Looks Like Curtains For GM
11/13/05, 01:10 PM
#22
GM is in a deep hole right now... its hard to say if they will be able to turn things around. All I know is if they want to suceed, things need to be dramatic.
I read autoextremist and agree with a lot of points Peter DeLorenzo says.
A big problem with GM is they are reacting very slowly to shifting tastes. When gas prices first started rising in 1999 (at least they were here). It should have been an omen that prices could spike and sales could be lost in the SUV market. Now GM is rushing to get "crossovers" to the market, but they won't be here until MY'07 and '08.
Lutz gets criticized a lot of shoddy products. I think the problem is he is running his mouth and pushing warmed-over products that he didn't really get a chance to influence. Even the most skeptical automotive critics have said the upcoming products are stunning, including the Mailbu, the Crossovers, the CTS.
The problem is again, timing. Ford, as bad as they are doing, will beat GM to market with their newest generation of crossovers. The Fusion is a great looking midsize entry already on the market taking potential sales from GM.
I really don't think GM (and Ford) will be able to compete with the Japanese for the next few years, the crossroad for both companies is when the UAW contract expires. Unless the UAW is willing to give concessions, they are in big trouble.
The same goes for the management structure, they really need to do a house cleaning in there and get rid of managers managing mangers managing managers.
I read autoextremist and agree with a lot of points Peter DeLorenzo says.
A big problem with GM is they are reacting very slowly to shifting tastes. When gas prices first started rising in 1999 (at least they were here). It should have been an omen that prices could spike and sales could be lost in the SUV market. Now GM is rushing to get "crossovers" to the market, but they won't be here until MY'07 and '08.
Lutz gets criticized a lot of shoddy products. I think the problem is he is running his mouth and pushing warmed-over products that he didn't really get a chance to influence. Even the most skeptical automotive critics have said the upcoming products are stunning, including the Mailbu, the Crossovers, the CTS.
The problem is again, timing. Ford, as bad as they are doing, will beat GM to market with their newest generation of crossovers. The Fusion is a great looking midsize entry already on the market taking potential sales from GM.
I really don't think GM (and Ford) will be able to compete with the Japanese for the next few years, the crossroad for both companies is when the UAW contract expires. Unless the UAW is willing to give concessions, they are in big trouble.
The same goes for the management structure, they really need to do a house cleaning in there and get rid of managers managing mangers managing managers.
11/13/05, 01:51 PM
#23
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Originally posted by Galaxie@November 13, 2005, 3:13 PM
The same goes for the management structure, they really need to do a house cleaning in there and get rid of managers managing mangers managing managers.
The same goes for the management structure, they really need to do a house cleaning in there and get rid of managers managing mangers managing managers.
11/13/05, 02:48 PM
#24
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No Arin, I don't have a link. It was in the magazine.
Anyway, I think GMC has too many issues for anyone to buy them out. Its a big chunk of rotten meat to chew. To complete buy them out would be basically dooming any company.
If a foreign company were to buy them out the UAW would tear everything apart. In that sense I think you would have not one but two companies on the verge of bankruptcy then, not that I would really care if a foreign manufacturer went bankrupt
Again while Ford continues to innovate and move along and adapt, (which I still think will change things in the automotive industry in the next few years, but thats a whole aother topic)
GM continues to do what Knight said basically. Pump out more and more random product hoping it will be a hit.
They have no accolades like Ford does in safety, innovation, or anything regarding their products (sans Corvette).
Anyway, I think GMC has too many issues for anyone to buy them out. Its a big chunk of rotten meat to chew. To complete buy them out would be basically dooming any company.
If a foreign company were to buy them out the UAW would tear everything apart. In that sense I think you would have not one but two companies on the verge of bankruptcy then, not that I would really care if a foreign manufacturer went bankrupt
Again while Ford continues to innovate and move along and adapt, (which I still think will change things in the automotive industry in the next few years, but thats a whole aother topic)
GM continues to do what Knight said basically. Pump out more and more random product hoping it will be a hit.
They have no accolades like Ford does in safety, innovation, or anything regarding their products (sans Corvette).
11/14/05, 03:12 AM
#25
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Originally posted by mustang_sallad@November 13, 2005, 10:05 AM
ford would just be scrambling to keep up with these foreign powered super companies...
ford would just be scrambling to keep up with these foreign powered super companies...
Though I did come across a great article that nicely sums up Ford's problems and what they need to do to turn things around:
How To Save Ford
Ford Motor Company has fallen on hard times. The fresh new designs aren’t selling - the dependable old SUV’s and F150’s are sitting on the lots, endangered species threatened by looming $4 per gallon gasoline prices - and the competition is offering better looking, better running, more dependable vehicles at lower prices. Insular, “hide your head in the sand and maybe they’ll go away†management has failed to fill the pipeline with the cars and trucks needed to match the new market realities. The massive problems with quality that plagued them in the 70’s and 80’s are thankfully gone, but that just means that buyers are now shopping for style, performance and utility rather than simply how many tiny flaws can be spotted on a new car by J.D. Powers and Associates geeks.
