongoing issue with multiple 'second-chances'.

 

Scott: That's understandable. I was not aware of it

What is not too commendable is your implication of "kissing butt to certain people". If you have something to state to me you should come out straight and state it. Without a single doubt, if you are right I will be the first one to acknowledge it. If you are wrong you will definetely know what's on my mind.

I am not the type who seeks adulation or inflate myself to any degree. I just don't need it. I have done quite a few good deeds for TMS members behind the scenes and never uttered a word about them. If I did they would have lost their meaning. In Doug's case there is no difference.

If the perception of butt kissing takes place I ignore it. That is why I share thoughts and topics in the TMS Team Members forum which I don't share anywhere else. The reason why I made the offer to look out for Doug's has nothing to do with Doug's approach to me. If I didn't publicly take on him was because of factors I mentioned previously not because of any butt kissing from a 15 year old. Putting fun and kidding around aside, it has never been my approach to take on the beatable or weak. I've always preferred to take those who portray themselves as the opposite.

I regret not being aware of the degree of sensitivity so that I could have been involved and perhaps played a roll in avoiding the outcome. I would have done it for Doug as well as TMS, as I think I've done so far.

 

Yes I would, at the risk of the consequeces I would suffer if I were to fail. TMS is my home to unwind and have some fun. I would not compromise my word or priciples since I consider them my most valueable possesions if I thought I could not succeed.

In dealing with my sons, there were roadblocks which I always conquered. I am not use to failing and although this would be a great challange I know I have the ability to make a difference and perhaps show the right way to someone who needs it.

I am disappointed and upset with Doug as well as at myself for being oblivious to the present circumstances.

 

George,

The kissing butt comment was not direct at or towards anyone person in particular. Doug has tried and done in the past of pissing someone off, then kissing their tail for xx amount of days untill they are over it. He's done it with quite a few of the staff and members, myself included. I, like yourself, have ignored in order to be as unbiased as possible.

A few months back, myself and a few others of the staff had a very long talk with Doug when he was causing quite a few problems. He acctually turned his act around 10 fold and was doing great for about a month. He was nice, his post were informative, and in fact, we all commented on how great he was doing. Then in the past 2 months I would say, he went back downhill and started in on the name calling, rude attitude, backtalking to people that were older and wiser than he and also at one point commented on how stupid and ignorant his own mother was. When called on it by members and staff, he basically just rolled his eyes at everyone. Shortly after that and another incident, that is when he was told he had one last chance and we urged him to turn his attitude around.

Doug made disrespectful comments towards another member in a sexual manner. That is what did him in. If any other member had said it, I would have taken similar, if not the same, actions. It will not be tolerated. Doug had already made a history and knew that if he caused problems again, it would be the door. It is as simple as that.

I have no beef with you and its quite commendable that you were willing to take on someone and be responsible for him. I had a feeling you did not know the on-going history with Doug and how many PM's I have had with him explaining right from wrong and trying to help him see the difference.

If he wants to take a cooling off break and sometime later try a fresh start, I am not opposed to that. I think he needs time though to maybe realize his errors and grow up some.

If you wish to continue this, please feel free to PM me. This honestly does not have a place in a public forum, but it has been allowed thus far.

 

I’m going to chime in here regarding Doug, as I was a supporter and have tried to stay on the positive side of things.

I too have PM’d Doug in the past and have spoken to him regarding his tone and behavior on the site. I think we actually had a pretty good relationship. I tried to view his incidents from a different perspective, and approached him like an adult (as I think the entire TMS staff has) and we worked through a few situations. After each incident there was the usual forgiveness, no harm/no foul attitude taken, until the next incident reared its ugly head. Maybe a cooling off/reflection period is necessary . . .I don’t know . .who am I to decide if a person has learned their lesson. I know I was 15/16 once and I wasn’t an angel, but I did try to be respectful of others. Though that is quite hard when the respect isn’t reciprocated.

One last note . . gloating because a person is banned isn’t too cool. If people are happy because someone got booted off the site, maybe be a little respectful and keep it to yourself. I guarantee Doug isn’t a bad kid, per say.

 

Scott, I know you are right. I also fully understand the burden of responsibility you carry with TMS. I also commend you for it as I have stated on previous times.

I just think this is a person who needs our help and I wish I could express myself in a more logical and specific manner to get my thoughts across. Just by reading posts a lot can be learned or deduced about people, their tendencies, needs, and possible scenarios. People open and express themselves here, which is something I will not do, in manners which at times are incomprehensible and very possibly because they have nowhere else to go. Not to degrade anyone, but some members are in a mental state similar to the homeless or hungry that we come across on the streets. It is hard having a few dollars in one's pocket and not giving some away even though there is the possibility one is buying a can of beer for them. The difference is that here the issues involve communication, attention, and acceptance.

