Alero
12/8/04, 02:15 PM
#2
Shelby GT500 Member
My wife has had one since Nov. 1999 and likes it. We nary had a problem with it (yet) other than some issues with the brake pads which was a quick fix to replace.
Oh...and the spoiler broke off, so I had to fill the holes.
April's comments on the "deathcool" has me concerned though.
Oh...and the spoiler broke off, so I had to fill the holes.
April's comments on the "deathcool" has me concerned though.
12/8/04, 02:34 PM
#3
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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My snowflake is lovely..............I don't hate driving it, its just its an Alero, not a Mustang..... I have 140 k miles on it, and it still looks and drives(with maintenance from my mechanic) well....fine 
Only issues are:
I have to replace the brakes every 6 months and the intake system got eaten up, and the FWD axles and bearings had to be replaced and my fuel injectors clogged up...This death cool thingy only affects the 3400 SFI v6 engines at around 80,000 miles..say hello- shes arctic white....
Only issues are:
I have to replace the brakes every 6 months and the intake system got eaten up, and the FWD axles and bearings had to be replaced and my fuel injectors clogged up...This death cool thingy only affects the 3400 SFI v6 engines at around 80,000 miles..say hello- shes arctic white....
12/8/04, 08:32 PM
#5
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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You are lucky!
Keep a watch out.......I have had the entire cooling system replaced- and the radiator flushed and I still drive all summer scared. All the sludge in the radiator even after flushing keeps the temp. gauge pegged at 3/4 anytime the weather is hot.. BTW, I did not join the class action because I feel its an attempt to make the lawyers richer........
GM, Others Sued Over Dex-Cool
by Garrett McKinnon NOLN Staff Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For years, fast lube operators have been aware of problems associated with the Dex-Cool antifreeze/coolant that has been the factory-fill coolant in General Motors vehicles since 1996. Indeed, several Technical Tips published in these pages as far back as 2001 have shed light on contamination and other issues that, at least from an anecdotal standpoint, seem to plague this type of coolant.
Apparently, lube operators are not the only ones to have noticed.
Class action lawsuits regarding Dex-Cool have been filed in more than eight states, and General Motors, ChevronTexaco and Equilon (Shell Oil Company) have been named as defendants in at least some of these cases.
Dex-Cool is a registered trademark of GM, for coolant that meets GM specification 6277M. Currently, ChevronTexaco and Prestone are the only two suppliers of Dex-Cool coolant.
According to one suit filed in Madison County, Illinois, the Dex-Cool in plaintiffs' vehicles "began to turn into sludge, which accumulated in the vehicle's engine cooling system and radiator."
At the crux of these lawsuits is GM's recommendation that Dex-Cool be changed every five years or 100,000 to 150,000 miles
The suit states that as a result of this 'sludge,' plaintiffs have incurred expenses for cooling system flushes/refills and they "did not receive the benefit of Dex-Cool lasting five years or 150,000 miles."
Initially (for 1996-model year vehicles), GM recommended a service interval for Dex-Cool of five years or 100,000 miles. Beginning with 1997-model vehicles and continuing through today, GM recommends a service interval for Dex-Cool of five years or 150,000 miles.
The suit alleges that GM knew Dex-Cool was a defective product.
"Although GM service bulletins acknowledge that 'sludging' can occur with Dex-Cool if air pockets are present within the cooling system, GM did not develop an airtight cooling system in its vehicles," the Illinois suit alleges, further stating that, "GM has never agreed to inspect or monitor the engine cooling systems, repair vehicles not in warranty, recall vehicles, replace Dex-Cool, change the maintenance schedule to include inspection of the engine coolant system or inform plaintiffs...of the defective and hazardous conditions of their engine coolant system."
Repair costs for problematic Dex-Cool cooling systems are often as much as $1,000 or more.
Most automotive antifreeze/cooling systems in this country use ethylene glycol as the main component in their coolant. Because ethylene glycol is naturally corrosive, however, coolant manufacturers have long used inorganic salts such as borate, phosphate, silicate and other chemicals to prevent automotive cooling systems from rusting and corroding. Most automakers recommend these coolants be changed every three years or 36,000 miles.
In 1996, GM began switching its vehicle fleet to Dex-Cool, an antifreeze/coolant that uses carboxylate or organic acid technology (OAT) as its main corrosion inhibitor compound, instead of inorganic salts. The Illinois lawsuit alleges that this technology causes rust and corrosion to a much greater degree than traditional coolants.
Known for its orange color (to differentiate it from traditional 'green' coolant), Dex-Cool has been factory-installed in more than 35 million cars and light trucks since the 1996 model year.