Speaking of the paramount importance of styling, Ford VP Mays, self-anointed “chief creative officer“, has fled the s-storm in Detroit and set up shop in his preferred digs in London, his fresh, newly recognized “center of the creative universeâ€. While the white collar faithful back in the USA have their morale hammered by yet another decimation of their ranks (Ford has just announced plans to axe 20,000 workers, mostly white collared), he and his cronies lounge in the salons of Soho dreaming up ugly new Ford 500’s, Freestyles and diesel-powered Escapes so as to plague their long-suffering dealers. Bill Ford, a Mays admirer, doubtless has given them their marching orders: Design gorgeous bodies for the hybrid vehicles to make them more saleable (which would mean they were selling at all, of course) - design the successor to the Think electric cars (have they shipped all those ill-fated partial-birth abortions back to Euroland yet?) - oh, and be sure to pen some quickie layouts for the glue-on decals for the exciting new SVT Ford 500, SVT Escape (er, Adrenaline), and the SVT Freestyle (no, that‘s been canceled, but a new image for the Edsel-clone and utterly failed vehicle when its reintroduced in 2008 or whenever will doubtless be a high priority).
If Ford wants to save Ford (and how many entendre’s can one find in that simple phrase ?), he might give some thought to the following:
1. Quit blaming the lack of sales and profits on health costs, the unions and retirees. His competition has all the same problems, so a level playing field has already been achieved. Sure, some of the guys build components in countries where the labor is cheap and the UAW doesn’t exist - so does Ford. Just because folks have believed the old bromide that “they can’t make any profits because of the evil unions†in the past doesn’t mean that the same lame excuse will play today. He might even discover that the unions would talk sanely if management ceases to blame them for all the ills of the world… I'll buy this argument the day we see the union designing and engineering cars nobody wants to buy - a function wholy owned by Ford management, not union members.
2. Fix some recent mistakes. Axing middle management engineers creating things like the GT just before you bring it to market was unwise (yes, I’m talking about Colleti here). What should have been a shining corporate icon in a dark product universe has been dulled by bonehead problems with castings that break and $275,000, 200mph sports cars gathering dust in dealer’s maintenance bays waiting on parts. (Of course, why the $140,000 GT’s are being gouged at twice the price by desperate dealers is just another indication of systemic failure). If you can rehire some of the talent you ran off, it might save your hiney.
Depriving the Ford SVT fans of their cherished Lightnings, SVT Foci and Cobras just so you could win some low level corporate coup was misplaced schoolyard ego at best.
3. Regain control over the design process. The picture of an American corporate icon like Ford lacking a design center and being totally dependent on the whims of a flake squatting in a flat in London is not a pretty one. Disconnecting from the American buying public and plugging into the non-car-driving, artsy set in urban England is no way to fix the problem. Many of the new designs don’t appeal and don’t sell. You’ve got a serious mismatch between your designers and your market. You need the American shopper - and they don’t live in Soho. This is a key problem. Fix it or die.
4. Finances. If you want to stop whimpering about money, and really want to make a change that can help everybody, pick up Neal Boortz’s new book about a national retail sales tax to replace the income tax. Want to streamline white collar labor costs and free up capital to invest in your company? Imagine the savings when you don’t need tax lawyers, accountants and the IT and clerical support staff that goes with them! Between the direct costs of complying with federal corporate income tax rules, and accounting for all your employee’s income tax withholding needs, the savings would be huge. Add the sudden lack of that overhead to price competition with foreign auto manufacturers, and suddenly it will be THEM squealing about unfair price advantage!
5. Dust off all those market segment studies and plan cars that match the segments. Wake up - forget the fantasy that you create markets, and realize that you need to respond to the real markets with real solutions.
5.1. Toyota’s Scion line is an excellent example. Do that, and do 2 versions - one for Mercury, too.
5.2. Give poor old Mercury some help - you simply can’t afford (unlike GM, who seems to think nothing of killing off entire car marques) to let Mercury die. Bring back the Cougar - use the power of the new Mustang (your sole success story this year, lack of Mustang GT supply and the disollution of SVT notwithstanding) to build up Mercury dealers. Get a young, meat-eating American designer to pen the simple changes (keep her close to the Mustang, keep the design changes simple but potent). Maybe make the lines just a touch more European… Make the BMW boys sweat.
5.3. Add back the Mustang niche models you axed - the new Shelby is great, but add a Mach 1 (the new body lines were meant for this) and an IRS option for the Shelby, if not a complete new Cobra (use the 4.6 with a blower and IRS - finely tuned suspension - leave the Shelby for the cruizers and drag racers, make the Cobra the road racer).
