Modding Your Car May Become Illegal
4/20/15, 08:46 PM
#1
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Join Date: May 6, 2013
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Warning to Mustang Tuners/Modders
For my Mustang compadres who like to mod their Mustangs, be aware of what the car manufacturers, including Ford, would like to do:
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/
Check out the article on Autoblog. In short, but read the article, car manufacturers would like to make it illegal, based on copyright law, to change/modify your car. It focuses heavily on ECU tuning, and other software based systems, but it doesn't exclude issues over different brakes, drive line components, or other significant mechanical changes. It refers to all cars, of course, not just Fords or Mustangs.
I know for me, the Mustang is the king of the aftermarket. I cannot imagine owning one without changing it (until I get my GT350, maybe). That aside, this is a real concern if their lobbyists get law passed to limit or make illegal such mods. IMO, using copyright law won't work, but they want to do something about it! They may never be successful, but it ain't "conspiracy theory" paranoia either.
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/20/a...s-car-repairs/
Check out the article on Autoblog. In short, but read the article, car manufacturers would like to make it illegal, based on copyright law, to change/modify your car. It focuses heavily on ECU tuning, and other software based systems, but it doesn't exclude issues over different brakes, drive line components, or other significant mechanical changes. It refers to all cars, of course, not just Fords or Mustangs.
I know for me, the Mustang is the king of the aftermarket. I cannot imagine owning one without changing it (until I get my GT350, maybe). That aside, this is a real concern if their lobbyists get law passed to limit or make illegal such mods. IMO, using copyright law won't work, but they want to do something about it! They may never be successful, but it ain't "conspiracy theory" paranoia either.
Last edited by Dinosoar; 4/20/15 at 08:48 PM.
4/21/15, 01:13 PM
#7
Honestly I see both sides of the argument. Cheating safety features should not be allowed, period. But if the government wants safe cars on the road, then federal mandatory yearly inspections should be enforced and LEO's should actively cite cars with bad tires/rims, cracked windwhields, lights out, brake noise (metal on metal), u-joint squeak, noise (Harleys), etc. But it's not about safety, it's about greedy automakers wanting a piece of a pie they are not getting, absorbing a liability when mods go wrong, or proving a mod caused a failure. But on the other hand, how many of their own warranty items do they try to get out form under? GM, Ford, & Mopar do this thousands of times per day. They put an inferioir product out and some people find the weaknesses due to harsh driving environments while other drivers just drive around never knowing that same part will fail long out of the warranty period because it has not been stressed like the others that failed "prematurely."
4/21/15, 03:30 PM
#8
Modding Your Car May Become Illegal
Yes you read that title correctly. Numerous automotive corporations, to include Ford, do not want you working on your own car. To that end they are pressing the Federal Government under the copyright protection act (specifically the DMCA) to make it illegal for you to modify your car in any way that affects the ECU. That means no CAI's with a tune. No superchargers. You wouldn't even be allowed to change your tire size because the requires resetting the speedometer through the ECU. You can read all about it at the link.
http://jalopnik.com/carmakers-want-t...eca-1699132210
When you think about all the aspects of your car this affects it becomes clear.
Want a different exhaust system? Long tube headers maybe? Nope, illegal.
Turbocharger? Sorry, illegal.
Change the shift points so your automatic shifts harder? Sorry.
Even changing the rear axle gear ratio requires a change to the ECU. That would now be illegal.
To be clear, this would not be a case of just negating your warranty. It would in fact become a criminal act to make these changes to your car.
Your own car.
That you paid good money for.
Anyone still think corporate America gives a crap about you?
http://jalopnik.com/carmakers-want-t...eca-1699132210
When you think about all the aspects of your car this affects it becomes clear.
Want a different exhaust system? Long tube headers maybe? Nope, illegal.
Turbocharger? Sorry, illegal.
Change the shift points so your automatic shifts harder? Sorry.
Even changing the rear axle gear ratio requires a change to the ECU. That would now be illegal.