The problem, several lawsuits say, is that problems with Dex-Cool most often manifest themselves after consumers' vehicles are out of warranty, and GM has refused to offer assistance to vehicle owners who run into these problems. The lawsuits charge that this violates the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.
GM's position is that the technology used in Dex-Cool has been used successfully for many years in Europe. The company contends that carboxylate technology has demonstrated improved corrosion protection, improved heat transfer, increased service life, reduced environmental impact and been a net money saver for users.
The company admits that some models have seen corroded cooling systems, but blames the corrosion on coolant systems that were not maintained by motorists. According to GM, coolant systems whose levels are maintained show almost no corrosion, a finding backed up by comprehensive testing of the coolant. Even cooling systems equipped with traditional coolants will suffer from corrosion if their fluid levels are not maintained, GM asserts.
GM has also stated that recommended service intervals are not warranties.
Still, the lawsuits claim that GM knew there was a problem with Dex-Cool.
"Shortly after vehicles filled with Dex-Cool were sold, GM was presented with data and complaints from customers, its engineers, its dealers, fleet accounts, service technicians and the media of corroded, rusted and clogged radiators, eroded aluminum cylinder heads, eroded water pumps and thermostat housings, rotten and leaking radiator hoses, leaky heater cores and freeze plugs, corroded radiator caps, deposits within the cooling system, damaged and leaky cooling system gaskets, damage to the head gaskets, chronic overheating, damage to the engine, oil in engine coolant system, leaking coolant, deposits on the overflow tank and sludge in the engine coolant system," the Illinois suit alleges, adding that as early as late-2000, GM engineers were observing coolant contamination in several thousand GM off-lease cars less than four years old.
The Illinois lawsuit also said that at a presentation by GM engineers at the 2001 MACS convention in Orlando, Florida, the engineers told attendees that there are cooling system problems in GM vehicles.
The lawsuits are charging GM and other co-defendants with consumer fraud, and asking for "an award of damages, attorneys' fees, costs, pre- and post-judgment interest, and such relief as the court deems just and proper."
At question in many of these lawsuits is whether GM and other defendants violated state consumer protection laws, whether the Dex-Cool contains an inherent design or manufacturing defect, whether GM vehicles contain an inherent design or manufacturing defect in their cooling systems, whether the defendants should have known about these defects, when they learned of the defects, whether GM and other defendants continued to sell Dex-Cool even after learning of its defects, whether GM and other defendants failed to notify consumers of the defects inherent in Dex-Cool, and whether GM has failed to repair or offer to repair all problems associated with the defective engine coolant.
The anti-Dex-Cool movement is growing, too, with more and more owners of GM vehicles joining these class action lawsuits. Thus far, however, little evidence has been presented proving either side's argument.
Plus, some lawsuits are claiming that Dex-Cool is at least partially responsible for the string of intake manifold gasket failures on GM vehicles equipped with 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engines. For its part, GM has issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB 03-06-01-010) that entitles some owners of affected vehicles to a free gasket repair. The service bulletin blames the gasket material, not Dex-Cool, for the problem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep a watch out.......I have had the entire cooling system replaced- and the radiator flushed and I still drive all summer scared. All the sludge in the radiator even after flushing keeps the temp. gauge pegged at 3/4 anytime the weather is hot.. BTW, I did not join the class action because I feel its an attempt to make the lawyers richer........
GM, Others Sued Over Dex-Cool
by Garrett McKinnon NOLN Staff Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For years, fast lube operators have been aware of problems associated with the Dex-Cool antifreeze/coolant that has been the factory-fill coolant in General Motors vehicles since 1996. Indeed, several Technical Tips published in these pages as far back as 2001 have shed light on contamination and other issues that, at least from an anecdotal standpoint, seem to plague this type of coolant.
Apparently, lube operators are not the only ones to have noticed.
Class action lawsuits regarding Dex-Cool have been filed in more than eight states, and General Motors, ChevronTexaco and Equilon (Shell Oil Company) have been named as defendants in at least some of these cases.
Dex-Cool is a registered trademark of GM, for coolant that meets GM specification 6277M. Currently, ChevronTexaco and Prestone are the only two suppliers of Dex-Cool coolant.
According to one suit filed in Madison County, Illinois, the Dex-Cool in plaintiffs' vehicles "began to turn into sludge, which accumulated in the vehicle's engine cooling system and radiator."
At the crux of these lawsuits is GM's recommendation that Dex-Cool be changed every five years or 100,000 to 150,000 miles
The suit states that as a result of this 'sludge,' plaintiffs have incurred expenses for cooling system flushes/refills and they "did not receive the benefit of Dex-Cool lasting five years or 150,000 miles."
