You can't fix stupid in Camp Camaro...
1/20/12, 12:49 PM
#1
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You can't fix stupid in Camp Camaro...
1/20/12, 01:07 PM
#2
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Fighting Words From ZL1 Chief Engineer!
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/20/c...-shelby-gt500/
"We've done simulations. We predict that the ZL1 will be quicker to 60 than the [2013] GT500.."
I play video games too Al!
"We've done simulations. We predict that the ZL1 will be quicker to 60 than the [2013] GT500.."
I play video games too Al!
1/20/12, 01:29 PM
#6
Originally Posted by bpmurr
Please point me to the thread in this section on the topic?
1/20/12, 01:37 PM
#9
MOTM Committee Member
Bahahahahhahahah!!!!!!
I love the "we've done simulations" line! Any engineer worth his weight will tell you the number one thing you never forget about simulations/models is that they CAN BE WRONG.
They are only approximations. And since I'm betting that their last model is based on the 2012 GT500, I'd guess that whatever they've modified in that model to 'simulate' a '13 GT500 is inaccurate. Nice try though
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I love the "we've done simulations" line! Any engineer worth his weight will tell you the number one thing you never forget about simulations/models is that they CAN BE WRONG.
They are only approximations. And since I'm betting that their last model is based on the 2012 GT500, I'd guess that whatever they've modified in that model to 'simulate' a '13 GT500 is inaccurate. Nice try though
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1/20/12, 01:44 PM
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1/21/12, 10:34 AM
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I posted the below information in a different, ZL1-related thread, but I felt as though it was germane to this topic. In order for the 2012 Camaro ZL1 to be quicker in terms of acceleration, the 2013 GT500 would have to become slower than the outgoing 2011-12 GT500. Motor Trend has the ZL1 accelerating to 60 mph in 3.8 seconds, where the 550-horse GT500 hits that mark in 4.1 seconds. Car and Driver has identical times of 4.1 seconds for both cars; keep in mind, the ZL1 features a sophisticated launch control system and 305 rear tires whereas the 2007-12 GT500's are notoriously hard to launch. For 2013, the GT500 gains launch control among other electro-nannies that aid in performance. Compared to the Camaro ZL1, the 2013 GT500 is a couple hundred pounds lighter, features 70 additional horsepower and 44 lb-ft of extra torque in addition to several other launch- and performance-enhancing upgrades, and I just can't see Ford's upcoming super Mustang accelerating slower than the outgoing model.
Car and Driver
2011 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 PP coupe ---- 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
base price - $49,495 ----------------------------------- $56,295
price as tested - $55,330 ------------------------------ $56,795
curb weight - 3,751 lbs; 6.8 lb per hp ----------------- 4,120; 7.1
0-30 - 1.7 seconds -------------------------------------- 1.8
0-40 - 2.3 ------------------------------------------------ 2.4
0-50 - 3.2 ------------------------------------------------ 3.1
0-60 - 4.1 ------------------------------------------------ 4.1
0-70 - 5.1 ------------------------------------------------ 5.0
0-80 - 6.4 ------------------------------------------------ 6.2
0-90 - 7.7 ------------------------------------------------ 7.5
0-100 - 9.1 ----------------------------------------------- 8.9
0-110 - 11.0 --------------------------------------------- 10.7
0-120 - 12.9 --------------------------------------------- 12.6
0-130 - 15.1 --------------------------------------------- 14.7
0-140 - 18.9 --------------------------------------------- n/a
0-150 - 23.6 --------------------------------------------- n/a
street start, 5-60 - 4.5 --------------------------------- 4.6
top gear, 30-50 - 11.0 ---------------------------------- 7.8
top gear, 50-70 - 9.9 ----------------------------------- 6.7
1/4 mile - 12.7 @ 117 mph ---------------------------- 12.3 @ 119 mph
top speed - 155 mph ----------------------------------- 180 mph
70-0 braking - 151 feet -------------------------------- 165 feet
skidpad grip - 1.0 g ------------------------------------ 0.98 g
fuel economy - 15 city / 23 highway; 15 observed -- 14/16; 13
Motor Trend
2011 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 PP coupe ------ 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
base price - $49,495 ------------------------------------- $55,995
price as tested - $55,330 -------------------------------- $56,465
curb weight - 3,801 lbs; 6.91 lb per hp ----------------- 4,051; 7.0