To be clear, this would not be a case of just negating your warranty. It would in fact become a criminal act to make these changes to your car.
Your own car.
That you paid good money for.
Anyone still think corporate America gives a crap about you?
Last edited by 3point7; 4/21/15 at 03:37 PM.
4/21/15, 07:36 PM
#11
When they first introduced holding taxes from paychecks a member of congress wanted legislation passed to cap the taxation amount at something like 2 or 3 percent. He was laughed out of congress for even suggesting it.
They said it would never happen. It would never get that high.
Currently the average person has about 34% of their paycheck with held in taxes.
Never underestimate the power of rich corporations to screw you over by way of the government.
4/21/15, 07:45 PM
#12
Mach 1 Member
When they first introduced holding taxes from paychecks a member of congress wanted legislation passed to cap the taxation amount at something like 2 or 3 percent. He was laughed out of congress for even suggesting it.
They said it would never happen. It would never get that high.
Currently the average person has about 34% of their paycheck with held in taxes.
Never underestimate the power of rich corporations to screw you over by way of the government.
They said it would never happen. It would never get that high.
Currently the average person has about 34% of their paycheck with held in taxes.
Never underestimate the power of rich corporations to screw you over by way of the government.
4/21/15, 10:23 PM
#14
Not is all the Butt heads line up behind the self steering, Driving or Telemetry in our cars. You will not be able to mod it at all. The Feds will turn your car off. It is Crazy what the Iddiots in the federal Gov want to control. Hury up and Buy your last car because most will have the electronics to talk to your Gov and or the insurance company. I will tell you that a few already have this in them... Stay Tuned No Wait you cant. LOL
4/21/15, 10:34 PM
#15
I have posted a response on another thread about this. It is already happening to the cars with all the Nanys that can steer for you Put the brakes on . All the Drive by wire cars can communicate. Now if all the Idiots want the car to drive for you then well It is connected. Poeple are so stuppid they will sign up for all the gadgets and not understand what will happen.
4/21/15, 11:31 PM
#16
The DMCA creates a giant mess because it's an open ended law that allows radical changes to it without further legislation.
But take a deep breath here. Copyright protects, and always has protected, the original programming of the computer. So it basically is illegal to reverse engineer or modify the ECU's programming. I don't like it, but I can believe that.
But based on the current state of affairs regarding unlocking and rooting cell phones, I don't believe they will be able to use the DMCA to prevent you from completely overwriting the program with one from a different source (that you presumably have the rights to). In order to do that, they'll need to appeal to safety, air quality, etc. Somewhere else in the executive branch.
But also remember, if they did somehow use DMCA to prevent you from modifying the ECU, the aftermarket would likely respond with their own ECU for direct replacement. This is what they did before programmable ECUs, so if they prevent you from programming the ECU it's essentially the same situation. More money is the only problem in this case.
So be upset, be annoyed, but don't be afraid, I'm near certain there will always be options.
But take a deep breath here. Copyright protects, and always has protected, the original programming of the computer. So it basically is illegal to reverse engineer or modify the ECU's programming. I don't like it, but I can believe that.
But based on the current state of affairs regarding unlocking and rooting cell phones, I don't believe they will be able to use the DMCA to prevent you from completely overwriting the program with one from a different source (that you presumably have the rights to). In order to do that, they'll need to appeal to safety, air quality, etc. Somewhere else in the executive branch.
But also remember, if they did somehow use DMCA to prevent you from modifying the ECU, the aftermarket would likely respond with their own ECU for direct replacement. This is what they did before programmable ECUs, so if they prevent you from programming the ECU it's essentially the same situation. More money is the only problem in this case.
So be upset, be annoyed, but don't be afraid, I'm near certain there will always be options.
4/22/15, 03:17 AM
#17
V6 Member
Not gonna happen, just like Apple tried to do with jailbreaking their phones. Courts ruled it completely legal to jailbreak the iPhone. Same with Sony, trying to use the same laws to make modding Playstations illegal. Failed, courts ruled that legal too.
