exactly driver interaction....i'm not talking about being able to select the gear. but using your whole body to do it.

 

Id have to drive one before id make a decision one way or the other.

IMO manual drivers as a whole pay much more attention to the road then do people with autos. It takes much more thought into driving in traffic with a stick then it does with a Auto. I almost NEVER talk on my cell phone and drive even though I have a wireless ear piece.

 

also does the SMG have the ability to skip gears.

A lot of time with my stang i'd gun it up to 3rd to get on the highway and shift from 3rd to 5th.

 

Yep, that's the only point in favor of the manual, in my opinion.
A sequential like a SMG or DSG cannot skip gears.
Though at a speed of 8 milliseconds (DSG) or 100/150 milliseconds (SMG), going up or down two gears would still take less time than a regular driver doing that with a manual...

 

i have no exact explanation. But this is waht i can say. DSG, or SMG just doesnt FEEL like i have control of the trans. there is still a computer or something between me and the cogs. The feeling of the gears slipping together. the feel of the left leg slipping the clutch, the way i can almost feel the little cuts in the wear surface of the clutch disc in my leg. Thats why no matter how much faster, or more efficiently the dsg can shift my car. no matter what awesome abilities it has over my slower shifts or whatever. i cant give up the third pedal.


and besides my left leg needs something to do.

 

We don't like ti because it's not old school. At least, that's why I don't like it.

 

while this is true, some of us just like the clutch. its fun, at least i kno for me it is, and its alot more interactivce than just tapping a lever, or paddle. and i do like the whole launching at any RPM thing

[[agh, im such a hippocrit , i just switched my car to an auto lol, oh well...]]

 

I drive a car with manual tranny in Europe.
I only hope Mustang will offer such a high tech transmission in future,I am not a fan of it but it makes cars terribly fast,look at BMW cars especially at M6,it's so fast because of the transmission! One of our forum members lost to a BMW 6 4.4 only because the BMW had that high tech transmission.nough said.My personal dream is to have a GT500 with this kind of tranny

 

no i can't, if i gas it in S-0 before you go into M-1 the car moves like in first gear. it has no real manual neutral. only one on the auto side.

 

I'd like to disagree on the "removal of direct interface between the driver and the vehicle" when referring to DSG/SMG: by eliminating the clutch pedal but offering the same exact characteristics of a manual (not to mention these high tech trannies are built the same way a manual is.) and on top of that having the added bonus of perfectly blipping the throttle to match revs when downshifting, they actually increase interface for the driver because they allow you to better concentrate on other tasks (whatever those may be. For instance an example could be the search for the better apex in a curve...).

If I may make a bit of an analogy, a car with a manual gearbox is like a rifle that has a bolt action: to pull the trigger one more time (=engaging the next gear you need), you need to operate the bolt (=operating the clutch pedal and the gear lever). A DSG/SMG is like a semiauto rifle: after you squeezed the trigger, it reloads itself and the next shot you need to take is just a moment away (=just moving the lever, no clutch pedal action) and it allows you to keep your sight/scope already on the target (=what the car is doing and what you need to do to optimize its performance in a given road, curve, etc. etc.), no distractions (even if minimal, because an experience manual driver of course doesn't really have to think when changing gears, it becomes second nature. But still it's anyway more than not having a clutch pedal...).
I know it's a cheesy analogy, but please cut me some slack.

 

But wouldn't you be more interacting with your vehicle and be more involved with the task at hand (=in a sport/sporty situation, be as fast as you can on a given road, curve, etc. etc.) if you didn't have to "waste" your time operating a pedal but instead only having to move a lever or press a paddle shifter on your steering wheel ?

 

Thanks for the feedback guys...

I respect the opinion of all of you and of course if you like more a manual because it's more old school or you are just used to it, that's of course cool.
I guess personally I am more in favor of latest technologies and whatever can give me a bit more performance. To each his own.

By the way, I found a fairly interesting video (about 1 min) on youtube.
The interesting part is in the second half of this video, the last 30 seconds.
It's called BMW M5 Experience and it basically shows in-car footage of some lucky dude that plays around with its new M5 (500 hp, 5.0L V10) and I think it shows quite well the blindingly fast performance of the latest SMG iteration from BMW.
Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7d0IgpiYgQ

 

It seems that both DSG and SMG offer launch capability with some revs (it seems like 2.5/3.0 k rpms), but I don't think you can select whatever revs you like. I believe this is due to the fact that DSG and SMG select the best revs for the vehicle you have for a launch.

Here some videos (first two are videos of DSG in a VW GTI, the third is the M3 Launch Control Tutorial) showing launching at those rpms I indicated above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EdjEE0edPw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boVK0O3zqGc

 

thats impressive that you can rev like that before takeoff, in neutral, let go of lever when reving, but the car is choosing your revs when you let go, (and you cant pop the clutch, what if your battery dies)
If it happens I hope it is a chioce and not a replacement for my 5 speed manaul type tranny.