5.4. Revive the Lightning. Put the same 5.4 in as the new Shelby.
5.5. Bring out the Adrenaline, too, but don’t plan on selling as many of these as you do of the Lightning. Its still a butt-ugly overall design.
5.6. Revive the SVT Focus. Get some AWD action in this lineup to compete with the Subarus. Add a turbo.
5.7. Kill the Freestyle ASAP. Money pit, and that’s it. No need to resurrect the corpse - let it die.
5.8. Put some effort into a new Ranger pickup - grab your scattered design staff and get them moving right away on this. Use some imagination.
5.9. Revamp the brand new, but not working, design for the Ford 500. Rethink the CVT - it can work, but not the way it does now. DO NOT wait the “normal†grace period for new designs to take hold. That’s 90’s think - and defunct. Otherwise, by the time the next 5 year plan cycle rolls around, Toyota will own GM and Nissan will own you.
5.10. Lincoln needs to be competing with Cadillac, Lexus, and Infiniti - not Saab and, er, Ford. Rethink dropping the Aviator SUV - gas prices may change that market a lot. Instead of building a troublesome all-new Jag SUV, shift the Aviator over for them. Moving a small Jag car design in for the LS was a good idea at the time, but it has rotted on the vine. More promising would be a BIG Jag design as a new Continental - leave the large-format Town Car as is - totally refresh the small Jag Lincoln - and add a new sports car Mark IX based on the Jag XK. Once set up, the same production line (moved to Atlanta?) might even be expanded to include some Jags, with little effort… Add a supertruck to the new LT - drop that blown 5.4 motor in there - don't be shy. Think of the profit margins...
5.11. Mercury would benefit from the ideas I’ve espoused above, with the following new moves: Dump the euro-cougar and add the new Mustang-clone cougar… Advertise the Marauder more, make some strong gears optional, and put some giant tires on her… Give Mercury a pickup truck, with front end styling similar to the Mountaineer - don’t worry that it will compete with the Lincoln LT, the price differential should be substantial, particularly with the blown 5.4 in the LT…
5.12. Jaguar needs the Mays touch. How about this idea: Keep him in London, let him fix the Jag designs, and hire a North Americano who lives in Detroit to design cars for us? Jaguar’s dealer network sucks - work on bringing them up to BMW specs, and steal all the best engineering from Jag for Lincoln’s dealers to capitalize on. Redesign the new XK (looks like an Aston Martin) to be the true child of the XKE that it deserves to be. If closing the one plant in England doesn’t stem the red ink, maybe making some Jags in the USA will…
5.13. Volvo needs to start assembling cars in the US, too. Transform one of the troubled Ford plants (maybe the big Canadian item currently on the kill list) to making Volvos. Stay focused on the station wagon market for Volvo - its coming back…
5.14. Aston Martin - just keep making them.
5.15. Used Fords. Start a highly publicized effort to offer warranties to old Fords. Sure, you already do this in a half-hearted fashion - not good enough. Use this as a tool to insert the “We really care about our customers, now and always†line into the national psyche. Add on a new program to plug parts for Fords of all ages, yes, including ancient items from the 30’s, into the parts pipline going to the Dealers. Make it clear that you want people to continue driving their Fords for a hundred years, and you’re committed to help that happen. This is great PR, reminds everyone of the good times in the past, and helps funnel money to you and your strapped dealers - helping them compete with the aftermarket, which is growing in power every day. Everyone wins.
Not just about the SVT, but its in there. Actually, without a Ford Motor Company, no more Mustangs, period.
Ford Motor Company has fallen on hard times. The fresh new designs aren’t selling - the dependable old SUV’s and F150’s are sitting on the lots, endangered species threatened by looming $4 per gallon gasoline prices - and the competition is offering better looking, better running, more dependable vehicles at lower prices. Insular, “hide your head in the sand and maybe they’ll go away†management has failed to fill the pipeline with the cars and trucks needed to match the new market realities. The massive problems with quality that plagued them in the 70’s and 80’s are thankfully gone, but that just means that buyers are now shopping for style, performance and utility rather than simply how many tiny flaws can be spotted on a new car by J.D. Powers and Associates geeks.