0-30 - 1.6 seconds --------------------------------------- 1.6
0-40 - 2.3 ------------------------------------------------- 2.2
0-50 - 3.1 ------------------------------------------------- 2.9
0-60 - 4.1 ------------------------------------------------- 3.8
0-70 - 5.1 ------------------------------------------------- 4.8
0-80 - 6.3 ------------------------------------------------- 6.0
0-90 - 7.7 ------------------------------------------------- 7.3
0-100 - 9.2 ------------------------------------------------ 8.7
passing, 45-65 - 2.0 -------------------------------------- 1.7
1/4 mile - 12.4 @ 115.8 mph ---------------------------- 12.1 @ 117.4
60-0 braking - 104 feet ----------------------------------- 108
skidpad grip - 1.01 g -------------------------------------- 1.0 g
fuel economy - 15 city / 23 highway --------------------- 16 / 19
Car and Driver
2011 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 PP coupe ---- 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
base price - $49,495 ----------------------------------- $56,295
price as tested - $55,330 ------------------------------ $56,795
curb weight - 3,751 lbs; 6.8 lb per hp ----------------- 4,120; 7.1
0-30 - 1.7 seconds -------------------------------------- 1.8
0-40 - 2.3 ------------------------------------------------ 2.4
0-50 - 3.2 ------------------------------------------------ 3.1
0-60 - 4.1 ------------------------------------------------ 4.1
0-70 - 5.1 ------------------------------------------------ 5.0
0-80 - 6.4 ------------------------------------------------ 6.2
0-90 - 7.7 ------------------------------------------------ 7.5
0-100 - 9.1 ----------------------------------------------- 8.9
0-110 - 11.0 --------------------------------------------- 10.7
0-120 - 12.9 --------------------------------------------- 12.6
0-130 - 15.1 --------------------------------------------- 14.7
0-140 - 18.9 --------------------------------------------- n/a
0-150 - 23.6 --------------------------------------------- n/a
street start, 5-60 - 4.5 --------------------------------- 4.6
top gear, 30-50 - 11.0 ---------------------------------- 7.8
top gear, 50-70 - 9.9 ----------------------------------- 6.7
1/4 mile - 12.7 @ 117 mph ---------------------------- 12.3 @ 119 mph
top speed - 155 mph ----------------------------------- 180 mph
70-0 braking - 151 feet -------------------------------- 165 feet
skidpad grip - 1.0 g ------------------------------------ 0.98 g
fuel economy - 15 city / 23 highway; 15 observed -- 14/16; 13
Motor Trend
2011 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 PP coupe ------ 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
base price - $49,495 ------------------------------------- $55,995
price as tested - $55,330 -------------------------------- $56,465
curb weight - 3,801 lbs; 6.91 lb per hp ----------------- 4,051; 7.0
0-30 - 1.6 seconds --------------------------------------- 1.6
0-40 - 2.3 ------------------------------------------------- 2.2
0-50 - 3.1 ------------------------------------------------- 2.9
0-60 - 4.1 ------------------------------------------------- 3.8
0-70 - 5.1 ------------------------------------------------- 4.8
0-80 - 6.3 ------------------------------------------------- 6.0
0-90 - 7.7 ------------------------------------------------- 7.3
0-100 - 9.2 ------------------------------------------------ 8.7
passing, 45-65 - 2.0 -------------------------------------- 1.7
1/4 mile - 12.4 @ 115.8 mph ---------------------------- 12.1 @ 117.4
60-0 braking - 104 feet ----------------------------------- 108
skidpad grip - 1.01 g -------------------------------------- 1.0 g
fuel economy - 15 city / 23 highway --------------------- 16 / 19
1/21/12, 10:44 AM
#12
Its simple guys, they want to keep their fans happy. They will stoke the fire with comments like this so prospective buyers come through for them. If you are not loyal to one brand and were considering the ZL1, you now have pause with the GT500 coming. So, this type of comment is just marketing.
1/21/12, 12:09 PM
#13
Mach 1 Member
The fire is burning quite seriousty, but I still cant it through my head that taking the `12 SVTPP on a track day would void the warranty on the diff and transmision. That can`t be true. And i really hoped for some brake ducting the `13, i mean this is getting rediculous, a simple NACA duct would cost like what 20 bucks? Where else would people who bought a 650 horesepower car use it besides on a track? Team SVT would have to be miracle workers in order to make that rear axle work in the real world with that kind of power. Why cant they do the same thing they did to the Termi ten years ago. The car had 2 years of production left and they still gave it a kickass IRS setup without that big of a price change. For gods sake its a 55 000$ car, it deserves it!