Initially (for 1996-model year vehicles), GM recommended a service interval for Dex-Cool of five years or 100,000 miles. Beginning with 1997-model vehicles and continuing through today, GM recommends a service interval for Dex-Cool of five years or 150,000 miles.
The suit alleges that GM knew Dex-Cool was a defective product.
"Although GM service bulletins acknowledge that 'sludging' can occur with Dex-Cool if air pockets are present within the cooling system, GM did not develop an airtight cooling system in its vehicles," the Illinois suit alleges, further stating that, "GM has never agreed to inspect or monitor the engine cooling systems, repair vehicles not in warranty, recall vehicles, replace Dex-Cool, change the maintenance schedule to include inspection of the engine coolant system or inform plaintiffs...of the defective and hazardous conditions of their engine coolant system."
Repair costs for problematic Dex-Cool cooling systems are often as much as $1,000 or more.
Most automotive antifreeze/cooling systems in this country use ethylene glycol as the main component in their coolant. Because ethylene glycol is naturally corrosive, however, coolant manufacturers have long used inorganic salts such as borate, phosphate, silicate and other chemicals to prevent automotive cooling systems from rusting and corroding. Most automakers recommend these coolants be changed every three years or 36,000 miles.
In 1996, GM began switching its vehicle fleet to Dex-Cool, an antifreeze/coolant that uses carboxylate or organic acid technology (OAT) as its main corrosion inhibitor compound, instead of inorganic salts. The Illinois lawsuit alleges that this technology causes rust and corrosion to a much greater degree than traditional coolants.
Known for its orange color (to differentiate it from traditional 'green' coolant), Dex-Cool has been factory-installed in more than 35 million cars and light trucks since the 1996 model year.
The problem, several lawsuits say, is that problems with Dex-Cool most often manifest themselves after consumers' vehicles are out of warranty, and GM has refused to offer assistance to vehicle owners who run into these problems. The lawsuits charge that this violates the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.
GM's position is that the technology used in Dex-Cool has been used successfully for many years in Europe. The company contends that carboxylate technology has demonstrated improved corrosion protection, improved heat transfer, increased service life, reduced environmental impact and been a net money saver for users.
The company admits that some models have seen corroded cooling systems, but blames the corrosion on coolant systems that were not maintained by motorists. According to GM, coolant systems whose levels are maintained show almost no corrosion, a finding backed up by comprehensive testing of the coolant. Even cooling systems equipped with traditional coolants will suffer from corrosion if their fluid levels are not maintained, GM asserts.
GM has also stated that recommended service intervals are not warranties.
Still, the lawsuits claim that GM knew there was a problem with Dex-Cool.
"Shortly after vehicles filled with Dex-Cool were sold, GM was presented with data and complaints from customers, its engineers, its dealers, fleet accounts, service technicians and the media of corroded, rusted and clogged radiators, eroded aluminum cylinder heads, eroded water pumps and thermostat housings, rotten and leaking radiator hoses, leaky heater cores and freeze plugs, corroded radiator caps, deposits within the cooling system, damaged and leaky cooling system gaskets, damage to the head gaskets, chronic overheating, damage to the engine, oil in engine coolant system, leaking coolant, deposits on the overflow tank and sludge in the engine coolant system," the Illinois suit alleges, adding that as early as late-2000, GM engineers were observing coolant contamination in several thousand GM off-lease cars less than four years old.
The Illinois lawsuit also said that at a presentation by GM engineers at the 2001 MACS convention in Orlando, Florida, the engineers told attendees that there are cooling system problems in GM vehicles.
The lawsuits are charging GM and other co-defendants with consumer fraud, and asking for "an award of damages, attorneys' fees, costs, pre- and post-judgment interest, and such relief as the court deems just and proper."
At question in many of these lawsuits is whether GM and other defendants violated state consumer protection laws, whether the Dex-Cool contains an inherent design or manufacturing defect, whether GM vehicles contain an inherent design or manufacturing defect in their cooling systems, whether the defendants should have known about these defects, when they learned of the defects, whether GM and other defendants continued to sell Dex-Cool even after learning of its defects, whether GM and other defendants failed to notify consumers of the defects inherent in Dex-Cool, and whether GM has failed to repair or offer to repair all problems associated with the defective engine coolant.
The anti-Dex-Cool movement is growing, too, with more and more owners of GM vehicles joining these class action lawsuits. Thus far, however, little evidence has been presented proving either side's argument.