Completely unenforceable anyhow. Almost a quarter of states have no inspections at all, several others that don't even check safety equipment...so who's going to know what's been done to your car? Not worth worrying over. Unlikely any state\federal agency would want to put a hurting on their own coffers, either, since it's an estimated 318 billion dollar market in the US (~2.3%GDP), and that's a lot of tax dollars that would be lost to such restrictions. They tend to put up restrictions that actually make them money, not restrictions that would cost them.
This is looks, to me, more likely to be another prelude to another industry push against the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, since their only real concerns seem to be financial concerns regarding corporate liability (re: warranties) on non-factory equipped vehicles, and the stealerships (which, with Tesla's new direct to customer model threatening their existence in the long-term, are more and more desperate) wanting to try to create a monopoly on your vehicle's repairs.
This article's information may be accurate, but I highly doubt its conclusions or the viability of the industry's attempts to rein in our modding\DIY repairs. On the incredibly off-chance that they succeed in court, it's nothing that some good old fashioned en masse civil disobedience wouldn't fix straightaway anyhow. They can't possibly try\sue ALL of us. We are DIY modders and mechanics, car nuts and gear heads. We are legion. And they can't stop us, because they need us. I mean, 318 BILLION dollars spent on the automotive aftermarket in 2013, in the US alone. That's a lot of people spending a lot of money. That means there's a lot of passionate people that would be seriously ticked off should this come to pass. If every one of those people stood up and said "No.", could the industry OR the courts possibly enforce such a law? Short answer: No.
Your only concern right now should be how you're going to convince the only real "powers that be" that your modding habit is allowable...aka, your spouse\significant other\parents\financial reality. Or at least how to hide it from them
Other than that...smile, because you have one of the most aftermarket friendly, mod-able and downright badass cars on market, and a passion that places you among literally millions of others that share that same passion, and go about your business as you always have.
Completely unenforceable anyhow. Almost a quarter of states have no inspections at all, several others that don't even check safety equipment...so who's going to know what's been done to your car? Not worth worrying over. Unlikely any state\federal agency would want to put a hurting on their own coffers, either, since it's an estimated 318 billion dollar market in the US (~2.3%GDP), and that's a lot of tax dollars that would be lost to such restrictions. They tend to put up restrictions that actually make them money, not restrictions that would cost them.
This is looks, to me, more likely to be another prelude to another industry push against the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, since their only real concerns seem to be financial concerns regarding corporate liability (re: warranties) on non-factory equipped vehicles, and the stealerships (which, with Tesla's new direct to customer model threatening their existence in the long-term, are more and more desperate) wanting to try to create a monopoly on your vehicle's repairs.
This article's information may be accurate, but I highly doubt its conclusions or the viability of the industry's attempts to rein in our modding\DIY repairs. On the incredibly off-chance that they succeed in court, it's nothing that some good old fashioned en masse civil disobedience wouldn't fix straightaway anyhow. They can't possibly try\sue ALL of us. We are DIY modders and mechanics, car nuts and gear heads. We are legion. And they can't stop us, because they need us. I mean, 318 BILLION dollars spent on the automotive aftermarket in 2013, in the US alone. That's a lot of people spending a lot of money. That means there's a lot of passionate people that would be seriously ticked off should this come to pass. If every one of those people stood up and said "No.", could the industry OR the courts possibly enforce such a law? Short answer: No.
Your only concern right now should be how you're going to convince the only real "powers that be" that your modding habit is allowable...aka, your spouse\significant other\parents\financial reality. Or at least how to hide it from them
Other than that...smile, because you have one of the most aftermarket friendly, mod-able and downright badass cars on market, and a passion that places you among literally millions of others that share that same passion, and go about your business as you always have.
4/22/15, 04:34 AM
#18
FR500 Member
4/22/15, 07:40 AM
#19
Legacy TMS Member
^ This is the heart of the matter right here.
I read the comments on the 5 classes. The manufacturers don't want trade secrets, security, safety, or emissions/efficiencies (and a few others, I'm sure) to be tampered with, even by accident, much less an 'on purpose' thing. So the *base* programming must be left alone.