Speaking of the paramount importance of styling, Ford VP Mays, self-anointed “chief creative officer“, has fled the s-storm in Detroit and set up shop in his preferred digs in London, his fresh, newly recognized “center of the creative universeâ€. While the white collar faithful back in the USA have their morale hammered by yet another decimation of their ranks (Ford has just announced plans to axe 20,000 workers, mostly white collared), he and his cronies lounge in the salons of Soho dreaming up ugly new Ford 500’s, Freestyles and diesel-powered Escapes so as to plague their long-suffering dealers. Bill Ford, a Mays admirer, doubtless has given them their marching orders: Design gorgeous bodies for the hybrid vehicles to make them more saleable (which would mean they were selling at all, of course) - design the successor to the Think electric cars (have they shipped all those ill-fated partial-birth abortions back to Euroland yet?) - oh, and be sure to pen some quickie layouts for the glue-on decals for the exciting new SVT Ford 500, SVT Escape (er, Adrenaline), and the SVT Freestyle (no, that‘s been canceled, but a new image for the Edsel-clone and utterly failed vehicle when its reintroduced in 2008 or whenever will doubtless be a high priority).
If Ford wants to save Ford (and how many entendre’s can one find in that simple phrase ?), he might give some thought to the following:
1. Quit blaming the lack of sales and profits on health costs, the unions and retirees. His competition has all the same problems, so a level playing field has already been achieved. Sure, some of the guys build components in countries where the labor is cheap and the UAW doesn’t exist - so does Ford. Just because folks have believed the old bromide that “they can’t make any profits because of the evil unions†in the past doesn’t mean that the same lame excuse will play today. He might even discover that the unions would talk sanely if management ceases to blame them for all the ills of the world… I'll buy this argument the day we see the union designing and engineering cars nobody wants to buy - a function wholy owned by Ford management, not union members.
2. Fix some recent mistakes. Axing middle management engineers creating things like the GT just before you bring it to market was unwise (yes, I’m talking about Colleti here). What should have been a shining corporate icon in a dark product universe has been dulled by bonehead problems with castings that break and $275,000, 200mph sports cars gathering dust in dealer’s maintenance bays waiting on parts. (Of course, why the $140,000 GT’s are being gouged at twice the price by desperate dealers is just another indication of systemic failure). If you can rehire some of the talent you ran off, it might save your hiney.
Depriving the Ford SVT fans of their cherished Lightnings, SVT Foci and Cobras just so you could win some low level corporate coup was misplaced schoolyard ego at best.
3. Regain control over the design process. The picture of an American corporate icon like Ford lacking a design center and being totally dependent on the whims of a flake squatting in a flat in London is not a pretty one. Disconnecting from the American buying public and plugging into the non-car-driving, artsy set in urban England is no way to fix the problem. Many of the new designs don’t appeal and don’t sell. You’ve got a serious mismatch between your designers and your market. You need the American shopper - and they don’t live in Soho. This is a key problem. Fix it or die.
4. Finances. If you want to stop whimpering about money, and really want to make a change that can help everybody, pick up Neal Boortz’s new book about a national retail sales tax to replace the income tax. Want to streamline white collar labor costs and free up capital to invest in your company? Imagine the savings when you don’t need tax lawyers, accountants and the IT and clerical support staff that goes with them! Between the direct costs of complying with federal corporate income tax rules, and accounting for all your employee’s income tax withholding needs, the savings would be huge. Add the sudden lack of that overhead to price competition with foreign auto manufacturers, and suddenly it will be THEM squealing about unfair price advantage!
5. Dust off all those market segment studies and plan cars that match the segments. Wake up - forget the fantasy that you create markets, and realize that you need to respond to the real markets with real solutions.
5.1. Toyota’s Scion line is an excellent example. Do that, and do 2 versions - one for Mercury, too.
5.2. Give poor old Mercury some help - you simply can’t afford (unlike GM, who seems to think nothing of killing off entire car marques) to let Mercury die. Bring back the Cougar - use the power of the new Mustang (your sole success story this year, lack of Mustang GT supply and the disollution of SVT notwithstanding) to build up Mercury dealers. Get a young, meat-eating American designer to pen the simple changes (keep her close to the Mustang, keep the design changes simple but potent). Maybe make the lines just a touch more European… Make the BMW boys sweat.
5.3. Add back the Mustang niche models you axed - the new Shelby is great, but add a Mach 1 (the new body lines were meant for this) and an IRS option for the Shelby, if not a complete new Cobra (use the 4.6 with a blower and IRS - finely tuned suspension - leave the Shelby for the cruizers and drag racers, make the Cobra the road racer).
5.4. Revive the Lightning. Put the same 5.4 in as the new Shelby.
5.5. Bring out the Adrenaline, too, but don’t plan on selling as many of these as you do of the Lightning. Its still a butt-ugly overall design.
5.6. Revive the SVT Focus. Get some AWD action in this lineup to compete with the Subarus. Add a turbo.
5.7. Kill the Freestyle ASAP. Money pit, and that’s it. No need to resurrect the corpse - let it die.
5.8. Put some effort into a new Ranger pickup - grab your scattered design staff and get them moving right away on this. Use some imagination.
