Pretty serious situation >>

Ford to accelerate Way Forward Plan

 

And what do you think is going to happen?

I love the line “The same analyst also claims Ford has "absolutely the most boring product line" in the industry.” OK . . have they seen Toyota’s lately?

If in 24 months Ford is indeed out of cash, than you can look forward to a merger of some sorts, which I do not want. However, I still have between 18-24 months to watch . . . . And there is a whole lot of product coming down the pipeline in that time.

 

What's with this blind "Toyota is better" belief? I have a 2001 butt-ugly Prius (wife's car). It's poorly designed inside. I take it to the local Toyota place for service - and most of them are arrogarnt little s***s. I can't discover anything that indicates Toyotas are vastly better than Fords. Can't stand any of their cars (maybe the ScionB for haulin' stuff). On the downside, most of the Ford dealers here have way too many SUVs and trucks. Gas here is still only $2.86 a gallon - but that still means $115.00 a month for my '05 Focus. The Prius get 44 in town. Ford needs a hybrid Focus/Fusion/500 or some combination thereof.

 

If you go down the list, just who do you think is going to want to merge with Ford...? I don't see too many contenders, other than PERHAPS <gasp> Honda...though that's very unlikely.

I doubt Toyota would want to, and I don't think it would be good for Ford anyway, given Toyota's size and increasing quality issues.

Nissan/Renault are already looking at GM.

So that's the big Japanese companies out of the equation.

So who does that leave? The Germans? Daimler already has Chrysler.

I don't think BMW - as a private company - would want anything to do with an American automaker.

Who does that leave? Subaru...?

 

Well according to the some great analysts it is indeed Toyota . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060720...e_060720221451

But hey . . . what do they know . . .

 

Between now and then Edge will launch into a booming segment, the replacement 500 will be coming or out, the new Escape will be launching, and the new products that keep gettiing mentioned will be on display. It may get tight, but if Ford can get enough cars out fast enough, and shed overcapacity in trucks, they can make it.

 

That assumes the new vehicles appeal to the public. With the exception of the Edge (which I believe WILL be an enormous hit), I don't see any of the other vehicles being appealing ENOUGH to sway buyers over to Ford.

The 500 will only get a front and rear facelift (probably not enough, IMHO) and I have no idea what the Escape is supposed to look like.

It is no longer good enough for Ford to build vehicles "almost as good as, or as good as the imports," they need to build vehicles that are better...OR...build vehicles which are roughly as good but FAR more viscerally appealing. In this, the eleventh hour, it is THE ONLY WAY TO STAY IN THE GAME. The Mustang is a great example >> a great looking car that stirs passion in its segment, and sales are very, very strong.

What's the good of showing concepts like the IOSIS if you haven't the intention or ability to build it? People just look at that vehicle and think: "Great, another cool concept from Ford that they will never build, while all the public gets is <yawn> that boring looking 500. I think I'll go buy a Toyota."

It's time for Ford to stop making excuses, and bring cars like the Euro Focus ST over here. That car would immediately siphon potential buyers of the Civic Si and Golf GTI. Interesting, isn't it, that Ford is the number one selling brand in the UK?

I could say the same thing for the Mondeo.

This ain't rocket science. Well, I take that back: apparently it is for Ford North America.

 

Ford (USA) needs to get a clue from its overseas operations on how to design and build cars that appeal to buyers. Since, with the exception of the Mustang and Fusion "trio", Ford seems to miss the mark. Maybe not by much, but enough to make a difference. As far as trying to build cars "almost/as good as" import brand xxxxx's - they should've been trying to do better. (See BC Shelby's post) - because that's how the Japanese and even the Korean cars to a smaller extent got to where they are now in the U.S. market and it wasn't done overnight. We can only watch and see if Ford's "Bold Moves" will ensure its survival as an American car company.

 

Just because they announced their Way Forward plan doesn't mean their sales are going to magically go up, once the plan is actually gone into action and over with their fate should be pretty clear.

Ford has the most boring product line? That is without a doubt an import biased remark. Sounds like somebody hasn't spent much time around import cars lately. Toyotas are notoriously boring, and Honda's (besides being boring) are annoying considering how many I come across with loud fart cans put on them. Don't even get me started on Hyundai or Kia.

Now that Toyota is growing and finding their quality mishaps to be mulitplying, maybe people will finaly realize that it isn't just an American problem. It's just the way the business works.

 

The Falcon and Fiesta look promising if they'd ever come to America, but the Falcon puts the 500 in a bad position unless you look at it as the 500 is the sophistication of a sedan, while the Falcon is the brute, muscle/family-car(like the Charger).

I can imagine the Fit, Yaris, and Versa taking off if America would realize how much gas is affecting us, and then they would want American BRANDED cars like that, then the Fiesta would do well.

 

Ford needs to get rid of Ford, time to send junior to the Detroit Lions which his family owns ( the team is as bad as the company ). Ford needs a top notch leader like Fields to take over. After all these years Ford still does not understand that quality and wanted product sells and everything else is just talk. While Ford over the years has been using the PR spin telling the stock holders that things will rebound, Hyundai of South Korea has quietly improved quality and produced wanted product. Hyundai is now called the next Toyota and selling everything they make.
They turned Hyundai around in about five years...one would think Ford could do the same thing. As for a merger the only reason anybody would want Ford is for their factories and to think that Ford tried to buy BMW at one time.

 

Yeah, but they're selling and Toyota and Honda are making profits.

