New Camaro/Firebird?
4/18/05, 07:41 PM
#41
Sales were poor in the 90's no doubt about it, but in the 80's the Camaro was a volume seller.
I sold the Galaxie in October, it was too much work for me. There would be no chance for me to get to it now anyways, as I am now working 50 miles away and I am beat when I get home.
Originally posted by Red Star@April 18, 2005, 7:35 PM
By the way, how's your Galaxie project going? Are you gonna be done anytime soon?
By the way, how's your Galaxie project going? Are you gonna be done anytime soon?
4/18/05, 07:58 PM
#42
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Originally posted by Galaxie@April 18, 2005, 7:44 PM
Sales were poor in the 90's no doubt about it, but in the 80's the Camaro was a volume seller.
Sales were poor in the 90's no doubt about it, but in the 80's the Camaro was a volume seller.
1980: 152,005
1981: 126,139
1982: 182,068
1983: 153,831
1984: 261,108
1985: 179,814
1986: 192,108
1987: 137,760
1988: 96,275
1989: 110,739
4/18/05, 08:19 PM
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...and who's to say chevy needs the Camaro, I wouldn't touch that nameplate, every car thats been brought back lately has been a dissapointment, I'd get a new name and a car with the same formula as the Camaro...
BTW Galaxie, what year of Galaxie did you have? I have a '63(hence the name)
BTW Galaxie, what year of Galaxie did you have? I have a '63(hence the name)
4/18/05, 08:24 PM
#44
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Originally posted by 63galaxie@April 18, 2005, 8:22 PM
I'd get a new name and a car with the same formula as the Camaro...
I'd get a new name and a car with the same formula as the Camaro...
4/19/05, 07:57 PM
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I think 1986/87 was a good year for both Camero and Firebird. By 93 the same body had been used for 10 years - look at jump 94 sales when the 'new' style came out. This is a hint to Ford: keep the Mustang updated, just don't change paint/colors, etc and expect sales of 190,000 each year. Should we expect a totally new Mustang in 2010?
4/20/05, 11:37 AM
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Have you ever seen such a caricature of a car get into production?
4/20/05, 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Vermillion98+April 20, 2005, 10:40 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vermillion98 @ April 20, 2005, 10:40 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ponywheels@April 19, 2005, 9:40 PM
Gm should consider this .
Gm should consider this .
Have you ever seen such a caricature of a car get into production?
[/b][/quote]
4/20/05, 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Vermillion98+April 20, 2005, 10:40 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vermillion98 @ April 20, 2005, 10:40 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-ponywheels@April 19, 2005, 9:40 PM
Why is it all the 3-D model "concepts" made by that 19-year-old guy Kris Horton(his models were featured in Popular Hotrodding magazine) look like cartoons? They're all humpy and bumpy and don't seem to have a straight line on them anywhere on the body.
Have you ever seen such a caricature of a car get into production?
Why is it all the 3-D model "concepts" made by that 19-year-old guy Kris Horton(his models were featured in Popular Hotrodding magazine) look like cartoons? They're all humpy and bumpy and don't seem to have a straight line on them anywhere on the body.
Have you ever seen such a caricature of a car get into production?
[/b][/quote]
The Solstice is curvy (but in subtle way) ; to me it works because it's an original design. The Horton 3-d models look like caricatures or cartoons of a '69 Camaro's design. They remind me of the way political cartoonists draw politcians.
To each his own I guess....
4/20/05, 03:19 PM
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They've already scrapped the Zeta program which is what this would've been built on. It's not going to happen; that's why GM is going down the tube. They are now the weakest of the Big 3 automakers.
GM pulls plug on '08 line of cars
Product czar Bob Lutz wants to speed new trucks, SUVs to market faster.
GM pulls plug on '08 line of cars
Product czar Bob Lutz wants to speed new trucks, SUVs to market faster.
By Ed Garsten / The Detroit News
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DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. has killed plans for a new line of rear-wheel drive passenger cars slated to reach North American showrooms in 2008, in large part to free up resources to bring its next generation of large pickups and sport utility vehicles to market quicker.
The news comes after GM reassured investors, suppliers and Wall Street analysts last week that future car and truck programs would remain on schedule despite a new cost-cutting effort.
The automaker is under severe pressure to streamline after announcing last week its 2005 earnings would fall as much as 80 percent below previous estimates.
"While work on particular North American applications of our premium rear-wheel drive midsize vehicle architecture have indeed been stopped, we have begun to study new approaches to efficiently capitalize on future opportunities we see for future midsize rear-wheel drive applications," Marc Beckers, a spokesman for GM, said.