5.9. Revamp the brand new, but not working, design for the Ford 500. Rethink the CVT - it can work, but not the way it does now. DO NOT wait the “normal†grace period for new designs to take hold. That’s 90’s think - and defunct. Otherwise, by the time the next 5 year plan cycle rolls around, Toyota will own GM and Nissan will own you.
5.10. Lincoln needs to be competing with Cadillac, Lexus, and Infiniti - not Saab and, er, Ford. Rethink dropping the Aviator SUV - gas prices may change that market a lot. Instead of building a troublesome all-new Jag SUV, shift the Aviator over for them. Moving a small Jag car design in for the LS was a good idea at the time, but it has rotted on the vine. More promising would be a BIG Jag design as a new Continental - leave the large-format Town Car as is - totally refresh the small Jag Lincoln - and add a new sports car Mark IX based on the Jag XK. Once set up, the same production line (moved to Atlanta?) might even be expanded to include some Jags, with little effort… Add a supertruck to the new LT - drop that blown 5.4 motor in there - don't be shy. Think of the profit margins...
5.11. Mercury would benefit from the ideas I’ve espoused above, with the following new moves: Dump the euro-cougar and add the new Mustang-clone cougar… Advertise the Marauder more, make some strong gears optional, and put some giant tires on her… Give Mercury a pickup truck, with front end styling similar to the Mountaineer - don’t worry that it will compete with the Lincoln LT, the price differential should be substantial, particularly with the blown 5.4 in the LT…
5.12. Jaguar needs the Mays touch. How about this idea: Keep him in London, let him fix the Jag designs, and hire a North Americano who lives in Detroit to design cars for us? Jaguar’s dealer network sucks - work on bringing them up to BMW specs, and steal all the best engineering from Jag for Lincoln’s dealers to capitalize on. Redesign the new XK (looks like an Aston Martin) to be the true child of the XKE that it deserves to be. If closing the one plant in England doesn’t stem the red ink, maybe making some Jags in the USA will…
5.13. Volvo needs to start assembling cars in the US, too. Transform one of the troubled Ford plants (maybe the big Canadian item currently on the kill list) to making Volvos. Stay focused on the station wagon market for Volvo - its coming back…
5.14. Aston Martin - just keep making them.
5.15. Used Fords. Start a highly publicized effort to offer warranties to old Fords. Sure, you already do this in a half-hearted fashion - not good enough. Use this as a tool to insert the “We really care about our customers, now and always†line into the national psyche. Add on a new program to plug parts for Fords of all ages, yes, including ancient items from the 30’s, into the parts pipline going to the Dealers. Make it clear that you want people to continue driving their Fords for a hundred years, and you’re committed to help that happen. This is great PR, reminds everyone of the good times in the past, and helps funnel money to you and your strapped dealers - helping them compete with the aftermarket, which is growing in power every day. Everyone wins.
Not just about the SVT, but its in there. Actually, without a Ford Motor Company, no more Mustangs, period.
11/14/05, 03:14 AM
#26
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Originally posted by Knight@November 13, 2005, 11:36 AM
Forget the fact our interiors plastics feel like bricks.
Forget the fact our interiors plastics feel like bricks.
11/14/05, 03:24 AM
#27
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Originally posted by Galaxie+November 13, 2005, 1:13 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Galaxie @ November 13, 2005, 1:13 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>GM is in a deep hole right now... its hard to say if they will be able to turn things around. All Ford, as bad as they are doing, will beat GM to market with their newest generation of crossovers. The Fusion is a great looking midsize entry already on the market taking potential sales from GM.
[/b]
[/b]
Well, the Fusion is a reasonable contender, to be sure, but I have to say, you don't win by building products that are "almost as good," or "a worthy competitor" - not in this marketplace. And Ford doesn't need to worry about competing with GM right now. That's like worrying about an uncomfortable hangnail while your house is burning down around you. The real problem here is the Japanese, and while the Fusion is a good start, it doesn't go far enough. It needs to SET benchmarks, not be "within reach of them." I had a close look at a Fusion the other day, and it felt cheap to me, especially when I pulled on the door handles. Didn't have the solid feel of an import - or even an F-150 for that matter - and I tried two cars.
<!--QuoteBegin-Galaxie@November 13, 2005, 1:13 PM
I really don't think GM (and Ford) will be able to compete with the Japanese for the next few years, the crossroad for both companies is when the UAW contract expires. Unless the UAW is willing to give concessions, they are in big trouble.
The same goes for the management structure, they really need to do a house cleaning in there and get rid of managers managing mangers managing managers.
[/quote]
No truer words were spoken.
11/14/05, 03:32 AM
#28
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Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@November 13, 2005, 2:51 PM
Anyway, I think GMC has too many issues for anyone to buy them out. Its a big chunk of rotten meat to chew. To complete buy them out would be basically dooming any company.