According to them.
Now, as far as not being afraid... well, no, be a bit afraid, because they can go way overboard in the protection, causing years and years of litigation regarding a tune or such... and kill the market completely.
Here's why: They will, with the right 'clearance' declare that the *replacement* of the code is also bad. And they will shut down the replacement computer makers. Because they all talk to each other in the car, one, and they *obviously* reverse engineered the thing, two, to be able to do the talking, or the work arounds.
This classification that's they're going after (or asking to be exempt from) is both a bad and good deal. It *wholly* depends on how they determine what is and what is not allowed, not just the whole car or nothing, as appears to be the current case.
Legalities are just SO complicated... Ugh.
I read the comments on the 5 classes. The manufacturers don't want trade secrets, security, safety, or emissions/efficiencies (and a few others, I'm sure) to be tampered with, even by accident, much less an 'on purpose' thing. So the *base* programming must be left alone.
According to them.
Now, as far as not being afraid... well, no, be a bit afraid, because they can go way overboard in the protection, causing years and years of litigation regarding a tune or such... and kill the market completely.
Here's why: They will, with the right 'clearance' declare that the *replacement* of the code is also bad. And they will shut down the replacement computer makers. Because they all talk to each other in the car, one, and they *obviously* reverse engineered the thing, two, to be able to do the talking, or the work arounds.
This classification that's they're going after (or asking to be exempt from) is both a bad and good deal. It *wholly* depends on how they determine what is and what is not allowed, not just the whole car or nothing, as appears to be the current case.
Legalities are just SO complicated... Ugh.
Last edited by houtex; 4/22/15 at 07:41 AM.
4/22/15, 09:17 AM
#20
^ This is the heart of the matter right here.
I read the comments on the 5 classes. The manufacturers don't want trade secrets, security, safety, or emissions/efficiencies (and a few others, I'm sure) to be tampered with, even by accident, much less an 'on purpose' thing. So the *base* programming must be left alone.
According to them.
Now, as far as not being afraid... well, no, be a bit afraid, because they can go way overboard in the protection, causing years and years of litigation regarding a tune or such... and kill the market completely.
Here's why: They will, with the right 'clearance' declare that the *replacement* of the code is also bad. And they will shut down the replacement computer makers. Because they all talk to each other in the car, one, and they *obviously* reverse engineered the thing, two, to be able to do the talking, or the work arounds.
This classification that's they're going after (or asking to be exempt from) is both a bad and good deal. It *wholly* depends on how they determine what is and what is not allowed, not just the whole car or nothing, as appears to be the current case.
Legalities are just SO complicated... Ugh.
I read the comments on the 5 classes. The manufacturers don't want trade secrets, security, safety, or emissions/efficiencies (and a few others, I'm sure) to be tampered with, even by accident, much less an 'on purpose' thing. So the *base* programming must be left alone.
According to them.
Now, as far as not being afraid... well, no, be a bit afraid, because they can go way overboard in the protection, causing years and years of litigation regarding a tune or such... and kill the market completely.
Here's why: They will, with the right 'clearance' declare that the *replacement* of the code is also bad. And they will shut down the replacement computer makers. Because they all talk to each other in the car, one, and they *obviously* reverse engineered the thing, two, to be able to do the talking, or the work arounds.
This classification that's they're going after (or asking to be exempt from) is both a bad and good deal. It *wholly* depends on how they determine what is and what is not allowed, not just the whole car or nothing, as appears to be the current case.
Legalities are just SO complicated... Ugh.
I think I could have said it better. We can be encouraged by the fact that completely locking us out of modifying our own cars is not exactly supported by the DMCA.
In your example, yes, if you have to reverse engineer a different part of the system to make the aftermarket computer, there still may be some legal risk. But, you didn't have to modify the code in that other computer in the system. So now you're talking about a whole other (and I believe harder for the OEM) path to blocking that activity.
I think this is more difficult for the OEMs than they'd like everyone to believe.