Plus, some lawsuits are claiming that Dex-Cool is at least partially responsible for the string of intake manifold gasket failures on GM vehicles equipped with 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engines. For its part, GM has issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB 03-06-01-010) that entitles some owners of affected vehicles to a free gasket repair. The service bulletin blames the gasket material, not Dex-Cool, for the problem.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12/8/04, 09:11 PM
#6
TMS Post # 1,000,000
Serbian Steamer
Serbian Steamer
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So, why are you complaining? 140,000 miles. Even Toyota wouldn't last that long without any problems.
I have 1997 Dodge Intrepid Sport, which was the most powerful Intrepid offered by Dodge in 1997. 3.5L V6 with auto-stick (love that part). Got it at 30,000 miles, currently have 84,000 miles. At 54,000 miles water pump died, automatic window opener on passenger door stoped working, stereo died. At 80,000 miles something went wrong with stearing wheel (acting really funny on snow and rain, turning left/right without me doing anything) and night before Thanksgiving, when I was driving 65 mph during snowstorm, windshield wipers died. I could've been killed that night.
So, do you still think Alero is bad?
I have 1997 Dodge Intrepid Sport, which was the most powerful Intrepid offered by Dodge in 1997. 3.5L V6 with auto-stick (love that part). Got it at 30,000 miles, currently have 84,000 miles. At 54,000 miles water pump died, automatic window opener on passenger door stoped working, stereo died. At 80,000 miles something went wrong with stearing wheel (acting really funny on snow and rain, turning left/right without me doing anything) and night before Thanksgiving, when I was driving 65 mph during snowstorm, windshield wipers died. I could've been killed that night.
So, do you still think Alero is bad?
12/8/04, 09:19 PM
#7
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
Join Date: May 5, 2004
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nope, not at all..........Its never "bad" It runs and I am not embarassed to drive it.I have a GREAT Mechanic who fixes it whenever it breaks.....so its mostly all good.
Well until next week I am, my brakes need replaced
Well until next week I am, my brakes need replaced
12/9/04, 05:01 AM
#9
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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I would get it flushed and use that new prestone yellow. But get it flushed twice to be safe, that slime is persistent (if you have it). I still have slime, but its because I don't feel like spending $200 on a new radiator. Fortunately that whole thing only ran me $365 and that included a front drivers bearing. My mechanic is spectacular, and cheap.
I do have a metal intake mainfold gasket now instead of the one that was eaten, that has kept me safe for over a year. And a new radiator cap. My car is a 99, and I have only read about 99 aleros getting messed up.
The brake thing has me mad. I thought I was the only one replacing pads every six months. Right now It sounds embarassing, but my mechanic is 45 miles from me and my rims are a bee-yotch to take off ourself.....
The week it went nuts was 9/03....Funniest thing ever, I was going to vote and it ran hot.... Steam everywhere when I parked. No problem, I was going to take care of it because by that point I was keeping a gallon of coolant in the tank. Next thing I knew fire and rescue rolls up- we got a report of a car fire. I got points for knowing my stuff that day. FD cooled my car down for me.
Actually the alero is more than fine(and at least it isnt the bronco that gets 7mpg). 28 mpg and $18 to fill up.
Until Eleanor comes home, I am doing some improvements. I am thinking of going with black stripes to replace the silver and going for seat covers, they are silver cloth, and I am tired of looking at em.
I do have a metal intake mainfold gasket now instead of the one that was eaten, that has kept me safe for over a year. And a new radiator cap. My car is a 99, and I have only read about 99 aleros getting messed up.
The brake thing has me mad. I thought I was the only one replacing pads every six months. Right now It sounds embarassing, but my mechanic is 45 miles from me and my rims are a bee-yotch to take off ourself.....
The week it went nuts was 9/03....Funniest thing ever, I was going to vote and it ran hot.... Steam everywhere when I parked. No problem, I was going to take care of it because by that point I was keeping a gallon of coolant in the tank. Next thing I knew fire and rescue rolls up- we got a report of a car fire. I got points for knowing my stuff that day. FD cooled my car down for me.
Actually the alero is more than fine(and at least it isnt the bronco that gets 7mpg). 28 mpg and $18 to fill up.
Until Eleanor comes home, I am doing some improvements. I am thinking of going with black stripes to replace the silver and going for seat covers, they are silver cloth, and I am tired of looking at em.
12/9/04, 12:28 PM
#12
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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Originally posted by ItsNotABulliT@December 9, 2004, 2:25 PM
Beat the heck out of it! Its a rental
Beat the heck out of it! Its a rental
12/11/04, 05:19 AM
#14
After all these years,
My C/T still sucks!
My C/T still sucks!
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http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/715763
I made this one day bored...........and ticked cause the hose popped and I hate the smell of coolant. Its just about the tempramental engine...
I made this one day bored...........and ticked cause the hose popped and I hate the smell of coolant. Its just about the tempramental engine...
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