If a foreign company were to buy them out the UAW would tear everything apart. In that sense I think you would have not one but two companies on the verge of bankruptcy then, not that I would really care if a foreign manufacturer went bankrupt
Again while Ford continues to innovate and move along and adapt, (which I still think will change things in the automotive industry in the next few years, but thats a whole aother topic)
GM continues to do what Knight said basically. Pump out more and more random product hoping it will be a hit.
They have no accolades like Ford does in safety, innovation, or anything regarding their products (sans Corvette).
Anyway, I think GMC has too many issues for anyone to buy them out. Its a big chunk of rotten meat to chew. To complete buy them out would be basically dooming any company.
If a foreign company were to buy them out the UAW would tear everything apart. In that sense I think you would have not one but two companies on the verge of bankruptcy then, not that I would really care if a foreign manufacturer went bankrupt
Again while Ford continues to innovate and move along and adapt, (which I still think will change things in the automotive industry in the next few years, but thats a whole aother topic)
GM continues to do what Knight said basically. Pump out more and more random product hoping it will be a hit.
They have no accolades like Ford does in safety, innovation, or anything regarding their products (sans Corvette).
Whether a foreign company buys out GM is hard to say. But I think a buyout of certain components in the GM line is likely. (And don't expect a government bailout. I'll go on record right now and predict that that won't happen.)
Not ALL GM cars are bad. The Corvette is a winner. The new Caddys are improving dramatically (far better than anything Lincoln currently has on the table). Two new Saturn products - Sky and Aura - look tremendous, though should become Chevys, in my opinion, after folding up Saturn. GM needs to consolidate dramatically, get rid of Buick and Pontiac, and focus on making just Chevy (for the middle & working classes) as Honda/Toyota competitors, and Cadillac (as the Lexus, Bimmer competitor). And for god's sake no more GMC Yukons and Chevy Tahoes. I still don't know the difference between the two because there IS no difference! Geez, two redundant, duplicated versions of the same oversized gas pig! How can you tell GM needs a corporate enema, huh?
11/14/05, 09:55 AM
#29
Shelby GT500 Member
Originally posted by BC_Shelby@November 14, 2005, 4:15 AM
5.7. Kill the Freestyle ASAP. Money pit, and that’s it. No need to resurrect the corpse - let it die.
5.7. Kill the Freestyle ASAP. Money pit, and that’s it. No need to resurrect the corpse - let it die.
I know its off topic, but do tell...what is wrong with it?
11/14/05, 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by BC_Shelby@November 14, 2005, 6:27 AM
Well, the Fusion is a reasonable contender, to be sure, but I have to say, you don't win by building products that are "almost as good," or "a worthy competitor" - not in this marketplace. And Ford doesn't need to worry about competing with GM right now. That's like worrying about an uncomfortable hangnail while your house is burning down around you. The real problem here is the Japanese, and while the Fusion is a good start, it doesn't go far enough. It needs to SET benchmarks, not be "within reach of them." I had a close look at a Fusion the other day, and it felt cheap to me, especially when I pulled on the door handles. Didn't have the solid feel of an import - or even an F-150 for that matter - and I tried two cars.
No truer words were spoken.
Well, the Fusion is a reasonable contender, to be sure, but I have to say, you don't win by building products that are "almost as good," or "a worthy competitor" - not in this marketplace. And Ford doesn't need to worry about competing with GM right now. That's like worrying about an uncomfortable hangnail while your house is burning down around you. The real problem here is the Japanese, and while the Fusion is a good start, it doesn't go far enough. It needs to SET benchmarks, not be "within reach of them." I had a close look at a Fusion the other day, and it felt cheap to me, especially when I pulled on the door handles. Didn't have the solid feel of an import - or even an F-150 for that matter - and I tried two cars.
No truer words were spoken.
Anyway, I should restate what I said. It did sound like I was saying all of GM's products are junk, which they are not. They really need to focus on limiting their redundancy like you said. Basically what GM is doing is unknowingly competing with themselves instead of other companies.
Oh by the way Mark posted a good article, Ford car sales are up 10.7% since last year. Some good news for us Ford fans alike
11/14/05, 10:51 AM
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About that article above on turning ford around... I dunno, some good points, but some of it just makes me laugh a bit. Anybody who lists reviving the lightning and dropping a blown 5.4 into a lincoln truck as ways to save ford? They might be good cars for guys on online forums who like to brag to fans of other companies, but they really don't do much for saving companies. Other ideas had some more merit though:
-the scion thing, ford should get into that low end segment
-the used car thing
-the idea of reacting to new markets rather than trying to make new markets
I also think the freestyle could be saved with some tweaks, like a motor that's a little less anemic, like the one that they just revealed! For those old explorer owners looking for a new car that's a little easier on gas, the freestyle really offers something in the Ford lineup.