 

DSG and SMG transmissions only offer the illusion of a proper manual, they are still fully automatic (as in they will override any stupid or dangerous shift). I had 2 cars with SMG and drove a couple others more, and I stick to my opinion. Btw, in "manual" mode the shift times were considerably slower than in automatic mode, because the computer first has to analyse if all the parameters are optimal for the desired shift. Another weak point of the DSG/SMG trannies is that it's impossible to downshift from, e.g. 4th directly to 2nd. Upshifting like that is, of course, also impossible.
The main reason I chose an automatic in the Mustang was practicality. It's my daily driver and morning/evening traffic is crazy on my way to work. Traffic lights, traffic jams, road works... I was driving my previous car (SMG) in full auto mode every day because of it.
Another reason why I went for the auto was that this is an American car, and US-made automatic transmissions are always better than the manuals in terms of durability. I'm only talking about a street-driven car, of course that for racing of any kind, manual 'boxes are recommended and the reason why they break down at the track has more to do with other factors.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but it is sadly the truth. As some guy named Jeremy C. once said, "American manual 'boxes are from tractors, while the European automatics are made from twigs and spit. It's a matter of tradition".

In conclusion, I'm a huge fan of the manuals but in the real world they're hard to live with. Automatics bring the much-needed comfort (who needs a sore leg by the time they get to work?) but steal most of the fun. In my ideal world, I'd have 2 of the same car: a manual for the track and an auto for the daily driving. And I'll never again buy a DSG/SMG.

 

I drive a manual currently and ordered my '07 with a manual. It's mostly because I've never driven an automatic GT with a tune, so I don't know what you all are talking about when you say the tunes make them shift so much better. The standard auto felt sloppy and delayed too much when I put my foot down. I also like to take my car to the mountains when I can and regular autos aren't as much fun.

SMGs and DSGs are only comparable from the standpoint that they are both semi-automatic gearboxes. They get there in different ways and most who have driven both agree the DSG is superior. BMW thinks so, as well, as it is dumping the SMG in favor of a DSG-style box. The SMG is an electrohydraulically-shifted manual tranny. The DSG uses a twin clutch setup that preselects the next gear for you and has it waiting when you are ready to shift. If you are accelerating, it selects the next gear up; decelerating, the next one down. Because of this, it will shift faster, whether in full-auto or semi-auto (manual) mode, than the SMG or even than one can shift a manual tranny. Don't take my word for it, just drive any of the DSG-equipped VWs (GTI, Jetta GLI, or Jetta TDi) or Audis (A3 S-Line or TT 3.2). And, yes, it will force a shift if you try to hold a gear too long or bog the engine too much . . . I'm not sure protecting you from doing something stupid is a bad thing.

That said, there is not yet a DSG in production that would stand up to the abuse a V8 Mustang (or most any other V8, for that matter) is capable of delivering. Audi can't even put one in the S4, which puts out 340hp and 302ft/lbs. If Ford ever did offer a DSG-style gearbox (not holding my breath), though, I'd sign up for one in a second.

 

The Bugatti Veyron should have a DSG transmission that would be more than up to the task of standing up to a Mustang V8. Does that count?

Legion681, Don't mind your disagreement. I just think the DSG computer essentially does the "work" - which isn't a bad thing if it prevents a blown up engine/transmission and allows the driver to concentrate more on the road. I honestly wouldn't mind one in whatever vehicle I'd buy in the future, but would prefer the technology to evolve a bit more.

 

Ha! That one counts. I stand corrected.

 

there are those who still prefer bolt action rifles am i not correct in saying most precision shooters and snipers still use bolt action rifles? while the action is slower, a bolt action rifle is significantly simpler than a semi auto rifle, just as a standard manual tranny is simpler than a DSG or SMG.

not trying to hate or anything, just saying, some of us will always prefer the third pedal.

though... it would be interesting to see a DSG where u dont just tap the stick forward or backward (or side to side) to shift. what if there were a DSG that had a regular shift pattern?

1 ___3___ 5
|____|___|___
|___ |___ |__ |
2 ___4___6__ R

like that?

that way, we could still select whatever gear we want, be able to stick it in neutral and still not have to press the clutch. we'd be able to have the control over wat RPM to launch at and such as well. of course it would lose that "auto" function for when you get lazy, but what the heck.

a non auto DSG would be better than what we have now. it would REALLY finally be a stickshift without the cluitch. the beauty of it is you could actually have it be a computer shift controled manual gearbox, instead of a computer controlled auto tranny that allows u to shift gears.

now THAT would be the best of both worlds, imo

(tho... i still think the clutch pedal is rather fun )

 

Porsche had this back in the early '70's . . . it was called the Sportomatic. My dad had one in his '72 911S. I nearly killed us when I grabbed the shiftknob while he was merging into traffic. He soon had a 5-spd swapped into it.