1/21/12, 02:01 PM
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1/21/12, 04:05 PM
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The non-stop crap talk and excuses from the Camaro contingent since Ford announced the specifications for the 2013 GT500 doesn't bother me because fanboys will be fanboys. We heard it all before when Ford announced the 2011 Mustang 5.0L; the head-to-head reviews and performance specifications paint a picture completely different from what the Chevy crowd would have had you believe initially, you know, with the Camaro featuring the bigger, more-powerful engine, "superior" IRS, blah blah. However, when the source of the rhetoric is a high-profile GM executive like Al Oppenheiser, it just sounds pathetic, in my opinion. If your car's really so great, Al, let its performance speak for itself ("simulations"? Really??) Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember any high-profile Ford executives or engineers trashing GM, even despite the myriad of bad news with GM in the subject line over the past couple years (the Camaro being dead from 2002-10; GM's bankruptcy -- maybe they should have run their "how to run a company and keep from going bankrupt" simulations; the huge flop that is the Volt -- take your pick). Ford Mustang fans should thank GM for making the Camaro? The Camaro wouldn't exist if not for the Mustang, both initially and in its new, two-ton modern iteration. And, congratulations to Chevy for outselling a Mustang that has looked pretty much the same since MY 2005. While not the sales obliteration I was expecting with an all-new car and eight years of pent-up demand, a win is a win. I have no doubt that Ford will pull out all the stops for MY 2015, and that's something we can all thank Chevy (and, to a lesser extent, Dodge) for.
Last edited by MARZ; 1/21/12 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Fixed the Camaro's resurrection year from 2010
1/21/12, 04:39 PM
#18
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The non-stop crap talk and excuses from the Camaro contingent since Ford announced the specifications for the 2013 GT500 doesn't bother me because fanboys will be fanboys. We heard it all before when Ford announced the 2011 Mustang 5.0L; the head-to-head reviews and performance specifications paint a picture completely different from what the Chevy crowd would have had you believe initially, you know, with the Camaro featuring the bigger, more-powerful engine, "superior" IRS, blah blah. However, when the source of the rhetoric is a high-profile GM executive like Al Oppenheiser, it just sounds pathetic, in my opinion. If your car's really so great, Al, let its performance speak for itself ("simulations"? Really??) Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember any high-profile Ford executives or engineers trashing GM, even despite the myriad of bad news with GM in the subject line over the past couple years (the Camaro being dead from 2002-12; GM's bankruptcy -- maybe they should have run their "how to run a company and keep from going bankrupt" simulations; the huge flop that is the Volt -- take your pick). Ford Mustang fans should thank GM for making the Camaro? The Camaro wouldn't exist if not for the Mustang, both initially and in its new, two-ton modern iteration. And, congratulations to Chevy for outselling a Mustang that has looked pretty much the same since MY 2005. While not the sales obliteration I was expecting with an all-new car and eight years of pent-up demand, a win is a win. I have no doubt that Ford will pull out all the stops for MY 2015, and that's something we can all thank Chevy (and, to a lesser extent, Dodge) for.
1/21/12, 07:16 PM
#19
MOTM Committee Member
The non-stop crap talk and excuses from the Camaro contingent since Ford announced the specifications for the 2013 GT500 doesn't bother me because fanboys will be fanboys. We heard it all before when Ford announced the 2011 Mustang 5.0L; the head-to-head reviews and performance specifications paint a picture completely different from what the Chevy crowd would have had you believe initially, you know, with the Camaro featuring the bigger, more-powerful engine, "superior" IRS, blah blah. However, when the source of the rhetoric is a high-profile GM executive like Al Oppenheiser, it just sounds pathetic, in my opinion. If your car's really so great, Al, let its performance speak for itself ("simulations"? Really??) Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember any high-profile Ford executives or engineers trashing GM, even despite the myriad of bad news with GM in the subject line over the past couple years (the Camaro being dead from 2002-10; GM's bankruptcy -- maybe they should have run their "how to run a company and keep from going bankrupt" simulations; the huge flop that is the Volt -- take your pick). Ford Mustang fans should thank GM for making the Camaro? The Camaro wouldn't exist if not for the Mustang, both initially and in its new, two-ton modern iteration. And, congratulations to Chevy for outselling a Mustang that has looked pretty much the same since MY 2005. While not the sales obliteration I was expecting with an all-new car and eight years of pent-up demand, a win is a win. I have no doubt that Ford will pull out all the stops for MY 2015, and that's something we can all thank Chevy (and, to a lesser extent, Dodge) for.
Should be stickied at the top of every thread involving the camaro here. If only that were possible lol