-the scion thing, ford should get into that low end segment
-the used car thing
-the idea of reacting to new markets rather than trying to make new markets
I also think the freestyle could be saved with some tweaks, like a motor that's a little less anemic, like the one that they just revealed! For those old explorer owners looking for a new car that's a little easier on gas, the freestyle really offers something in the Ford lineup.
11/14/05, 11:24 AM
#33
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Originally posted by mustang_sallad@November 14, 2005, 1:54 PM
About that article above on turning ford around... I dunno, some good points, but some of it just makes me laugh a bit. Anybody who lists reviving the lightning and dropping a blown 5.4 into a lincoln truck as ways to save ford? They might be good cars for guys on online forums who like to brag to fans of other companies, but they really don't do much for saving companies. Other ideas had some more merit though:
-the scion thing, ford should get into that low end segment
-the used car thing
-the idea of reacting to new markets rather than trying to make new markets
I also think the freestyle could be saved with some tweaks, like a motor that's a little less anemic, like the one that they just revealed! For those old explorer owners looking for a new car that's a little easier on gas, the freestyle really offers something in the Ford lineup.
About that article above on turning ford around... I dunno, some good points, but some of it just makes me laugh a bit. Anybody who lists reviving the lightning and dropping a blown 5.4 into a lincoln truck as ways to save ford? They might be good cars for guys on online forums who like to brag to fans of other companies, but they really don't do much for saving companies. Other ideas had some more merit though:
-the scion thing, ford should get into that low end segment
-the used car thing
-the idea of reacting to new markets rather than trying to make new markets
I also think the freestyle could be saved with some tweaks, like a motor that's a little less anemic, like the one that they just revealed! For those old explorer owners looking for a new car that's a little easier on gas, the freestyle really offers something in the Ford lineup.
11/14/05, 11:43 AM
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Ford really needs some small cars now, they have the full size (500), midsize (Fusion) , and coupe (Mustang) segments covered. So how about bringing over the Ford Ka and Fiesta
to replace the Focus? They have these cars on sale in the South American Market, which is not too far from Mexico, where the Fusion is built, so it seems it wouldn't be too difficult to build them in Mexico for the US market...
to replace the Focus? They have these cars on sale in the South American Market, which is not too far from Mexico, where the Fusion is built, so it seems it wouldn't be too difficult to build them in Mexico for the US market...
11/14/05, 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Vermillion98@November 14, 2005, 2:46 PM
Ford really needs some small cars now, they have the full size (500), midsize (Fusion) , and coupe (Mustang) segments covered. So how about bringing over the Ford Ka and Fiesta
to replace the Focus? They have these cars on sale in the South American Market, which is not too far from Mexico, where the Fusion is built, so it seems it wouldn't be too difficult to build them in Mexico for the US market...
Ford really needs some small cars now, they have the full size (500), midsize (Fusion) , and coupe (Mustang) segments covered. So how about bringing over the Ford Ka and Fiesta
to replace the Focus? They have these cars on sale in the South American Market, which is not too far from Mexico, where the Fusion is built, so it seems it wouldn't be too difficult to build them in Mexico for the US market...
11/14/05, 05:40 PM
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ooof... ya, that cat add was way too graphic for me... they just made it wayyyy too realistic.
The fiesta and ka, one and two sizes smaller than the focus, respecitively, so I doubt the focus would get replaced by them, though ford is considering bringing something like the fiesta across the ocean. They really should as other car makers are getting back into that segment, like toyota with the yaris, chevy/pontiac/suzuki with the aveo/wave/swift, and honda's upcoming Jazz or Fit or whatever they're gonna end up calling it here. The fiesta's pretty good looking, though the ka is pretty ugly.
If ford had the fiesta over here, than maybe they could move the focus upscale a little bit, justifying the switch over to the sweet european focus.
here's that thread talking about tiny cars:
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=38540
The fiesta and ka, one and two sizes smaller than the focus, respecitively, so I doubt the focus would get replaced by them, though ford is considering bringing something like the fiesta across the ocean. They really should as other car makers are getting back into that segment, like toyota with the yaris, chevy/pontiac/suzuki with the aveo/wave/swift, and honda's upcoming Jazz or Fit or whatever they're gonna end up calling it here. The fiesta's pretty good looking, though the ka is pretty ugly.
If ford had the fiesta over here, than maybe they could move the focus upscale a little bit, justifying the switch over to the sweet european focus.
here's that thread talking about tiny cars:
http://forums.bradbarnett.net/index.php?showtopic=38540
11/14/05, 06:44 PM
#37
I seriously doubt any Asian company will buy GM while it is under the shackles of the UAW.