The rear-drive "global architecture" -- dubbed Zeta -- was to provide the basic underpinnings for an array of cars and crossover vehicles for markets around the world. It will continue to be the basis for products sold in regions outside North America.
GM's decision to kill the Zeta program puts the brakes on development of the next generation Pontiac GTO sports car, and new entries for Chevrolet, Buick and Pontiac. The current GTO is already being produced by GM's Holden unit in Australia.
Bob Lutz, GM's vice chairman for product development, canceled development of the premium rear-wheel models for North America, according to two people familiar with the situation.
It was Lutz who first championed the new rear-wheel drive platform. The renowned car expert announced the Zeta program in 2003 as the industry was turning its attention toward rear-wheel drive vehicles.
But he pulled the plug on the North America models after determining the vehicles could not be engineered and assembled to sell at prices competitive with the popular Chrysler 300C, Ford Mustang and other models, without sacrificing quality and content.
In addition, GM is anxious to free up resources to speed up the launch of its new line of full-size pickup trucks. They are not expected to arrive until 2006.
Many in the industry expected the Zeta architecture would mean the return of the Chevrolet Camaro and production versions of the Buick Velite concept car, which debuted at the 2004 New York auto show to rave reviews.
"This is scary. It puts GM behind the eight ball," said Joseph Phillippi of AutoTrends Consulting in Short Hills, N.J. "It makes you wonder why can't they get it right. Where does it seemingly go wrong?"
The retreat from Zeta could delay the introduction of GM's new rear-wheel drive passenger cars by at least a year, Phillippi said.
That's bad news for the automaker, which has seen only lukewarm early sales for several of its newly launched products, such as the Pontiac G6, Chevrolet Cobalt and Buick LaCrosse. The new Chevrolet Equinox, a small SUV, has been a strong seller.
Global Insight market analyst John Wolkonowicz said GM's decision to stop the development of Zeta-based vehicles for North America means a missed opportunity to compete.
"The Chrysler 300C is a watershed car like the 1986 Ford Taurus," said Wolkonowicz. "With Zeta, GM had an answer."
For sure, GM has not given up on rear-wheel drive vehicles. Two roadsters, the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky, will be rear-wheel drive entries. Other rear-wheel drive GM cars include the Cadillac CTS and STS sedans, the Chevrolet Corvette and the Pontiac GTO.
GM Chairman Rick Wagoner last week said there would be no reduction in capital spending in light of the abrupt profit warning and signaled new product programs would be safe from the budget ax.
"Product remains the first and most important element of the strategy to get North America on track," he said.
Through February, GM sales are down 10 percent from last year and its market share has slipped to 24.9 percent, compared with 26.7 percent a year ago, according to Autodata Corp.
"When you have an automaker struggling from a market share or sales standpoint, the worst thing you can do is slow introduction of product," said Erich Merkle, an analyst with Grand Rapids consultants IRN Inc. "It may point to some issues GM is having internally, perhaps from a communication perspective between what the market wants and what GM can afford."
You can reach Ed Garsten at (313) 223-3217 or egarsten@detnews.com.
Comment on this story
Send this story to a friend
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DETROIT -- General Motors Corp. has killed plans for a new line of rear-wheel drive passenger cars slated to reach North American showrooms in 2008, in large part to free up resources to bring its next generation of large pickups and sport utility vehicles to market quicker.
The news comes after GM reassured investors, suppliers and Wall Street analysts last week that future car and truck programs would remain on schedule despite a new cost-cutting effort.
The automaker is under severe pressure to streamline after announcing last week its 2005 earnings would fall as much as 80 percent below previous estimates.
"While work on particular North American applications of our premium rear-wheel drive midsize vehicle architecture have indeed been stopped, we have begun to study new approaches to efficiently capitalize on future opportunities we see for future midsize rear-wheel drive applications," Marc Beckers, a spokesman for GM, said.
The rear-drive "global architecture" -- dubbed Zeta -- was to provide the basic underpinnings for an array of cars and crossover vehicles for markets around the world. It will continue to be the basis for products sold in regions outside North America.
GM's decision to kill the Zeta program puts the brakes on development of the next generation Pontiac GTO sports car, and new entries for Chevrolet, Buick and Pontiac. The current GTO is already being produced by GM's Holden unit in Australia.
Bob Lutz, GM's vice chairman for product development, canceled development of the premium rear-wheel models for North America, according to two people familiar with the situation.
