Redpony,

Thanks! I knew the engine was mostly Aluminum. As far as body panels, it's good to know that the hood is the only part.

In the 60's, aluminum body panels and acid dipped steel was desirable for a race car and are worth big $$$ now but I wouldn't want a driver to have them.

 

Aluminum body panels are WAY more costly to replace than good 'ol steel.
And using that for pick up frames!? Are those guy's nuts? They'll break in half in no time on serious work trucks.

 

Oh, I agree! And from where I stand, 10 years down the road when the salt erodes away the aluminum enough, and you break it, there won't be enough metal left to heli arc it back together! Even if you patched in a piece over the break, by the time you get it clean enough to weld , it's going to be thin where you prepped it. Then, when you weld it, you must be sure the rod or wire alloy matches the alloy of the frame as possible. Since it's 5256 alloy a 5000 series alloy is right. You shouldn't use a softer (3000 or lower) alloy to weld 5000 series aluminum.

 

So in a Northern climate where salt is used on the roads in the winter and a person drives a newer Chevy/GMC truck through the winter they are in essence driving a disposable pickup. Wow.

 

If it's an '08 or newer you might put it that way! And what a shame! After almost 50 Years of bottom end issues with the small block they finally build a good engine in the 6.0 truck engine- good durability! Then they give the truck an aluminum frame-- unbelievable! I wonder if GM plans to do a buy-back like Toyota did?! But, then again maybe not !

 

My thought is that if it gets weight down in a reasonably affordable manner, then great. It, of course, has its own characteristics and needs to be seen that way -- steel, too, certainly has many of its own distinctive good and bad traits (rust, weight...).

Composite materials, CF included, could certainly provide immense benefits if costs could be brought into line, so given that caveat, I would be whole heartedly for composites too. Think the GT500 has impressive performance now, consider what half the weight would do for not only acceleration but handling, braking and economy (think of the current model but with 1,000 hp and the dynamic prowess of a Miata or S2200).

Anyways, in terms of any engineering and development, if you're not going forwards, you're going backwards.

 

Several years ago, I read an article where Ford was experimenting with composite materials to assemble an entire engine! This sounds like a nightmare, but the article pointed out the composite motors were capible of higher rpm and of greater durability! They dyno-tested conventional engines under some brutal rigors and the average life expectancy on the dyno was around 250 hours. But the composite engine lasted over 700 hours! All aluminum motors like we have in the s197 cars are great! The only thing that bothers me is our blocks are not steel sleeved cylinders. The rings run on the aluminum . But the heat treating prosess they use must work!

 

I am by no means a structural aluminum expert. But we have been making many critical structural parts out of aluminum for decades. Other than repair complications, I don't see the problem.

The 2005-2006 Ford GT Supercar is **** near solid aluminum...


From the introduction of the Ford GT concept car at Ford’s centennial celebration in 2003, to its production line debut as Ford’s flagship brand in 2004, Ford design engineers have raised aluminum technologies to a new threshold. Ford’s design team, working closely with extruder Hydro Aluminum North America, has developed an all-new extruded aluminum space frame as the foundation of its legendary redesigned and re-engineered 2005 Ford GT. The supercharged MOD 5.4-liter V-8 engine produces 550 horsepower and 500 foot-pounds of torque. Ford’s “dream team” of designers and engineers are pioneering advanced technology for the GT program.

The new GT, though it has every bit of its namesake’s sleek, racy look, features an aluminum extruded space frame. The all aluminum chassis, unheard of in the GT’s heyday in the 1960s, uses extrusions to connect four corner castings to one behind the passenger compartment, creating a rigid, strong and lightweight welded frame.

Computer modeling was used during chassis and body development and crash testing to shorten the time frame, cutting prototype requirements by 90 percent. To meet performance targets for static and dynamic body stiffness, the team created new joining and assembling technologies, and developed an industry-first aluminum shim-nut system to attach and locate body panels in proper position relative to the extruded space frame.

The aluminum space frame chassis includes: 35 extrusions, 30 of which were developed for Ford; multiple stamped aluminum panels; five complex castings; and four semi-solid formed castings, which anchor the corners and serve as mounting points for a double wishbone suspension. The chassis features unequal-length extruded control arms and coil-over spring-damper units to accommodate its low profile. In addition, bolt-on extrusions structurally support the engine compartment and are integrated into the bumper assembly. The rear sport bar is also extruded aluminum.

Space frame rigidity was critical: “Extrusions can be designed to provide optimum structural performance, allowing individual wall thickness adjustments to meet bending stiffness requirements. The extrusions are particularly effective in absorbing energy during a crash,” Elliott notes. Front and rear extruded aluminum crush rails are bolted to the frame, removing easily in case of a low-speed impact.

The GT uses super-plastic formed aluminum outer body panels, roll-bonded aluminum floor panels, a friction-stir-welded center tunnel, a capless fuel filler system, and a polished aluminum engine cover. The aerodynamic package includes a front splitter, side skirts, completely enclosed under body, rear spoiler, and under-car venturi tunnel, providing 300 pounds of down force at 130 miles per hour—one of the lowest lift-drag ratios on a production car.

Industry wide, many new automotive designs are incorporating more extruded aluminum and aluminum-alloy components into frames, suspensions, chassis, engine blocks, radiators, cylinder heads, bumpers, and side impact beams. Aluminum extruders are at the forefront of this trend, supplying key parts to automakers for newly designed vehicles.

Automobiles using significant aluminum design elements include: the 2005 Aston Martin DB9; the 2005 BMW 6 Series; the 2005 Lotus Elise; the 2005 Pininfarina Enjoy; the 2005 Subaru Legacy; the 2005 Subaru WRX STi; the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti; and the Jaguar XJ. Pound for pound, aluminum is stronger than steel, and as engineers attest, “...aluminum meets the same federal crash standards as steel, given the proper design and construction methods.”


http://www.aec.org/

 

My neighbor across the street from me back in the late 60's owned , if my memory serves me right an Austin Healey about a '67 model- all aluminum! It's been used for many years! Heck the thread started out with a reference pointing to the fact that the Model T hoods were aluminum!

 

Seems strong enough for this application...

...and this one.

Pretty well proven, I'd say.

 

I just think people do not see it applied in these situations until now, which would normally raise some eyebrows..

 

Yeah, most people think 'aluminum', then think about pop cans. Different beast.

Still, if it works... I remember GM really touted the balsa wood composite floor sandwich in their advertising back when the C5 was introduced (where they first started using it). Seems to work.

 

I'm sure it will work just fine.... for how long , who knows? But it's one thing building it. It's another to have to effect a proper repair to it and to have to stand behind that repair for as long as the car is on the road, which is what insurance companies demand.

 

Yeah, I could see how a repair to that component would be a bloody nightmare - especially to get it back to spec. Seems it would require a very specific skills set.

Best not to crash your Vette, I guess is the best advice here.

 

Or the pick-up either! After all, which will see more highway a 'vette or the new Chevy pick-up? The pick-up will likely see a lot more abuse too!

 

good point