Just as an example in the difference in corporate culture. At Honda, if the line goes down for a prolonged period, when the line goes back up, the speed of the line is cranked up and people from the office come to help out so that the plant can catch up. There is no way that would happen in a Union factory. Their reps measure the line speed on a regular basis and don't even think about trying to do another person's job. They will file a greivance before you can blink. The only way an Asian company would buy up pieces of GM is if the UAW was out of the picture.
Another beef of mine is a Janitor at the big 3 makes more than a regular engineer. That my friends is ridiculous.
Just as an example in the difference in corporate culture. At Honda, if the line goes down for a prolonged period, when the line goes back up, the speed of the line is cranked up and people from the office come to help out so that the plant can catch up. There is no way that would happen in a Union factory. Their reps measure the line speed on a regular basis and don't even think about trying to do another person's job. They will file a greivance before you can blink. The only way an Asian company would buy up pieces of GM is if the UAW was out of the picture.
Another beef of mine is a Janitor at the big 3 makes more than a regular engineer. That my friends is ridiculous.
11/14/05, 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by Vermillion98@November 14, 2005, 12:46 PM
Ford really needs some small cars now, they have the full size (500), midsize (Fusion) , and coupe (Mustang) segments covered. So how about bringing over the Ford Ka and Fiesta
to replace the Focus? They have these cars on sale in the South American Market, which is not too far from Mexico, where the Fusion is built, so it seems it wouldn't be too difficult to build them in Mexico for the US market...
Ford really needs some small cars now, they have the full size (500), midsize (Fusion) , and coupe (Mustang) segments covered. So how about bringing over the Ford Ka and Fiesta
to replace the Focus? They have these cars on sale in the South American Market, which is not too far from Mexico, where the Fusion is built, so it seems it wouldn't be too difficult to build them in Mexico for the US market...
11/14/05, 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Galaxie@November 14, 2005, 6:47 PM
I seriously doubt any Asian company will buy GM while it is under the shackles of the UAW.
Just as an example in the difference in corporate culture. At Honda, if the line goes down for a prolonged period, when the line goes back up, the speed of the line is cranked up and people from the office come to help out so that the plant can catch up. There is no way that would happen in a Union factory. Their reps measure the line speed on a regular basis and don't even think about trying to do another person's job. They will file a greivance before you can blink. The only way an Asian company would buy up pieces of GM is if the UAW was out of the picture.
Another beef of mine is a Janitor at the big 3 makes more than a regular engineer. That my friends is ridiculous.
I seriously doubt any Asian company will buy GM while it is under the shackles of the UAW.
Just as an example in the difference in corporate culture. At Honda, if the line goes down for a prolonged period, when the line goes back up, the speed of the line is cranked up and people from the office come to help out so that the plant can catch up. There is no way that would happen in a Union factory. Their reps measure the line speed on a regular basis and don't even think about trying to do another person's job. They will file a greivance before you can blink. The only way an Asian company would buy up pieces of GM is if the UAW was out of the picture.
Another beef of mine is a Janitor at the big 3 makes more than a regular engineer. That my friends is ridiculous.
The UAW stifles pride, and disenfranchises its members from working for the collective good of the organization.
On another note, I also believe that Ford needs to introduce more excitement into the lineup. Some of its Euro models are pretty cool. No more half-meaures; take some chances and build cars that engender excitement and lure people away from the Japanese. It's working with both the Mustang and the Chrysler 300.
Ford should build the gall darn Iosis and bring it over here! It would be a runaway best seller, I guarantee!
11/14/05, 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by 1999 Black 35th GT@November 14, 2005, 10:26 AM
Not to go on that topic again but at the Ride and Drive we had, there was a Camry and an Altima there and I must tell you the quality of the imports was not what people say it is. The shifter for the Camry wobbled around in the gate very loosely and the E-brake handle made a racket. Not to mention their was a lot of deflection in the doors due to poor reinforcement. As for the Nissan it was really bad, the doors were tinny and the interior pieces for the radio were already coming loose. But thats just what I think. I'll just leave it at my opinion.
Not to go on that topic again but at the Ride and Drive we had, there was a Camry and an Altima there and I must tell you the quality of the imports was not what people say it is. The shifter for the Camry wobbled around in the gate very loosely and the E-brake handle made a racket. Not to mention their was a lot of deflection in the doors due to poor reinforcement. As for the Nissan it was really bad, the doors were tinny and the interior pieces for the radio were already coming loose. But thats just what I think. I'll just leave it at my opinion.
Again, we should be aspiring to do better - not "just as good." Though greatly improved, Mustangs still feel thin and light. Tap on it, the sound is not reassuring.
And our technology and methodology by which we build cars is way behind. No Lincoln out there is as advanced or as well built as even the entry-level Lexus; we just don't seem able (or willing) to do it. Yet the two compete in the same "luxury" segment.