First of all, I'd like to say that I have driven manuals for 20 years (in Europe. Over there basically everybody has cars with manuals...even though it's changing a bit these days) and now I switched to an auto and I see in my future a vehicle with some semiautomatic tranny, say a DSG or SMG...

Now, I just came across a discussion on another website about the upcoming Mitsubishi Evo X sporting a dual clutch semi auto transmission, basically something very similar, if not identical, to VW's DSG and saw tons of posts complaining about it, asking for a 6 speed manual for various reasons.

Now my question to you, super fanatics of the manual gearbox, is this:
why are you so attached, almost for dear life, to the manual tranny instead of the latest tech like DSG and SMG ?

I mean, with a DSG you can have:
- the same level of control that you have with a manual.
- it's not an auto, it doesn't have a torque converter. Basically its layout is the same as a manual, but you don't have a clutch pedal. To change gears, either you move the lever or, if so equipped, you can use the paddle shifters.
- it's blindingly fast: it changes gears in 8 MILLISECONDS (I believe the best driver/racing driver out there could probably change a gear in some 150 milliseconds, I reckon.).
- it perfectly matches the revs when downshifting, again better than any driver operating a manual.
- if needed, you can as well have DSG operate in full auto mode.

So, please help me understand why many people are so much attached to that third pedal when with a DSG you can do everything you can do with a manual, but always better and in the utmost perfect way...
I mean, I have extensive experience with both manual and auto and of course there is a clear difference between the two, but when it comes to DSG (or SMG), I personally cannot see any advantage of the manual over it...

Thanks for the feedback !

 

It is not the same level of control when you are slowing down traveling too fast for first gear and try to go from second to first and it automatically keeps you in second gear until you are slower, or when you just happen to be going fast enough for it to slip into first gear and jerks you when if you had a shift and a clutch you would have done it smooth yourself from second to first.

 

also the one I hate the most! if you are on the highway and floor it in 4th gear it automatically down shifts you to 3rd. If you don't know that you actually just went down to third and are about to need to go back up to fourth you can redline your car very easy , with a real manual you could have passed in 4th , or downshifted into 3rd only if you wanted to.

 

Because the others do not have 3 pedals on the floor! I can't begin to tell you the nice cars I have passed on just because they were auto's....I have tried to live with an auto, I end up selling them real quick due to my love with a purely manual trans car. I own 3 cars, all of them incl my DD are 5 speeds. No substitute for 3 pedals and a manual stick on the floor for me....ever

 

For me personally, I love the thrill of it; it's just more fun. Driving a manual makes driving a more involved process that actually takes skill, rather than hitting a paddle (face it, none of us go fast enough to need a padddle shifter, and if you do, not on the street.) Also, if I am going to spend a large sum of money on a performance car that I want to have fun in it, I want it my way.

 

I do believe these new generation of DSG-type trannies ARE the next big thing, and this coming from a dyed-in-the-wool stick wriggler. In fully manual modes, they can offer at least as good a level of driver control as a conventional manual, but coupled with their near-zero shift times and perfect rev matching. In auto modes, they are basically as good as a traditional slush box in terms of smoothness, but are lighter, simpler and much more efficient.

I think too many people conflate the weaknesses of traditional auto trannies with the DSG style trannies, which I think 2005GTDELUXES criticisms tend to do.

Sure, there's great satisfaction to be had in being able to execute perfectly executed, heel-and-toe, doubled clutched shifts from fourth to second approaching a tight uphill turn. But that's true of any archaic but challenging skill and, truth be told, a good DSG will do it much better and allow much more concentration on the road than splitting up one's finite mental capacity across multiple, difficult tasks.

In the end, I think DSG-trannies are simply superior overall compared to either current MTXs or ATXs and will eventually supplant both, especially as the DSG technologies, still quite new, continue to mature and improve. Whereas current MTX and ATX technologies are quite matured and probably have little room to improve over what they are now, DSGs are at the beginning of their technological life and one can only imagine the possible improvements. Perhaps shifts speeds/smoothness tied in to how quickly one moves the paddle, i.e., slow, smooth shifts for slow paddle movements up to instant, sharp shifts when you really slap them?