 

Well said and I agree 100%. The problem is that last part, hasnt ever seemed to happen in the many times myself and others have tried to help. Its sort of like a bad relationship. You give and give and give, then get nothing but a slap in the face for all your efforts.

 

at the risk of getting flamed for adding a wee bit of levity to this convo


Group hug anyone?

 

 

alright.. my brain is a bit confused right now. but i have to say this. if you dont understand wtf im saying... sorry.

ill admit i was pissed as heck when i read dougs recent comments. they were hurtful and very innapropriate. i also kinda thought he was doin better for awhile. but then... he shook the boat a bit too much.

yes i was pissed, and i did kinda express my happiness when he got banned. i mean, i was really pissed.

but i have been talking to him on aim. and he does feel bad. yeah he was on his 4th chance and yeah, i think he kind of deserved that too, he pushed his limits.. alot

but he was getting a bit better. slowly. some ppl are just slow learners, and ive never really held it against someone b/c they were slower or took longer to do something. heck, i've said some not so nice things too. and if anyone here still hates me, you probly have a good reason to do so.

but im startgin to think i was wrong for rejoicing when doug was banned. in all seriousness, theres waaay worse people in the world. comparied to some people i know, he's practically a saint (yeah, i know some #$%@ed up people...)

sure he has a bit of an attitude, but S#$%, so did/do i sometimes. i thought back to al the times my friends said something to me the really irked me. but we always fixed the prob. shoot, if i cut off ties with everyonte that ever pissed me off, i'd have NO friends. i guarantee you i have/or will be pissed off by, or **** off one of you. but that doesnt mean i want to sever all ties and stuff.

maybe its cuz this is an online forum. we dont see people face to face, and like george said, we dont see peoples situations. what if TMS was a persons excape from a not so nice world? i mean, not everyone has had a happy, relatively normal life.

i dont really know where im going with this yet.

ok well heres an idea... what if some of us keep in touch with him for a while. talk to him n stuff. thru email, aim whatever. im not sayng lift the ban... well not yet. maybe we should just give him some cool off time like ppl have been saying. a few months or something, however long you guys see fit. maybe by then, he wont be the same little kid anymore.

i thought about how I'd feel if i did something stupid (which is all to common for me) and I got banned. man. maybe im just a total loser or something, but i'd flippin go nuts. id be pretty sad, mad, confused, the whole nine yards, so to speak.

and i know alot of people have problems with doug. i dunno, maybe we can just make sure ppl who dont get allong just keep their distance.

he does love mustangs alot. and face it, thats one less kid for the ricer bandwagon.

do what you guys feel is best for the site, but this is kinda how i feel. i dont really know myself. i just feel....well...bad right now.

bottom line, we all make mistakes. some just make a few too many. everyone has stuff theyre not proud of either.

am i rmbling again? yeah. i am. but i think i got my point across. sorry if i offended anyone...

agree, disagree, whatever. i just needed to let that out. cuz i really feel bad after talking to him

 

I think we need to give him a cooling off period. Look at it from this point of view. You can only give someone so many chances. What is better for the site? Losing 1 person that has been given countless opportunities to "learn", or lose a few members because they are tired of dealing with 1 individual that the site administration keeps tolerating. There are not too many places I can think of that would have given him as many chances as this site has. He didn't learn from his previous mistakes. Perhaps this time he will.

Definately keep in touch with him and who knows what will happen.

 

will do

 

Thanks for posting that Arin. Please keep intouch with him and keep us in the loop. Feel free to PM me or scott and any of the mods with news and your thoughts on him and how things are goin. We will relay that info to the other mods.
Thanx mate....you do me proud!

 

What makes TMS different from, say, Stangnet is the maturity and the civility of the posts. Very seldom do differences of opinion result in name calling and blatant disrespect. Considering how much this site has grown since I joined, I think that's admirable.

Mods have to make a tough call when they ban someone but they have a resposibility to mantain the integrity of this site, and they all do commendable jobs. I thank all of them for their dedication.

 

Granted I shouldn't have been joyful...........I was wrong.

I just don't understand why someone wants to act like that I have kids almost the same age...and they act nothing like that, as well as our other teen members. So I don't get it, but granted as well I don't know their home situation.


I do understand the need for banning though- I have been a(big) fool elsewhere before,and yes I got banned for it.

 

A lot us enjoy each other companies which makes for frequent fun and some good laughs. I've done some research on Doug, it is clear he stepped over the line which is not acceptable specially if he addresses our lady members, then is neither funny or fun.

It is very evident he placed mods between a rock and a hard place. I believe Doug has acknowledged his errors and recognizes the value of TMS he took for granted in the past few months. With self restraint and guarded guidance the probability of him being a productive member are pretty good IMO.

 

i think he just needs some time. i'll keep in touch with him for sure