It was Lutz who first championed the new rear-wheel drive platform. The renowned car expert announced the Zeta program in 2003 as the industry was turning its attention toward rear-wheel drive vehicles.
But he pulled the plug on the North America models after determining the vehicles could not be engineered and assembled to sell at prices competitive with the popular Chrysler 300C, Ford Mustang and other models, without sacrificing quality and content.
In addition, GM is anxious to free up resources to speed up the launch of its new line of full-size pickup trucks. They are not expected to arrive until 2006.
Many in the industry expected the Zeta architecture would mean the return of the Chevrolet Camaro and production versions of the Buick Velite concept car, which debuted at the 2004 New York auto show to rave reviews.
"This is scary. It puts GM behind the eight ball," said Joseph Phillippi of AutoTrends Consulting in Short Hills, N.J. "It makes you wonder why can't they get it right. Where does it seemingly go wrong?"
The retreat from Zeta could delay the introduction of GM's new rear-wheel drive passenger cars by at least a year, Phillippi said.
That's bad news for the automaker, which has seen only lukewarm early sales for several of its newly launched products, such as the Pontiac G6, Chevrolet Cobalt and Buick LaCrosse. The new Chevrolet Equinox, a small SUV, has been a strong seller.
Global Insight market analyst John Wolkonowicz said GM's decision to stop the development of Zeta-based vehicles for North America means a missed opportunity to compete.
"The Chrysler 300C is a watershed car like the 1986 Ford Taurus," said Wolkonowicz. "With Zeta, GM had an answer."
For sure, GM has not given up on rear-wheel drive vehicles. Two roadsters, the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky, will be rear-wheel drive entries. Other rear-wheel drive GM cars include the Cadillac CTS and STS sedans, the Chevrolet Corvette and the Pontiac GTO.
GM Chairman Rick Wagoner last week said there would be no reduction in capital spending in light of the abrupt profit warning and signaled new product programs would be safe from the budget ax.
"Product remains the first and most important element of the strategy to get North America on track," he said.
Through February, GM sales are down 10 percent from last year and its market share has slipped to 24.9 percent, compared with 26.7 percent a year ago, according to Autodata Corp.
"When you have an automaker struggling from a market share or sales standpoint, the worst thing you can do is slow introduction of product," said Erich Merkle, an analyst with Grand Rapids consultants IRN Inc. "It may point to some issues GM is having internally, perhaps from a communication perspective between what the market wants and what GM can afford."
You can reach Ed Garsten at (313) 223-3217 or egarsten@detnews.com.
4/20/05, 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by Galaxie@April 20, 2005, 8:01 PM
They are already talking about reviving zeta or building a lower cost version of the sigma.
Never know, a Camaro might show up with a solid axle as well... how about that?
They are already talking about reviving zeta or building a lower cost version of the sigma.
Never know, a Camaro might show up with a solid axle as well... how about that?
oh please oh please oh please.
K-lutz, if you do could anything right in your reign of terror, this is it. build the Horton Camaro. you wil make sooo many people happy. oh and scrap that stupid SSR and HHR instead of the freakin Zeta platform!!! cant you do anything right?!
4/20/05, 11:26 PM
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Heritage High Roof. Imagine the PT Cruiser. No, not mixed with anything ... just the PT Cruiser. Now you understand
Future9er, the Horton design would never be built anyhow. They will never build something that didn't come from in-house. I've already mentioned the engineering problems, and the cost issues.
Whatever they build, it probably won't look much like that.
Future9er, the Horton design would never be built anyhow. They will never build something that didn't come from in-house. I've already mentioned the engineering problems, and the cost issues.
Whatever they build, it probably won't look much like that.
4/20/05, 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by Final5pt0@April 20, 2005, 10:24 PM
ok i know the ssr but whats this HHR that everyones mentioning? :scratch:
ok i know the ssr but whats this HHR that everyones mentioning? :scratch:
4/20/05, 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by matic@April 20, 2005, 10:29 PM
Heritage High Roof. Imagine the PT Cruiser. No, not mixed with anything ... just the PT Cruiser. Now you understand
Future9er, the Horton design would never be built anyhow. They will never build something that didn't come from in-house. I've already mentioned the engineering problems, and the cost issues.
Whatever they build, it probably won't look much like that.
Heritage High Roof. Imagine the PT Cruiser. No, not mixed with anything ... just the PT Cruiser. Now you understand
Future9er, the Horton design would never be built anyhow. They will never build something that didn't come from in-house. I've already mentioned the engineering problems, and the cost issues.
Whatever they build, it probably won't look much like that.