I have Camry in the family, I know how boring and it is. And I drove many Japanese cars, they're boring, but they're selling. Even when Big 3 had huge discounts and rebates, Japs were selling at or similar to MSRP.

Ford and GM may have best truck and SUV lineup in the world, but nobody gives a d@mn about that now that price of gas is $3.30.

Look at Ford's car lineup: we have old Focus, we have boring 500, we have Crown Vicky (other than cops and taxi drivers, is anybody still buying them?), we have promising Fusion, and Mustang which is not that good of seller because of gas prices.
So in Ford's lineup we have 1 car that people like and might sell in huge numbers (Focus).

 

Let's talk about boring cars and why people buy them. Most people view automobiles as appliances used to get from Point A to Point B. When these buyers-the overwhelming majority of car purcasers worldwide fall into this category-make a purchase they choose quality and reliability long before styling and performance.

That's why Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and even Kia are selling so many cars. We've beaten the Ford quality issue to death in these threads and I like to think that Ford is improving but that's not the impression the general buying public has, and that's why Ford and GM are in such trouble. When you factor in the problems they have with pensions and the whole UAW issue (don't get me started on this!) it's no wonder they are where they are today.

Yeah, I'd like to see the European Focus sold here, but it would be a niche market car. Remember the Toyota MR2? Same deal. Toyota quality,great styling, but ultimately too expensive for its miniscule market, and it's no longer with us. Ford simply has to market the Focus sold here more aggresively and get the public to believe that it's as good as the imports. This is a tall order.

Ford can build exciting cars. Witness the Mustangand its variants and the Ford GT. But these cars won't save Ford, just as the world class Corvette won't save GM. The market is too small for these rides to make any difference to overall profits.

Of course you guys know about the Deming quality award. It's ironic that an American took American automotive knowhow to Japan and taught the Japanese to build quality cars. They listened when Detroit would not and the sales figures tell the sad result of their deafness. When will Ford and GM wake up to this? Is it already too late?

I've read on this forum that the Ford guys in Detroit read threads here on TMS. I can't believe that they'd be so myopic to ignore some of the suggestions found here. No, I don't mean the ones about more hp and IRS for the Mustang-they hit a home run with this car but it's a small volume seller and doesn't add significantly to their bottom line-but the ones about quality. In the automotive world today that's the name of the game.

If they do go down-and I fervently hope that they will not-it'll be their own **** fault.

 

I doubt they'll go down. By the time they get to that point, some sort of a merger will take place, or the government will step in with an interest-free bailout package of some kind. The current Bush administration may not care about the American auto industry, but by the time Ford's situation reaches critical mass, chances are the Democrats will be in power (given the way the Middle East, shrinking middle class and deficit are going) and they are far more likely to be friendly to labor. Ford is too important to America's history, culture and economy for everyone to just stand by and let it die an ignominious death.

That being said, the company needs a grand slam in the small car/family/economy class, and the Fusion - though a definite improvement - simply isn't good enough to sway import buyers over to the Ford camp.

I've said it before and I'll continue saying it: "As good as the imports" just isn't good enough. Ford can't recapture significant market share now unless it's products are MORE appealing than the imports. And that will be a tough job that requires more than just a Madison Avenue marketing campaign called "Bold Moves." It's gonna require BOLD ACTION...RIGHT NOW!

 

And how do you know that import buyers aren't being swayed? I'd be really interested to read how sales of the Fusion are from repeat Ford and domestic buyers and not from previous import owners.

And why is recapturing market share so important? Market share doesn't necessarily equate to profitability. I'd much rather have a smaller company that is profitable than a larger one that was/is not. Now the questions is 'How small'?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Ford negotiate for a merger with Subaru. Heck Subaru already has a blue oval. Just keep the stars and put Ford in there somewhere. I like subies. Good cars and a good company. They haven't reached the point of quality downfall that Toyota has recently started having.

Though I really don't see a merger happening at all. I think we'll just see a smaller Ford company in the future which is fine by me. If their quality and safety keeps improving over the competition thats whats gonna matter 15 years from now too.

I still think its just too soon to judge the new plan yet. It's only been 6 months and Ford even predicted it would take somewhere in the range of 4 years.

 

Why? Who cares about the devoted Ford buyers? They can't increase market share alone. It's the buyers who have long since defected to the imports who are siphoning sales away. They're the ones who must be somehow convinced that it's time to look at Ford again.

You're joking, right?

Ford's market share continues to shrink. They're not profitable in North America right now. In England - on the other hand - Ford is the number one selling brand...and Ford of Europe is profitable. See the corollary?

 

I think he was trying to say that by knowing how many of the sales went to loyal Ford or domestic buyers, you'd know if Ford was actually making inroads with import buyers.

 

#1) You stated that I was wondering where you obtained your information that import buyers aren't being swayed.

#2) No, I'm not joking. And the corollaries are not a direct link to one another, but thank you for implying as much. How's being the #1 sales leader been working out for GM? There are still the number one sales leader in the USA are they not? In the recent past many Fords have been sold as fleet vehicles and while those reflected, at times, higher sales they have not equated to profitability. Now that Ford has turned the 'fleet' corner, I'd gladly take smaller market share with a profit for each unit.

 

There is an apparent corollary there, but that doesn't mean those two are necessarily related. You don't have to be huge to make a profit. There are plenty of companies that make a tiny fraction the number of cars that ford makes, but they're much more profitable. What matters if having a capacity that matches your market share, and that's something ford doesn't have, and that's something they're also trying to remedy. Sure there are other factors as well, but Evil Capri was right, market share isn't essential to their survival.