 

As Rhumb indicated, a lot of the weaknesses you attribute to the modern crop of cluthless manuals, and the DSG in particular, have been remedied. We are very quickly reaching the point that the only difference, relative to the driver, between the traditional manual and one of these, when in manual mode of course, is that the standard manual has a clutch pedal. The level of controlability you speak of is basically here with the new Audi/VW DSG...and what little remains will certainly be here shortly.

The traditional manual tranny will no doubt give way to these eventually (and maybe sooner than some might expect) However, I expect the traditional automatic to hold out a bit longer than the manula does.

 

I will deal with and evaluate that situation if/when it arrives. In the here and now with a mustang GT there were 2 options, I chose manual for the control.

 

driver interaction! you can't get that with a semi manual!

 

Actually, I totally agree with you...I can't see how a manual could have any edge over a DSG...

About the last part of your post, the part I underlined, BMW's SMG already has a solution to your question: SMG has a totall of 11 modes you can choose, 5 in auto mode and 6 in sequential/semi-auto mode. The more you go up, let's say for example selecting mode 5 in auto mode or mode 6 in semiauto, the sharper, quicker and crisper the gear change is.
For example mode 1 is perfect for quiet commuting around, while mode 5 (auto) and mode 6 (sequential) is perfect for racing...

 

To the best of my information, DSG when used in manual mode stays in the gear you are in, unless you tell it to change gear by moving the gear lever or pressing the paddle shifters...

 

Yes you can.
The only difference is that you don't have to operate the clutch yourself...
But you can do exactly as you please, same as with a manual...

 

Can you rev up the motor and launch at any rpm you like?

 

My wifes car is a nissan maxima and it has the auto-stick feature. But i almost never use the manual mode. When it's in manual mode, you bump the stick forward to upshift and bump it backward to downshift. The upshifts aren't instanteous as it is with a true manual transmission. When it's in manual mode, it auto downshifts for you, if you don't do it first, which is really annoying. You don't always feel it when it auto downshifts, so as mentioned above, you end up in too low of a gear from one too many downshifts. You often have to look at the dash display to see for sure what gear you are in, there is no way to know based on shifter position as it would be with a true manual trans.

 

The Nissan Maxima, like most "manumatics," are basically just regular torque converter / planetary gear automatics with more conveniently located manual controls. Even old school ATXs could be manually shifted, though it was awkward and slow to do so.

I wouldn't equate these at all with how a DSG type tranny functions or feels, very different underlying gear boxes actually.

 

Not a MT "fanatic", but some disadvantages to a DSG/F1/SMG transmission is the addition of another layer of complexity or removal of direct interface between the driver and the vehicle. (How many of you like Ford's electronic throttle?) Also, if something should go wrong with the software or hardware controlling the transmission - it would seem to be a pretty expensive proposition to fix, since it pretty much has to go back to the dealer. Of course those points only apply until the technology becomes more widely used/matures. However, this looks to be the path that the automakers will be taking. (IMO, I think a DSG/SMG in a non-performance luxo-barge vehicle would look so wrong even if it can function like an AT, though it would probably save R&D and manufacturing costs versus having to develop two different transmissions...)

 

I prefer the 100% manual trasmission... why? Because I LOVE TO DRIVE..... next question!

 

The only major difference between DSG/SMG and a manual transmission is that you don't have a clutch pedal to operate.
A DSG/SMG does EVERYTHING that a manual does (and this includes keeping a gear as much as you want and changing it any time you want), but on top of that it's much faster (DSG takes 8 M-I-L-L-I-S-E-C-O-N-D-S to change a gear...no human being can be faster than that...) and when downshifting it blips the throttle in the most PERFECT way.
So it does everything that a manual does, but in a better, more precise & efficient way...
So, perhaps you might want to modify your post and answer with something like: I LIKE TO OPERATE A PEDAL.

 

Okay, so when is this going to be on a Mustang?
Until then, I want a manual for the control on the back roads.

 

Ehehehe...we could start campaigning/lobbying you and I...
A Mustang with a DSG would be a total dream...