http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/...ra/P112987.asp



And we thought only the rear wheel drive program started in 03 was doomed....

Ouch........

 

Well, I can't say I'll be in mourning when that finally dies. Never been a huge fan.

If you want an Aztek, better get one now!!!

 

This is a worse case scenario, probably with Buick going first. The fact that GM is labeling it as a possibility speaks volume for the state of the company. It's all they talked about on TV today when covering the NY show. Pontiac better hope the Solstice is a hit.

 

Shareholders beware.

 

Looks bad for GM, can't say that I'm surprised. It's become more and more evident that GM doesn't know what consumers want. It all started with the Aztec I think.

Here is a good article: Detroit News

 

I suspect that it is a bargaining chip for talks with the UAW to give concessions.

That being said, I think if GM should drop anything, it should consider Saturn. The autonomy that the division had before is gone.

Pontiac has a good lineup. Buick does need a bit of an overhaul, but I think they are in the right segment considering Caddy has gone upmarket with cars with a more sportier feel.

Buick would be strongest fronting a lineup of traditional RWD fullsize american cars, and a Grand National as their halo car

 

I'm not sure why people think Buick will die before Pontiac. Pontiac has a lineup consisting of hold-over Grand Am coupes, G6's, an ancient Grand Prix, and the abysmal (from a sales standpoint) GTO, and the new minivan, and the upcoming Torrent. Buick has the LaCrosse and upcoming Lucerne, the Rainier, and the Terraza. Neither lineup is confidence inspiring, I'll give you that. But Buick is doing very well in China, giving it a decided advantage when the GM bean counters look at the two. Pontiac, they're just sad. They G6 and GTO aren't doing well, the Grand Am and Grand Prix are scheduled for the axe, and the Torrent and SV6 are redundant. And they just lost their Bonneville replacement, since it was Zeta-based.

 

I agree with Q`res. There will always be old people who will be driving a Buick, no matter how good/bad it may be. Pontiac, on the other hand, had and will have its ups and downs. There is no specific age of people that drive Pontiac. Same driviers that drive Pontiac will drive Chevrolet. Buick, on the other hand, does not have similar car.

That's why I think Pontiac is going down. They had really awesome cars in their history such as GTO and Firebird, but ... Plymouth had even better cars in history and now its long gone (since 1999, right?).

 

I don't know what to think. Looking at GM fan boards and the financial news it seems almost everyone is jumping ship. I predict Lutz will go away soon or there will be a "major" change. The rental fleet looking cars will go or Lutz will. I also think everyone is forgetting that the Saab portion of GM is having major issues also. Alot of Saab faithful are going to other european cars, it doesn't impact alot here but with GM's problems here and one of their major "world" brands overseas, I don't see a good future for them.

 

they won't kill pontiac....I see way more Pontiacs than Buicks on the road

 

Well, I see more Buicks/Pontiacs on the street than Cadillacs, but does that mean Buick/Pontiac is better financially that Cadillac?

 

Pontiac, Buick, and Saab are all potential "dead in the water" brands. Any of them can be axed I guess. I think GM will probably kill Pontiac last though. They will at least wait until the Solstice comes out to see what happens. Killing Pontiac will make bigger (negative) headlines than Buick as well IMHO.

Saturn isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'd bet on it. GM is run by stubborn execs that don't seem to ever admit they have done something wrong. They just make up excuses and that is why they are in this situation now. They are paying for 25 years of mistakes. I'm sure everyone on this board has read about all the mistakes they have been, and are, making.

In this case, they have already spent gobs of money into Saturn the last few years. No way can they say they are throwing in the towel on that division before the some of the others. Not only that, but it would be a shame from a customer perspective for Saturn to die as GM has finally been somewhat successfull making the brand "customer friendly".

IMO, they need to consolidate Hummer and Chevy, add more unique vehicles to Caddy to compete with BMW and other Lux brands, keep Saturn as a base to start fighting Toyota, and cut at least two of the other brands. They are just too big as it is, too much sharing and blandness, with poor management at every corner to boot. You would think the current auto designers they have graduated from an accounting school.

 

I believe gm lost like 2 billion the last quarter. You cut loose that which weighs you down when you are drowning. But it could be the beginning of the new brand:
"Buiac" not to be confused with barfing.

Last time that I was in a Pontiac Dealer, all the sales guys came out to look at my car. Back then it was an 03 Centennial Edition Vert.
Test drove the new goat. :notnice: The newer one has more HP but I doubt more buyers. I should go back with my 05.

 

He quoted one car reviewer who said, referring to GM's troubles, that the quality of the Cobalt convinced him that "the Titanic may yet turn fast enough to miss the iceberg.''
wow, how sad is that? GM is resting its fate on a 2.0 ltr supercharged front wheel drive rice rocket. we would all like to see a revival of the greats; Buick Grand National's, Camaro's, Firebird/Trans Am's...but i think reality is that the GTO might be all we get, and might be the last pontiac even worth looking at. With this news and the news of the canceled Zeta platform, i think we could all say that no Cobalt is going to save GM, they need a miracle (or maybe a clue).

 

Buick will not die, it's GM's #1 brand in China right now, and GM is very serious about the Chinese market. I think they should sell off Saab rather than kill Buick or Pontiac, but that'd make sense which is why that's the last thing GM will consider doing.

 

i remember hearing about some wallstreet analyst or somebody along those lines predicting that one of the big 3 would go under within 10 years. Its pretty obvious it won't be DC. For a while i was a little worried it could be Ford. That was like a year ago or so. At this point, I'd say i'm pretty confident in ford's future. I'd say things are looking good with the fusion, the 500 (maybe), the mercury cars, the hybrids comin up. And mazda and volvo are certainly doing well.
It definitely looks like the current top dog is the most likely candidate for a big fall. I'd say its the company i'd miss the least. I mean come on! Its by far the crappiest company name. "General Motors"?! Its gotta be the only name that's not actually a name.

 

If it happens I'd think Chevy. I forgot to mention that although Hummers are still selling okay they aren't pushing them out like they did the first year.

 

H2 sales have dropped like... uhhh,... pants... in a frat house... across from the dean's office window...

you get the point~!

 

I was watching Autoline Detroit and they were talking about the panic all three of the companies were in but keyed on GM the most. GM needs a makeover in a bad way.